Indian Vegetables

[Thanks for the Crepes]

Today I was in an Indian grocer, and ran across this vegetable not for the first time. Does anyone know how to cook it, or some great recipes?

 

It seems to be available pretty much year round. They finally had a sign with the name and price, which was dudi at 99 cents a pound. Google corrects me to dudhi. Is it squash?

 

I can also get this,  and this, but have no idea what to do with them. Anyone care to share knowledge and ideas?

 

Also, yah! I noticed that they had dosa and idly batters in the refrigerator case from my favorite southern Indian restaurant that's not far from this market. It's $3.99 for a short quart, probably to give headroom so gases from the ferment don't explode the container. Some of the tops were bulging. I have no equipment to steam idly, but in the future, I might be able to make dosa at home. My attempts at making my own at home with raw ingredients have been pretty dismal and very disappointing compared with what I can get in the restaurant.

[Duvel]

Calabash.

[liuzhou]

The dudhi is calabash or bottle gourd. It isn't specifically Indian. It grows all over Asia, in Europe and the USA. It is thought to have originated in South Africa. Round here it is most often used in soups and hotpots.

 

36 minutes ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

I can also get this,  and this, but have no idea what to do with them. Anyone care to share knowledge and ideas?

 

The first link in the above quote is to luffa or loofah, one of my favourite vegetables. Again, not specifically Indian.

 

 

I like it steamed with garlic.

 

Steamed Luffa with Garlic

It is often stir fried with eggs, too.

 

Your third link seems to be the same as your first. Was their a third vegetable you wanted to ask about?

 

 

Edited April 20, 2016 by liuzhou (log)

[Lisa Shock]

The one with the really textured skin is bitter melon. I suggest slicing very thinly and cooking with other foods. Take a look at recipes for it, there is often a soaking step, do not omit that. It's really, really, bitter. In Japan, they add it to scrambled eggs. HERE is a recipe for a Japanese style salad featuring bitter melon.

[Lisa Shock]

The third link opens to show this image:

[liuzhou]

9 minutes ago, Lisa Shock said:

The third link opens to show this image:

 

 

Not for me

 

Anyway, that is bitter gourd/ bitter melon/ balsam pear. Again not Indian, although popular there. Usually stir fried with beef here. I've posted it more than once on the dinner threads.

 

Edited April 20, 2016 by liuzhou (log)

[huiray]

As has been mentioned, none of them are exclusively "Indian", although they are of course used in dishes from that sub-continent. Have you not seen them in Chinese/"Asian" groceries as well?

 

16 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

Today I was in an Indian grocer, and ran across this vegetable not for the first time. Does anyone know how to cook it, or some great recipes?

 

It seems to be available pretty much year round. They finally had a sign with the name and price, which was dudi at 99 cents a pound. Google corrects me to dudhi. Is it squash?

 

Commonly also known as opo squash a.k.a. 浦瓜 (pou4 gwaa1) as the Chinese name I know it by, with various other names for it around the globe also. Closely related/a variant of "fuzzy squash"/"fuzzy melon", which I have also posted frequently about (just search for "fuzzy squash" on eGullet). I buy both from my usual Chinese grocer and cook them similarly. I find opo squash to be more spongy in texture than fuzzy squash. I cook them in soups commonly, sometimes stir-fries; or, rarely, stuffed. I've posted about opo squash on the grocery topic several times; and shown some soups I made with it on the cooking topics - e.g. here, here, here (scroll down). There are others.

 

 

 

16 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

I can also get this

 

Luffa acutangula.

As has also been mentioned, a widely used vegetable in E and SE Asian cuisines also. See the wikipedia article (embedded link above) for its many names. I've talked about this (a.k.a. 勝瓜 (sing1/sing3 gwaa1) (or also, 絲瓜 (si1 gwaa1); a.k.a. "angled loofah" and other names) on the grocery thread several times (see here for an example; scroll down); and also on the cooking threads repeatedly. I like this in soups, and occasionally stir-fries and a few other rare ways (for me). I usually take the ribs off (with a potato peeler; done in a minute or less) before slicing up and cooking. See here (scroll down), here, here, here, here for soup examples; and here, here, here for stir-fry examples.

