What size loaf setting to use in bread maker?

[windyacres]

How does one determine the size loaf setting to use for a bread recipe if you want to bake it in a bread machine?  My machine has 1, 1.5 and 2 pound settings.  I want to make a recipe someone gave me, but they did not specify what size loaf it makes.  I added up the grams for all the ingredients and converted that to pounds.  Came up with 1.8 pounds, but that includes the liquids, some of which I assume will evaporate.  Should I just use 2 pounds to be safe?

[rotuts]

use the largest setting

 

the machine simply changes the various times for the rise and the baking

 

nothing more.

 

you then have to make various incremental adjustments to get a dent loaf out of the machine

 

it can be done if you keep track of all your ingredients.

[windyacres]

  On 9/1/2016 at 9:00 PM, rotuts said:

use the largest setting

 

the machine simply changes the various times for the rise and the baking

 

nothing more.

 

you then have to make various incremental adjustments to get a dent loaf out of the machine

 

it can be done if you keep track of all your ingredients.

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I am somewhat of a novice.  Can you explain what a "dent" loaf is? 

 

Thanks.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I think rotuts means a "decent" loaf.  His prose can sometimes be a bit interesting to understand.

[chromedome]

I find a recipe with 3 to 3 1/2 cups of flour fills a 2-pound machine pretty completely, if that's any help. 

 

For day-to-day sandwich bread for the household, I buy used ones at the thrift store and use them on the dough cycle to mix up my dough unattended, while I work. Then I pan and bake conventionally, which neatly sidesteps the "baking-quality" issues involved in random bread machines. 

[windyacres]

  On 9/7/2016 at 6:18 AM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I think rotuts means a "decent" loaf.  His prose can sometimes be a bit interesting to understand.

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LOL.  Thanks!

[windyacres]

  On 9/7/2016 at 3:37 PM, chromedome said:

I find a recipe with 3 to 3 1/2 cups of flour fills a 2-pound machine pretty completely, if that's any help. 

 

For day-to-day sandwich bread for the household, I buy used ones at the thrift store and use them on the dough cycle to mix up my dough unattended, while I work. Then I pan and bake conventionally, which neatly sidesteps the "baking-quality" issues involved in random bread machines. 

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It seems a lot of folks use the machines only for the dough cycle.  We live in Oklahoma where it can easily reach 100 degrees on hot summer days and was hoping I could use the bread machine this summer for baking bread to avoid heating up the kitchen with the oven.  I've gotten some decent loaves out of it with recipes that use white flour along with the WW flour.  But have never had any luck with 100% WW loaves.  

 

Now that it is getting cooler, I will retry the 100% WW recipes with just using the dough cycle and baking them in the oven.

[chromedome]

The recipe I mostly bake for our daily sandwich bread is 100% whole wheat. It was a favorite of my late wife's, and I believe it came from the old DAK breadmaker bread book. She was an early adopter of bread machines, and although she didn't own a DAK she swore by their recipe book. There are still used copies out there, if you look for 'em. 

 

How are the loaves falling short? We could perhaps brainstorm a bit. 

[windyacres]

  On 9/9/2016 at 10:33 PM, chromedome said:

The recipe I mostly bake for our daily sandwich bread is 100% whole wheat. It was a favorite of my late wife's, and I believe it came from the old DAK breadmaker bread book. She was an early adopter of bread machines, and although she didn't own a DAK she swore by their recipe book. There are still used copies out there, if you look for 'em. 

 

How are the loaves falling short? We could perhaps brainstorm a bit. 

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Every loaf I have made with 100% whole wheat and using the Whole Wheat cycle have been very dense and unappealing.  Fortunately, I have a few backyard chickens that found them very appetizing.  Ha!  I even purchased vital wheat gluten as called for in the recipes and it did no good.  I tried adding a tablespoon or 2 of extra liquid if the dough seemed too dry during the mixing process.  Still no luck.  Also tried a recipe or two where the measurements were by weight. 

 

Perhaps it is just this Cuisinart machine.  Granted it is not a very expensive one.  As you mentioned, I might have better luck, just using the dough cycle and then my oven to do the baking, but was hoping this bread machine would allow me to have homemade bread without having to use my oven during the hot summers we have here in Oklahoma.  Sigh.

[cyalexa]

  On 9/11/2016 at 7:21 PM, windyacres said:

was hoping this bread machine would allow me to have homemade bread without having to use my oven during the hot summers we have here in Oklahoma.

