Pâte de Fruits (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies) (Part 2)

EsaK · May 24, 2020

20 hours ago, Jim D. said:

Last time I thought I had figured peach out (bought tree-ripe peaches and roasted them, sought out a peach liqueur--which by itself was delicious, purchased a "peach nectar" that had spectacular Amazon reviews, and got some dried peaches), I ended up adding some apricot at the last minute to provide some flavor. So you will understand that I look forward to your experiments. I am surprised pectin is difficult to find. Aren't jams and jellies made in Finland? You may have to make your own pectin. That will test your dedication to this endeavor!

Jim, you've really taken testing to a whole another level 😄I'll see what I can do but as said, please don't hold your breath. I wouldn't bet on myself being able to solve the peach PdF matter.

Jams and jellies are made here, sure, but I guess people use something else to make them? Grocery stores for example carry pouches, some of which have carrageenan, some xanthan etc as the jellying or jamming agent. There's also one that has pectin, but it also has already sugar, apple acid, natrium benzoate and benzoate-acid in it. I think I'll just order it online sometime so I get pure pectin and don't have to guess the amounts.

A simple agar "PdF" made with peach puree, little dextrose and lime juice already shows that you need something to punch up the peach flavor, as Jim and Kerry suggest.

Rajala · June 12, 2021

I planned to make a rhubarb "PDF", and this happened? Any ideas? The only think I can think of is that the rhubarb reacts with pectin some how, but like what? Everything just turned foamy. With that said, I just used the juice of the rhubarb and guess that plays part in this. I don't want the texture of all the "threads" in the rhubarb in my PDF. Don't have store bought purée at the moment.

**Jim D.** · June 12, 2021

5 hours ago, Rajala said:

I planned to make a rhubarb "PDF", and this happened? Any ideas? The only think I can think of is that the rhubarb reacts with pectin some how, but like what? Everything just turned foamy. With that said, I just used the juice of the rhubarb and guess that plays part in this. I don't want the texture of all the "threads" in the rhubarb in my PDF. Don't have store bought purée at the moment.

I made a rhubarb PDF recently, using both commercially made rhubarb purée and some fresh rhubarb I purchased locally. I was using Pomona's pectin. Mine turned out without any issues such as yours. Since commercial purées (like Boiron) are used for PDF a lot, I don't understand what happened to yours. As rhubarb is low in natural pectin, you may have to use more pectin powder (or add another fruit, such as apple or pear, to provide pectin). In regard to the rhubarb strings, I have not found that to be a problem. If it is cooked long enough, they more or less dissolve. You could always use an immersion blender to smooth it out.

Rajala · June 12, 2021

9 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

I made a rhubarb PDF recently, using both commercially made rhubarb purée and some fresh rhubarb I purchased locally. I was using Pomona's pectin. Mine turned out without any issues such as yours. Since commercial purées (like Boiron) are used for PDF a lot, I don't understand what happened to yours. As rhubarb is low in natural pectin, you may have to use more pectin powder (or add another fruit, such as apple or pear, to provide pectin). In regard to the rhubarb strings, I have not found that to be a problem. If it is cooked long enough, they more or less dissolve. You could always use an immersion blender to smooth it out.

Yeah, it's super strange. I dunno what happened. I bought some more rhubarb now and will try again with all of it and run it with the immersion blender as you suggest.

Rajala · June 13, 2021

Second attempt went better. I still want to understand what went wrong with the first one though.

Rajala · October 1, 2021

So, I got a guitar cutter. The standard big size (whatever that means). How much product will one need to fill a full frame that's 1 cm high? The cutting area is 36x36 cm. How do you guys usually do?

https://pavonitalia.com/professional/en/catalog/product/view/id/2997/s/chitarra/category/57/

Rajala · October 6, 2021

Just to update here if anyone else have this question; just take the whole kg of puré and use the recipe from Boiron or whatever. It was the right amount.

I made a pdf with green apple, 300 grams caramelized sugar (1050 in total), cinnamon, cardamom, vanilla, and some butter essence

Rajala · November 4, 2021

Okay, I will continue my monologue here with a new question; PDF with two different layers? Is it safe to pour hot PDF from a saucepan over a PDF that is already set? I mean, I guess so but it feels like the heat potentially could melt some of the PDF its poured on? Maybe I'm overthinking things here. 😂

Kerry Beal · November 4, 2021

1 hour ago, Rajala said:

Okay, I will continue my monologue here with a new question; PDF with two different layers? Is it safe to pour hot PDF from a saucepan over a PDF that is already set? I mean, I guess so but it feels like the heat potentially could melt some of the PDF its poured on? Maybe I'm overthinking things here. 😂

Yes you can - PDF made with apple pectin and set with acid won't melt with heat.

Rajala · November 4, 2021

3 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Yes you can - PDF made with apple pectin and set with acid won't melt with heat.

Thanks. I'm going to try when I get my frames delivered.