 

 

 

16 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

and this

 

Yes, bitter melon, as others have said. This variety, however, is one that I (personally, perhaps) associate more with - yes - "Indian" dishes or "Indian-influenced" dishes (including in SE Asia) than with E/SE Asian Chinese-influenced cooking, although it is not unknown. The variety of bitter melon used in the latter cuisines tends more (in my experience) to be the much larger, less-convoluted-ridged cousins of the variety you ask about. The one you post is generally around 4-6 inches in length, whereas the more common varieties used in Chinese/Japanese (and associated cuisines) tend to be, say, 8-14 inches in length and much lighter green in color, like the ones another poster above exemplified in a dish. (See here, too, for example) I dislike this "Indian" variety myself. It's much more bitter than its larger cousin. I don't think I've posted about the "Indian" variety here, whereas I've posted about the larger variety here on eG including the commonly-done beef & bitter melon stir-fry dish.

Edited April 21, 2016 by huiray
Added a couple more dish examples (log)

[Thanks for the Crepes]

Thank you so much, everyone for your information and links! 

 

@huiray, weirdly, I have not seen any of the three veggies in question at my Korean owned Pan-Asian grocery. They carry Chinese, Japanese, Thai, and of course lots of Korean products, but not these particular vegetables. The Indian grocer only carries the smaller variety of bitter gourd/melon. If you are in, or have access to Indianapolis, they have a population approximately 5-1/2 times the size of Cary. There were only about 40,000 people here when I came in 1986, and it was quite the monoculture. I just feel lucky that I have access to some of the things that I do now, so I am delighted that different ingredients that are challenging and interesting to me are showing up all the time. I know it's very limited compared to some of the members who live in larger cities, but I am embracing and trying to learn about what I can get here. I am like a kid in a candy store when I see vegetables I have never seen in my life before. 

 

I like bitter balanced out with other flavors up to a reasonable point, so it will be an exciting adventure to try these new-to-me items with expert help from the eG community.

 

I have a lot to go on now, and many sources of information to explore. 

[GlorifiedRice]

Make Dudhi Halwa, with the Bottle gourd...

 

However the craziest Indian Veggie is the DRUMSTICK. AKA Saragva Sing.

You eat the insides, like artichokes, the outside is tough.

[huiray]

Drumsticks are also used in various other cuisines in SE Asia.

 

My mother (Chinese-Hakka-Nyonya) was inordinately fond of them. I, less so.

[Thanks for the Crepes]

Thanks @GlorifiedRiceand @huiray. I think this might be the drumstick vegetable. I will look for it next time I get to an Indian grocer. We have several around here, but I don't recall seeing it before. Since they are so long I think I would remember, but perhaps not.

 

I would never have thought of making a dessert from dudhi, so good idea, but for all I know, all halwa is not sweet. I really like the carrot version at the restaurant.

 

I so appreciate any information on Indian vegetables and tips on turning them into something delicious. I'm just recently seeing the ingredients, so have not had a reason to learn about them before.

[pastryani]

The first vegetable ("bottle gourd") is called "laukhi" in Hindi.  You can make it as a vegetable="curry"="sabzi", or along with lentils like this:

 

http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/lauki-chana-dal-curry-recipe/

 

I haven't made the second one, and bitter melon lives up to its name and is far too bitter for me no matter how it's prepared.  It really is an acquired taste.

 

Btw, you don't need an idly mold to make idlys.  If you have small metal bowls and a steamer setup that would work too (just not as pretty).  The batters work pretty well, but try to avoid a container that's bursting at the seams as that means it's over-fermented. 

 

 

[huiray]

3 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

I think this might be the drumstick vegetable.

 

Yes, that's it.

 

Here in Indy they are available from time to time at various Indian groceries. Not something that is always there in the bins or shelves.

 

Note that the leaves are also edible and used in many cuisines.  Somewhere here on eGullet I've posted a Pinoy soup I made using Moringa leaves...and the leaves are even less frequently found in these parts than the drumsticks.

Edited April 22, 2016 by huiray (log)

[huiray]

36 minutes ago, huiray said:

Somewhere here on eGullet I've posted a Pinoy soup I made using Moringa leaves...

 

Found it. Lookee here.

 

I think one take-away, again, is that drumsticks, too, and the plant products thereof, are NOT exclusively "Indian".

Edited April 22, 2016 by huiray (log)

[Thanks for the Crepes]

2 hours ago, pastryani said:

The first vegetable ("bottle gourd") is called "laukhi" in Hindi.  You can make it as a vegetable="curry"="sabzi", or along with lentils like this:

 

http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/lauki-chana-dal-curry-recipe/

 

I haven't made the second one, and bitter melon lives up to its name and is far too bitter for me no matter how it's prepared.  It really is an acquired taste.

