How do they do that? (the bonbon thread)

[Madsandersen]

As discussed earlier, I am still wondering how to get the shells like a mirror! I have tried applying a thin layer of pure cocoa butter in the molds before coloring and so, but they do not get shiny like this, for example; is it some kind of special cocoa butter mixture to achieve this shiny look?  

[Madsandersen]

55 minutes ago, Madsandersen said:

As discussed earlier, I am still wondering how to get the shells like a mirror! I have tried applying a thin layer of pure cocoa butter in the molds before coloring and so, but they do not get shiny like this, for example; is it some kind of special cocoa butter mixture to achieve this shiny look?  

 

And of course poolish the molds as first step with cotton wool - is microfiber better than cotton wool?

 

When applying colored cocoa butter to the molds, is it unnecessary to spray the molds with pure cocoa butter first? 🤔 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Madsandersen (log)

[pastrygirl]

1 hour ago, Madsandersen said:

 

When applying colored cocoa butter to the molds, is it unnecessary to spray the molds with pure cocoa butter first? 🤔 

 

 

Yes. Unnecessary. 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by pastrygirl (log)

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, Madsandersen said:

As discussed earlier, I am still wondering how to get the shells like a mirror! I have tried applying a thin layer of pure cocoa butter in the molds before coloring and so, but they do not get shiny like this, for example; is it some kind of special cocoa butter mixture to achieve this shiny look?  

 

As you can read in the thread on Andrey Dubovik's online course, there is (at least in his opinion--and he makes mirror-like chocolates all the time, even to the point of photographing himself or staff waving and having their image reflected off the shells into the camera) no secret to shiny shells. No polishing with alcohol, no spraying of cocoa butter, no polishing of the mold unless there are visible water spots. Just (!) careful attention to detail--temper the cocoa butter and try to keep it in temper, have the temperature of the room on the cool side (18-20C--though I don't think 18C is necessary because I have seen examples of others who don't work at that temp--and it makes airbrushing an excruciating job requiring near-constant use of a heat gun). My experience has been that even the shiniest bonbons can become dull if they are exposed to humidity or if the filling is something that tends to cause bloom, such as nut oils.

[Madsandersen]

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

 

As you can read in the thread on Andrey Dubovik's online course, there is (at least in his opinion--and he makes mirror-like chocolates all the time, even to the point of photographing himself or staff waving and having their image reflected off the shells into the camera) no secret to shiny shells. No polishing with alcohol, no spraying of cocoa butter, no polishing of the mold unless there are visible water spots. Just (!) careful attention to detail--temper the cocoa butter and try to keep it in temper, have the temperature of the room on the cool side (18-20C--though I don't think 18C is necessary because I have seen examples of others who don't work at that temp--and it makes airbrushing an excruciating job requiring near-constant use of a heat gun). My experience has been that even the shiniest bonbons can become dull if they are exposed to humidity or if the filling is something that tends to cause bloom, such as nut oils.

 

I am sorry for taking your time, have to be better looking for my answers elsewhere before asking!  Thanks for your reply

[Jim D.]

I don't mind sharing what I know at all, happy to do so. I just meant that if you want more details, that thread might be of some help, although there are probably as many opinions on achieving shiny chocolates as there are chocolatiers! Melissa Coppel, just to take one example, polishes her molds with alcohol. And at the opposite extreme, Jin Caldwell in Las Vegas doesn't clean her molds between uses at all.

[Madsandersen]

34 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

I don't mind sharing what I know at all, happy to do so. I just meant that if you want more details, that thread might be of some help, although there are probably as many opinions on achieving shiny chocolates as there are chocolatiers! Melissa Coppel, just to take one example, polishes her molds with alcohol. And at the opposite extreme, Jin Caldwell in Las Vegas doesn't clean her molds between uses at all.

 

Hmm.. Yes that is a big difference. I have always been told not to clean the molds with soap, because it is desired to keep the molds greased in oils or so from previous chocolates. But maybe it is better to clean them 100% with ethanol or soap and clean marks from water drops off with some cotton wool or microfiber?  

[Jim D.]

2 minutes ago, Madsandersen said:

 

Hmm.. Yes that is a big difference. I have always been told not to clean the molds with soap, because it is desired to keep the molds greased in oils or so from previous chocolates. But maybe it is better to clean them 100% with ethanol or soap and clean marks from water drops off with some cotton wool or microfiber?  