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Search bread in the cuisinart combo steam/convection oven thread. I just made my 100% WW recipe in 2 smaller pans, like Shelby and Kayb. I increased everything by 30% but it was too wet so will decrease the water a bit next time. Yes, I know, you do not have a cuisinart combo steam/convection oven but after you read this thread you will probably buy one! I use it instead of my wall oven for anything that will fit. I does put out a bit of heat/steam into the kitchen but not a lot and things generally are done much more quickely than in a conventional oven. 

[andiesenji]

I bake a lot in the breadmakers - as well as use them just on the dough cycle.  I have a larger machine, up to 3 pound loaf.

 

At the end of the FINAL mixing/kneading/rising cycles - I pull the dough out of the pan, remove the paddles and slap it back into the pan.

At this point you should be able to feel the dough exhibit the "give" that should be there in a properly hydrated and correctly yeasted dough.

I don't like 100% whole wheat breads.  They are too dense and do take longer to bake and I use bread flour for 1/4 of the total flour amount.  I add vital wheat gluten and dried whole milk.  And I add more yeast than the recipe specifies so the total is 1 1/2 times what would be right for a non whole wheat loaf.

 

I get great rise, a fine crumb and what I consider perfect crust.  

 

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by andiesenji (log)

[andiesenji]

This is the recipe I have been using for several years.  For the bigger machine I doubled the recipe.  (Oster)

After the three kneading cycles I pull the dough out, cut off about one-third which goes into an oiled plastic bag and into the fridge.

I sort of reshape the remaining dough and after removing the paddles, slap it back into the machine for the final rise and bake.

 

The original recipe works fine in a 2-pound machine - I have several machine and use the smaller one occasionally.

 

I looked up my notes and for the regular sized loaf, I used 2 1/2 cups of whole wheat flour and 1 cup of bread flour.  

I used TWO rounded teaspoons of yeast.  2 rounded teaspoons of vital wheat gluten and 2 rounded tablespoons of whole milk powder - You can order it from King Arthur but if you have a market that carries Hispanic foods, they carry a product called "Nido" which is whole milk powder.  The regular supermarkets around here don't carry it but the Mexican supermarket does.

 

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/100-whole-wheat-bread-for-the-bread-machine-recipe

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by andiesenji (log)

[windyacres]

  On 9/11/2016 at 11:15 PM, andiesenji said:

I bake a lot in the breadmakers - as well as use them just on the dough cycle.  I have a larger machine, up to 3 pound loaf.

 

At the end of the FINAL mixing/kneading/rising cycles - I pull the dough out of the pan, remove the paddles and slap it back into the pan.

At this point you should be able to feel the dough exhibit the "give" that should be there in a properly hydrated and correctly yeasted dough.

I don't like 100% whole wheat breads.  They are too dense and do take longer to bake and I use bread flour for 1/4 of the total flour amount.  I add vital wheat gluten and dried whole milk.  And I add more yeast than the recipe specifies so the total is 1 1/2 times what would be right for a non whole wheat loaf.

 

I get great rise, a fine crumb and what I consider perfect crust.  

 

 

 

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Beautiful!  This is exactly what I'm trying to accomplish.  I will try your suggestions.  Looks like this may have some nuts in it.  I like bread with nuts and different types of seeds, too.  Question:  What is the advantage of adding dry milk? 

[windyacres]

  On 9/11/2016 at 11:42 PM, andiesenji said:

This is the recipe I have been using for several years.  For the bigger machine I doubled the recipe.  (Oster)

After the three kneading cycles I pull the dough out, cut off about one-third which goes into an oiled plastic bag and into the fridge.

I sort of reshape the remaining dough and after removing the paddles, slap it back into the machine for the final rise and bake.

 

The original recipe works fine in a 2-pound machine - I have several machine and use the smaller one occasionally.

 

I looked up my notes and for the regular sized loaf, I used 2 1/2 cups of whole wheat flour and 1 cup of bread flour.  

I used TWO rounded teaspoons of yeast.  2 rounded teaspoons of vital wheat gluten and 2 rounded tablespoons of whole milk powder - You can order it from King Arthur but if you have a market that carries Hispanic foods, they carry a product called "Nido" which is whole milk powder.  The regular supermarkets around here don't carry it but the Mexican supermarket does.