What about citrus pectin btw? I don't have any apple pectin but I have citrus, slow set (not sure if citrus or not), and NH.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Rajala (log)

Rajala · January 15, 2022

Has anyone managed to get a pdf crystalized? I made a pdf like two weeks ago and covered it in saran wrap. The top of it now had a crust of sugar, really strange? I guess it could be some kind of "freak accident," because I've never seen this before.

marialma · August 6, 2022

Hope I'm not just reviving a dead thread here!

What do you guys do with failed PDF batches?

I tried to make a PDF last night with a melon that I wasn't so keen on the texture of. I pureed it, used the Boiron ratios as a guide and scaled the recipe down to the amount of puree I had. However, it came out with a really sticky chewing texture that kind of reminds me of cheap caramel candies. I think my mistake was that I cooked it to 80 brix instead of 75 (partly because I misremembered the numbers) and maybe when I added in the citric acid in water, didn't add enough liquid to drop the brix back down.

The texture is kind of ... it's not unpleasant but it's not PDF. I don't want to just throw it out but I'm also not sure what to do with it. Can I cook it back down into something else? Would it work if I sliced it up and stuffed it into pastries?

kimmiq · January 3

I tried running a search and googling, but luck. Has anyone here made a persimmon pate de fruit? any tips? thanks!

Kerry Beal · January 3

I haven't - but I'd probably use the basic Boiron recipes and see which fruit puree the texture is most equivalent to.

Linking to the way earlier post of the file of Boiron recipes - sadly can't figure out how to post a PDF!

link to pdf of PDF

Elle Bee · January 4

I made seven flavors of pâtes de fruits for the holidays: Morello cherry, guava, pineapple, Williams pear, blood orange, passion fruit, and cassis. All made with Ravifruit purees except for the Cassis, which was Boiron. I used the old version of the Boiron formulas, scaled to fit my 12x12 removable bottom cake pans. Although they all turned out well (good texture, everybody loved them), I was disappointed in the flavor of the passion fruit and blood orange ones.

Some back story before I get to my actual question:

In years past, I've ordered my purees from Perfect Puree of Napa Valley. Every puree I've had from them has been great (except maybe the carmelized pineapple, which is a little... odd). I especially love their concentrated passion fruit and blood orange purees for delicious, intensely flavored PdFs. My sole complaint about Perfect Puree over the years has been their ridiculously astronomical shipping costs. This year I decided I'd had enough aggravation about that for one lifetime and so I chose to order purees from l'Epicerie instead.

[EDITED TO ADD: Wait... did I say l'Epicerie??? Sheesh. I must have been really tired when I wrote this post. 😂 I don't think l'Epicerie even sells fruit purees! (Although they do have a lot of other great stuff, and are my usual source for PdF pectin). Anyway, I ordered these frozen fruit purees from Gourmet Foodstore. Which has a great selection, reasonable shipping prices, and prompt delivery, as I stated below. I will definitely be ordering from them again. Sorry for the error.]

Quality products, shipped fast at a reasonable cost—I'm a happy ~~l'Epicerie~~ Gourmet Foodstore customer. I knew Boiron made a concentrated blood orange puree and that's what I planned to order. Unfortunately it was out of stock so I opted for Ravifruit's unconcentrated one and proceeded to improvise. In their formula for blood orange PdF (which uses a pear "basis puree"), Boiron has a footnote recommending that 10% of the blood orange puree called for in the recipe be in the form of concentrate. My scaled down version of the formula called for 580g of blood orange puree. 10% of that weight is (roughly) 60g, so I weighed out 520g of the unconcentrated puree to use as is, and then "made" a concentrate by reducing 180g of the unconcentrated puree to 60g. I did this in the microwave with the intention that the reduction would taste less "cooked." The end result was that my concentrated puree tasted... okay. Not terrible, certainly more intense than the unconcentrated puree, but definitely not the bright, tart/sweet, intensely fruity flavor of Perfect Puree's blood orange concentrate. With a much duller color.

The blood orange PdFs I made with it were also... okay. Pleasant enough, identifiably orange-y, but with no real "punch," so pretty boring. The question is: in the absence of the Boiron (or some other commercially prepared) concentrate), is there anything I could have done differently to achieve a better outcome? Would it have worked to use 100% blood orange puree instead of using the basis puree? I suppose it's idle speculation at this point since I simply won't do it again without a proper concentrate available, but I'm curious nonetheless.

In the meantime, here's a gratuitous photo of my 6-year-old granddaughter who loves nothing better than to help me pack pâtes de fruits and wrap caramels, and is very serious about having scrupulously clean hands when she does so.

Edited February 4 by Elle Bee
Error correction (wrong vendor specified) (log)

Kerry Beal · January 5

Rotovap or vacuum microwave?

Sorry - being a bit of an ass - but perhaps adding some freeze dried fruit powder to the un-concentrated juice to punch up the flavour?

Beautiful looking product by the way!

Edited January 5 by Kerry Beal (log)

JeanneCake · January 5

were you ordering Perfect Puree directly from them?

I haven't made PdF in a few years, but I've been using Ponthier brand purees for a few years and their flavors are intense and I've had excellent luck with them (for what I'm doing). Is there a bakery or caterer (even your favorite bar ) you are on friendly terms with who might be willing to order (perfect puree) purees for you? If you are near to Boston, I'll order it for you.