What I currently do (always subject to change as more information comes in) is to use paper towels moistened with hot water to remove as much chocolate left on the mold edges as I can (yes, I know there shouldn't be any, but... I'm still learning, and I desperately want to keep my drain clear of solidified cocoa butter), then wash the molds with a new sponge using  dishwashing liquid (Dawn, to be precise) and hot water, rinse them thoroughly in hot water, soak them a while in a solution of bleach and water (as required by the food safety regulations), and let them air-dry in a drainer. Before use I polish them with a cotton cloth. I freely admit, in view of what others have said about not bothering to polish, this may just be superstition, but I still do it.

[Madsandersen]

5 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

What I currently do (always subject to change as more information comes in) is to use paper towels moistened with hot water to remove as much chocolate left on the mold edges as I can (yes, I know there shouldn't be any, but... I'm still learning, and I desperately want to keep my drain clear of solidified cocoa butter), then wash the molds with a new sponge using  dishwashing liquid (Dawn, to be precise) and hot water, rinse them thoroughly in hot water, soak them a while in a solution of bleach and water (as required by the food safety regulations), and let them air-dry in a drainer. Before use I polish them with a cotton cloth. I freely admit, in view of what others have said about not bothering to polish, this may just be superstition, but I still do it.

 

I will try some different things then! Thanks  

[Madsandersen]

4 hours ago, Jim D. said:

What I currently do (always subject to change as more information comes in) is to use paper towels moistened with hot water to remove as much chocolate left on the mold edges as I can (yes, I know there shouldn't be any, but... I'm still learning, and I desperately want to keep my drain clear of solidified cocoa butter), then wash the molds with a new sponge using  dishwashing liquid (Dawn, to be precise) and hot water, rinse them thoroughly in hot water, soak them a while in a solution of bleach and water (as required by the food safety regulations), and let them air-dry in a drainer. Before use I polish them with a cotton cloth. I freely admit, in view of what others have said about not bothering to polish, this may just be superstition, but I still do it.

 

I just realized that my 140$ airbrush with 0,3 mm nozzle and 25 PSI was a big mistake! I am able to buy a HVLP gun with 0,8 mm nozzle for 47$ and connect it to my own big compressor, then adjust the pressure down to around 3 bar and wola!   (apparently the airbrush is sold by a car painting company, but what should that matter?)

Edited September 2, 2018 by Madsandersen (log)

[Jim D.]

2 hours ago, Madsandersen said:

 

I just realized that my 140$ airbrush with 0,3 mm nozzle and 25 PSI was a big mistake! I am able to buy a HVLP gun with 0,8 mm nozzle for 47$ and connect it to my own big compressor, then adjust the pressure down to around 3 PSI and wola!   (apparently the airbrush is sold by a car painting company, but what should that matter?)

You might want a higher PSI than 3 (check the instructions with the paint gun for a range of pressures). As to food safety issues, there are differences of opinion. The only company I know of that sells spray guns advertised as made from food-safe materials is Krea Swiss, and not only are their guns quite expensive, but they are very large and aren't recommended for cocoa butter by itself. Many chocolatiers do use ordinary paint guns and keep them (of course) only for chocolate work. When one thinks about it, there is nothing inherently less food safe about HVLP guns than airbrushes. I have a mini-gun that I have used a few times after becoming frustrated with the difficulties of keeping cocoa butter flowing from an airbrush (and my airbrush has an 0.8mm nozzle), and I have been very pleased with the spray gun. Once you get it heated up (which takes a while), it maintains the fluidity of cocoa butter much longer and really does spray! Overspray can be controlled with some adjustments--and a respirator or mask or spray booth with exhaust.