 

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/100-whole-wheat-bread-for-the-bread-machine-recipe

 

 

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Ooops, I didn't see this post until after I had responded to your first one.  Thanks so much for the recommendations on the King Arthur recipe.  I have heard they have really good recipes.  I believe the only dry milk I have seen in the supermarkets here is the non-fat variety.  I assume that being "whole milk" is important as you made a distinction there.  I asked in my reply to your other post about what the milk powder adds to the loaf.  Could you elaborate on that?  Thanks for your help.

[windyacres]

  On 9/11/2016 at 8:41 PM, cyalexa said:

Search bread in the cuisinart combo steam/convection oven thread. I just made my 100% WW recipe in 2 smaller pans, like Shelby and Kayb. I increased everything by 30% but it was too wet so will decrease the water a bit next time. Yes, I know, you do not have a cuisinart combo steam/convection oven but after you read this thread you will probably buy one! I use it instead of my wall oven for anything that will fit. I does put out a bit of heat/steam into the kitchen but not a lot and things generally are done much more quickely than in a conventional oven. 

Expand  

Thanks, I will take a look. 

[chromedome]

It's possible the whole-wheat flour here in Canada is higher in gluten than what you're using.

 

My usual loaf is a sandwich bread, so it's enriched with egg, milk, butter and honey; sometimes (depending on my flour and how it behaves) I'll add a dash of vital wheat gluten and a spoonful of lecithin granules. I often replace up to a third of the whole-wheat flour with a random mixture of other flours out of my cupboard (rye, buckwheat, corn flour, oat flour, kamut flour etc), in which case I definitely add gluten. 

 

Have you tried using the basic setting, instead of the ww setting? It's possible your bread might be over-proofing and then losing volume (the ww cycle usually extends the rising time). Your nose will usually tell you if it's over-fermented, the dough will develop a sour and faintly alcoholic smell and the finished loaf will be dense and coarse. 

 

[andiesenji]

First, there are no nuts in the loaf.  The whole wheat flour I used for that loaf has some "cracked" wheat bits in it.  

 

I use whole milk powder because it retards staling in bread without any of the chemical additives used in commercial bread, it improves the flavor and it produces an evenly browned crust that is tender but still sturdy.  For this type of bread I do not want a hard, crackly crust - as I would want on an artisan loaf, because I want a crust that cuts cleanly.

 

I have tried low-fat milk and the results are not the same.  King Arthur sells Baker's Special Dry Milk.  Most health food stores carry dried whole milk but you can also order it from Amazon - they carry Peak Dry Whole Milk Powder.  

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by andiesenji (log)

[lindag]

  On 9/11/2016 at 7:21 PM, windyacres said:

Every loaf I have made with 100% whole wheat and using the Whole Wheat cycle have been very dense and unappealing.  Fortunately, I have a few backyard chickens that found them very appetizing.  Ha!  I even purchased vital wheat gluten as called for in the recipes and it did no good.  I tried adding a tablespoon or 2 of extra liquid if the dough seemed too dry during the mixing process.  Still no luck.  Also tried a recipe or two where the measurements were by weight. 

 

Perhaps it is just this Cuisinart machine.  Granted it is not a very expensive one.  As you mentioned, I might have better luck, just using the dough cycle and then my oven to do the baking, but was hoping this bread machine would allow me to have homemade bread without having to use my oven during the hot summers we have here in Oklahoma.  Sigh.

Expand  

 

 

You may want to try King Arthur Flour's recipe for 100% whole wheat bread, it is actually their most popular recipe so, clearly, it turns out well for most bakers.

It's here:

 

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/100-whole-wheat-bread-for-the-bread-machine-recipe

[Anna N]

  On 9/13/2016 at 4:15 PM, lindag said:

 

 

You may want to try King Arthur Flour's recipe for 100% whole wheat bread, it is actually their most popular recipe so, clearly, it turns out well for most bakers.

It's here:

 

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/100-whole-wheat-bread-for-the-bread-machine-recipe

Expand  

I think that's the same recipe that Andi linked to above isn't?

[andiesenji]

  On 9/12/2016 at 9:14 PM, chromedome said:

It's possible the whole-wheat flour here in Canada is higher in gluten than what you're using.

 

My usual loaf is a sandwich bread, so it's enriched with egg, milk, butter and honey; sometimes (depending on my flour and how it behaves) I'll add a dash of vital wheat gluten and a spoonful of lecithin granules. I often replace up to a third of the whole-wheat flour with a random mixture of other flours out of my cupboard (rye, buckwheat, corn flour, oat flour, kamut flour etc), in which case I definitely add gluten. 