Rajala · January 11

Has anyone tried to make a PDF with a Thermomix? I stumbled upon an ancient post by Kriss Harvey on Instagram, where he wrote about that. I find the concept interesting.

Kerry Beal · January 11

11 minutes ago, Rajala said:

Has anyone tried to make a PDF with a Thermomix? I stumbled upon an ancient post by Kriss Harvey on Instagram, where he wrote about that. I find the concept interesting.

Can’t do caramel I know - can you link me the Kriss’s post?

Rajala · January 11

4 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Can’t do caramel I know - can you link me the Kriss’s post?

For sure! He basically wrote the whole instructions available in the caption. But was just curious to see if anyone here had tried it. Feels like it would be pretty straightforward?

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhz7DUlgx7e/

Elle Bee · January 20

On 1/4/2024 at 8:13 PM, JeanneCake said:

were you ordering Perfect Puree directly from them?

I haven't made PdF in a few years, but I've been using Ponthier brand purees for a few years and their flavors are intense and I've had excellent luck with them (for what I'm doing). Is there a bakery or caterer (even your favorite bar ) you are on friendly terms with who might be willing to order (perfect puree) purees for you? If you are near to Boston, I'll order it for you.

Yes, I was ordering directly from Perfect Puree. Their products are so great, and I can't comprehend why they set their shipping costs so high... unless maybe they just want to discourage smaller orders? No idea.

Thanks for the tip about Ponthier—I will give them a try! Your suggestion about establishing a friendly relationship with a bakery/caterer/bar is a good one and something I was seriously considering prior to the pandemic. Seems like a good time to revive that idea now. I do know there's a local distributor here in the metro area and I could get it from them if I would just get around to getting a resale number so they will sell to me. Honestly that's probably the best and easiest option, and no doubt would save me some money as well. Time to stop procrastinating, I think.

@Kerry Beal I hadn't thought of using freeze dried powder—great idea, thank you!

Elle Bee · February 4

On 1/11/2024 at 5:21 AM, Rajala said:

Has anyone tried to make a PDF with a Thermomix? I stumbled upon an ancient post by Kriss Harvey on Instagram, where he wrote about that. I find the concept interesting.

Not sure how I missed this question earlier (probably packing candy boxes to mail 😋). I don't have a Thermomix, but I'm super intrigued because I do have one of these Ball FreshTech Automatic Jam and Jelly Maker (eG-friendly Amazon.com link). They don't appear to be available on Amazon right now, but I thought I'd provide the link in case anyone is interested in looking at the reviews. Anyway....

I bought it a long time ago with the idea that I would actually make jam, and despite continuing to have that same optimistic idea every single summer... I have used it exactly once. For making blood orange marmalade, which turned out great. That was maybe 8 years ago. Then I packed the thing up for a move, and never thought about it again until right this minute.

Now I'm thinking it would be worth experimenting to see if I can make it work for cooking smaller PdF batches than I normally make in my large copper jam pan. What I love about the Ball jam maker is that it does all the stirring, but what I did NOT love about it is that it's one of those overly automated appliances with a bunch of built-in programs. To be fair, I have the same objection about our Breville toaster oven and Fagor multi-cooker, and when I use those, I just ignore all the pre-set options and manually choose whatever I want to do. What I can't remember about the Ball cooker is whether the user is able to override the pre-programmed options. (I also have the Ball automatic canner for jam, and have the same irritation with that device. It does work, but you must choose one of the built-in programs to use it, because there is no manual setting option.)

But I digress. I'm going to get this little jam maker out of our storage room and see if I can make it cook some PdF.

Rajala · February 4

5 minutes ago, Elle Bee said:

But I digress. I'm going to get this little jam maker out of our storage room and see if I can make it cook some PdF.

Let us know how it goes. I haven't tried making a PDF with the Thermomix jsut yet, even though I made one yesterday. Forgot about this haha. But I'm going to try one day!

Btw, blood orange marmalade sounds delicious!

Elle Bee · February 4

12 minutes ago, Rajala said:

Let us know how it goes. I haven't tried making a PDF with the Thermomix jsut yet, even though I made one yesterday. Forgot about this haha. But I'm going to try one day!

Btw, blood orange marmalade sounds delicious!

I will definitely report back!

The blood orange marmalade really was wonderful. Funny story: I had just recently met and started dating my significant other at the time and he offered to help make the marmalade. His kitchen "thing" is pretty much limited to cooking meat (which he is really good at), and since he had no idea what he was getting into, he generously offered to juice all the oranges. I had ten oranges sitting next to the juicer, so after he juiced those he was like, "Done!"... only to discover there was a huge box of them on the other side of the counter and we'd need to juice ALL of them. To his credit, he persevered, and he has continued to persevere with my projects ever since. He's a keeper. ❤️

Rajala · March 20

Did anyone ever make a PDF made out of pomegranate? I'm thinking if I should add some other fruit/berry to the mixture. It's not listed in the old PDF (the real PDF haha) from Boiron that's been shared over the years.

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Pâte de Fruits (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies) (Part 2)

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