[Madsandersen]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

PSI than 3

 

Of course... I meant around 3 bar = 40-50 PSI 😅

[Madsandersen]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

You might want a higher PSI than 3 (check the instructions with the paint gun for a range of pressures). As to food safety issues, there are differences of opinion. The only company I know of that sells spray guns advertised as made from food-safe materials is Krea Swiss, and not only are their guns quite expensive, but they are very large and aren't recommended for cocoa butter by itself. Many chocolatiers do use ordinary paint guns and keep them (of course) only for chocolate work. When one thinks about it, there is nothing inherently less food safe about HVLP guns than airbrushes. I have a mini-gun that I have used a few times after becoming frustrated with the difficulties of keeping cocoa butter flowing from an airbrush (and my airbrush has an 0.8mm nozzle), and I have been very pleased with the spray gun. Once you get it heated up (which takes a while), it maintains the fluidity of cocoa butter much longer and really does spray! Overspray can be controlled with some adjustments--and a respirator or mask or spray booth with exhaust.

 

Sounds great! So you would think that it is worth a try?

[keychris]

1 hour ago, Madsandersen said:

 

Sounds great! So you would think that it is worth a try?

 

I've seen a Krea hotCHOC in action, IMHO it's for spraying cakes. We tried it on moulds and it just was spraying far too much. I definitely wouldn't buy it if you wanted to do moulds, unless someone else on here says they've managed to make it work. We only tried for less than half an hour though!

[Jim D.]

4 hours ago, Madsandersen said:

 

Sounds great! So you would think that it is worth a try?

Yes, I do. Doesn't cost all that much, and you already have a compressor.

[Madsandersen]

3 hours ago, Jim D. said:

Yes, I do. Doesn't cost all that much, and you already have a compressor.

 

I was not talking about the Krea, but this HVLP pistol with 0,8 nozzle and then connect it to my own compressor and set the pressure around 40-60 PSI. It is a pistol from a car painting company - it might just be keychris that thought I meant the Krea 😁

Edited September 3, 2018 by Madsandersen (log)

[keychris]

I did!

 

The gun you pictured is the exact one I have, works great.

[Madsandersen]

1 minute ago, keychris said:

I did!

 

The gun you pictured is the exact one I have, works great.

 

Wonderful! 

[Jim D.]

6 hours ago, Madsandersen said:

 

I was not talking about the Krea, but this HVLP pistol with 0,8 nozzle and then connect it to my own compressor and set the pressure around 40-60 PSI. It is a pistol from a car painting company - it might just be keychris that thought I meant the Krea 

 

I understood what you meant. The only further suggestion I have is that you might want a 1mm nozzle to allow for a little more throughput and a metal cup so that you don't have to be concerned about overheating the cup. But those are minor points and just my opinion. When I first got my gun, I ran some plain cocoa butter through it to make sure there was nothing in the passages.

[Madsandersen]

34 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

I understood what you meant. The only further suggestion I have is that you might want a 1mm nozzle to allow for a little more throughput and a metal cup so that you don't have to be concerned about overheating the cup. But those are minor points and just my opinion. When I first got my gun, I ran some plain cocoa butter through it to make sure there was nothing in the passages.

 

How are these made? Applying yellow, orange and red and then smudge the colors with a sponge or something?  

 

[Rajala]

Most likely brushed with something, and then a white layer airbrushed.

[Madsandersen]

2 minutes ago, Rajala said:

Most likely brushed with something, and then a white layer airbrushed.

Like using a paint brush? But how is the colors applied? In the molds first or at the brush? And how are they been mixed into each other so nicely?   

[Rajala]

Yes, a regular paint brush. Get them in different sizes and different thickness on the brush itself to get different results. Dip brush in cocoa butter, use brush in mould. Let it set before you take the next color. In this case it's probably colors without white color added, which will let them flow into each other.

 

You can also mount a small sponge brush on a tool like a Dremel to get a kind of whirlwind effect.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Rajala (log)

[gfron1]

@Madsandersen I'm not sure if you've said where you're located, but I would highly encourage you to invest in a workshop if one is available, especially an in-person (versus on-line) workshop. This forum is great for sharing information, but it's no substitute for being in a room with an experienced pastry chef who can walk you through numerous designs, and talk about equipment needs and such. I hope you've also explored the other topics here at eGullet like the troubleshooting topic, the early learning topic, and numerous topics on spray guns, cocoa butter, choosing chocolates, etc. A good starting point is the Index, although dated, is still very useful. And lastly, as a shameless plug, if you're in the United States or interested in traveling, each May many of us get together for a weekend chocolate and confections workshop. Our planning topic is HERE.

[Rajala]

I would guess Denmark based on the name and the screenshot from a Danish webshop above.