 

Have you tried using the basic setting, instead of the ww setting? It's possible your bread might be over-proofing and then losing volume (the ww cycle usually extends the rising time). Your nose will usually tell you if it's over-fermented, the dough will develop a sour and faintly alcoholic smell and the finished loaf will be dense and coarse. 

 

Expand  

That is so.  I use the regular - basic setting.  The only time I use the WW setting is when I am baking one of the intentionally dense fruit and nut loaves or similar like the "Ezekial bread" loaves.  And those are so dense and so wet that after the baking cycle ends, I reset it for "Bake only" for 45 minutes and check the internal temp with my Thermopen until it registeres at least 210° F. in the center.

 

I should add that I routinely use a remote probe thermometer when I am baking a new recipe with which I am unfamiliar, particularly when they contain different ingredients that I have not used previously.

 

Setting the alarm for 205° so I can check the loaf often shows that the cycle ends well before the internal temps have reached the optimal point.

Edited September 14, 2016 by andiesenji (log)

[lindag]

  On 9/13/2016 at 6:28 PM, Anna N said:

I think that's the same recipe that Andi linked to above isn't?

Expand  

 

Indeed you are right.

That's what happens when one doesn't read all of the thread.

Andi's post was more helpful than mine.

[Anna N]

  On 9/14/2016 at 1:18 PM, lindag said:

 

Indeed you are right.

That's what happens when one doesn't read all of the thread.

Andi's post was more helpful than mine.

Expand  

I can be just as guilty.  

[andiesenji]

  On 9/14/2016 at 1:18 PM, lindag said:

 

Indeed you are right.

That's what happens when one doesn't read all of the thread.

Andi's post was more helpful than mine.

Expand  

it is the thought that counts!  The desire to help.  Sometimes readers skip over parts of a post and don't see the link.  I know I have done.  It doesn't hurt to repost.

[windyacres]

  On 9/12/2016 at 9:14 PM, chromedome said:

It's possible the whole-wheat flour here in Canada is higher in gluten than what you're using.

 

My usual loaf is a sandwich bread, so it's enriched with egg, milk, butter and honey; sometimes (depending on my flour and how it behaves) I'll add a dash of vital wheat gluten and a spoonful of lecithin granules. I often replace up to a third of the whole-wheat flour with a random mixture of other flours out of my cupboard (rye, buckwheat, corn flour, oat flour, kamut flour etc), in which case I definitely add gluten. 

 

Have you tried using the basic setting, instead of the ww setting? It's possible your bread might be over-proofing and then losing volume (the ww cycle usually extends the rising time). Your nose will usually tell you if it's over-fermented, the dough will develop a sour and faintly alcoholic smell and the finished loaf will be dense and coarse. 

 

Expand  

I am in awe of your baking expertise! It will be years before I feel competent enough to "add random flours out of my cupboard"!  Ah, but I am determined to get this problem whipped.

 

I am surprised that you mentioned using the basic setting instead of the ww setting.  That has crossed my mind.  I recall checking on one loaf of ww bread while it was rising.  The loaf after the first rise cycle was at least an inch taller than the finished product.  When I peeked at it during the first rise and saw how beautiful the loaf looked, I was so excited.  Then when it was finished baking it was an inch shorter and very dense.  I'm not enough of a bread expert to know what over-proofing the dough might cause.  I thought that over-proofing would only affect the second rise cycle, after which the loaf bakes.  I guess that is not the case?

[windyacres]

  On 9/12/2016 at 11:16 PM, andiesenji said:

First, there are no nuts in the loaf.  The whole wheat flour I used for that loaf has some "cracked" wheat bits in it.  

 

I use whole milk powder because it retards staling in bread without any of the chemical additives used in commercial bread, it improves the flavor and it produces an evenly browned crust that is tender but still sturdy.  For this type of bread I do not want a hard, crackly crust - as I would want on an artisan loaf, because I want a crust that cuts cleanly.

 

I have tried low-fat milk and the results are not the same.  King Arthur sells Baker's Special Dry Milk.  Most health food stores carry dried whole milk but you can also order it from Amazon - they carry Peak Dry Whole Milk Powder.  

 

 

Expand  

Thank you.  I have noticed that homemade bread does tend to get stale much quicker.  Therefore, I feel I have to eat it all within a day or two.  Certainly not good for if you want to limit carbs to reasonable intake!