 

Btw, you don't need an idly mold to make idlys.  If you have small metal bowls and a steamer setup that would work too (just not as pretty).  The batters work pretty well, but try to avoid a container that's bursting at the seams as that means it's over-fermented. 

 

 

 

Thank you very much for this links on the recipes for laukhi/dudhi/bottle gourd, and also for the advice on bitter melon. Also for your recommendation for idly prep. I have stainless ramekins and a stainless expandable steamer I can put into a variety of my stainless pots. Perhaps some of my small glass prep/serving bowls might also work in the lower temps in a steamer, and result in a similarly shaped product to the traditional equipment. So I really appreciate all of your interesting ideas.

 

I did think that all fermented products continued to produce gases, so if you care to expand on your thoughts about a bulging container being a reject, I would read with interest. I would not be surprised if employees came around to "burp" these tightly sealed Chinese takeout style quart containers periodically. I know I can't throw a yeast dough for fermentation in one, because it will pop the seal every time. 

 

@huirayhas already kindly advised me that the kind of bitter melon/gourd I can get is extremely bitter. @Lisa Shock, also mentioned that it must be sliced very thinly and pre-soaked to remove some of the bitterness. Hmm... If yer skeered, just say yer skeerd. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by Thanks for the Crepes (log)

[Lisa Shock]

I like bitter foods. I like more bitter foods than anyone I know. I'll nibble on grapefruit rinds, or eat plain radicchio sometimes.

 

Every time I have tried cooking bitter melon, it has wound up being pretty inedible. But, I have a Japanese friend who makes it all the time, and I can eat her dishes just fine. This might have something to do with the different varieties -just like how different peppers have varying amounts of heat. Or maybe, it's just bad luck, like getting a bitter eggplant.

 

I'd cook some and taste it before adding to a whole dish and possibly ruining the other ingredients.

[GlorifiedRice]

Most Drumsticks are found in the FREEZER section

 

 

 

[pastryani]

10 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

 

Thank you very much for this links on the recipes for laukhi/dudhi/bottle gourd, and also for the advice on bitter melon. Also for your recommendation for idly prep. I have stainless ramekins and a stainless expandable steamer I can put into a variety of my stainless pots. Perhaps some of my small glass prep/serving bowls might also work in the lower temps in a steamer, and result in a similarly shaped product to the traditional equipment. So I really appreciate all of your interesting ideas.

 

I did think that all fermented products continued to produce gases, so if you care to expand on your thoughts about a bulging container being a reject, I would read with interest. I would not be surprised if employees came around to "burp" these tightly sealed Chinese takeout style quart containers periodically. I know I can't throw a yeast dough for fermentation in one, because it will pop the seal every time. 

 

@huirayhas already kindly advised me that the kind of bitter melon/gourd I can get is extremely bitter. @Lisa Shock, also mentioned that it must be sliced very thinly and pre-soaked to remove some of the bitterness. Hmm... If yer skeered, just say yer skeerd. 

 

 

No problem, Crepes!  The stainless ramekins should work fine.  I was going to suggest glass bowls but wasn't sure if they'd shatter.  Just be sure to oil the ramekin before adding the batter.

 

Hmm I don't know about Chinese takeout style containers, but the batters I've seen are in plastic containers similar to large yogurt tubs.  If you lift up the top lid of the fermenting batters, you'll notice that there are small holes punctured across the plastic film just for gas release.  It's true that the batters will continue to ferment (and sour) as they sit, but when I purchase them I try to make sure that they're not already bulging.  While I prefer a more sour taste, I also prefer to see that fermentation happen myself (as opposed to buying it already like that, especially since you don't know how long its been in that state).

 

In Indian cooking, bitter melon is often boiled in salted water with turmeric to reduce the bitterness (though I can't help but feel that boiling the heck out of it voids many of its nutrients, in which case why suffer through eating it?!)  Deep frying thin slices also does a lot for removing bitterness, and then you can make a curry out of those slices.

 

[huiray]

7 hours ago, GlorifiedRice said:

Most Drumsticks are found in the FREEZER section

 

Yes, of course - packs of cleaned, cut-down-to-shorter-lengths stuff before freezing. I had fresh stuff (intact fresh pods) in mind, however; ditto fresh Moringa leaves. :-) 

[GlorifiedRice]

I eat bitter melon steamed with butter

[huiray]

On 4/22/2016 at 3:24 AM, huiray said:

On 4/22/2016 at 0:14 AM, Thanks for the Crepes said:

I think this might be the drumstick vegetable.

 

Yes, that's it.

Note that the leaves are also edible and used in many cuisines.  Somewhere here on eGullet I've posted a Pinoy soup I made using Moringa leaves...and the leaves are even less frequently found in these parts than the drumsticks.

 

On 4/22/2016 at 3:59 AM, huiray said:

Found it. Lookee here.

 

I was in the Castleton (Indy) Patel Brothers store today looking for green amaranth. The stuff they had was pretty sad. BUT --- they had beautiful Moringa leaves ("drumstick leaves").

 

 

Not sure yet what I'll do with them.

Maybe a Burmese or Thai soup...or a malunggay omelette...or something from the Malay or Nyonya repertoire...

Edited May 4, 2016 by huiray (log)

[weedy]

http://www.food.com/recipe/karela-bitter-melon-or-gourd-55817

[huiray]

Crepes, I was poking around in my fridge thinking about what to cook and I remembered the flat valor beans I picked up today. I've talked about them elsewhere on eG but I pulled them out and here they are, another "Indian Vegetable":

The whole bean in the middle of the picture is about 4 inches in length, to give you an idea of their size.

Yes, I find they need to be topped and tailed, at least with the fresh stuff I get around here, before cooking or I will get a dish where "extra work" is needed while eating.

 

Have you seen these in your local Indian shops?

Edited May 5, 2016 by huiray (log)

[Thanks for the Crepes]

No @huiray, I've not seen these valor beans. At first glance, they look a lot like snow peas. I can see the difference though.  From your excellent photos, they appear to be a tougher vegetable, and not as smooth on their surface as snow peas. Are there any similarities? I love snow peas, but I also love pole beans which I used to grow. Your valor beans look somewhere between the two. Pole beans need much longer cooking, but they are very good too.

 

Thank you for your helpful information. I feel so intimidated going into a store with so much intriguing produce I am so ignorant about. With sight recognition and an English name, I can Google much more information. I will look forward to seeing what you cook with your valor beans.

 

Often at this particular store, there are no signs or prices at all. The few they do have are handwritten. One good thing is that they also do not have those hated stickers on the produce either. 

 

[huiray]

@Thanks for the Crepes, you're welcome.

 

Valor beans come in a round form also.  They do indeed have a more bumpy and uneven surface than snow peas, with ridged bumps along the edges too (look again at the photos). These also have a very distinct darker green shading at the top edge suffusing downwards for a short distance (see photos). I think they are beautiful. They do also have a more "meaty" bite/texture/body, not exactly "tougher", but, yes, more like pole beans – whereas snow peas tend to be much more "watery" and crunchy. They have a more "vegetal"/green taste than snow peas, with a sort of very vague spicy edge to it. I like them. Generally they *will* need to be de-stringed, topped and tailed, as I mentioned, unless they are very young beans; or unless you like the strings (as roughage, maybe). I wouldn't eat them raw, though – I'd cook them.

 

Here's what I did with most of them last night.

Topped & tailed, de-stringed, cut into halves lengthwise. The seeds in the older ones are not insubstantial. :-) Soak for a bit. Hot pan, peanut oil, sliced shallots, chopped smashed garlic, curry leaves (Murraya koenigii), ground cumin seed, chopped hot long finger chillies, then the prepped valor beans. Stir around. Salt it. Add some water, cover, cook; stir around (cover off/cover on) till done as desired.

I served it with gussied-up rice. Hot peanut oil, chopped garlic, Basmati rice [Z Reserve], stir around, chicken stock, water, green cardamom pods, dried bay leaves, pine nuts (I couldn't find my shelled pistachios). Cook in the usual manner (stove top) till done.

 

Close-up.

 

I had seconds. Burp.

 

ETA: Another difference between these beans and snow peas – they are forgiving towards longer cooking and retain their "meatiness" although they get progressively softer but without falling apart. Snow peas, for me personally, *have* to be eaten quickly after cooking, and they do not withstand overcooking or being a component in "leftovers" from a dish – they turn to mush and usually acquire a nasty off-putting smell and texture. To me, anyway.

I would use these valor beans instead of the usual beans in, say, something like fagiolini al pomodoro, or fagioli corallo al pomodoro (see here, here, here, here too)...whereas I would NOT use snow peas in these dishes.

Edited May 5, 2016 by huiray (log)