Minimalist No-Knead Bread Technique (Part 2)

[Emily_R]

Blissful Glutton --

The lack of salt was my thought on the no-knead bread too... Tell me -- how did it work with 2 tsp? How did it taste? I was worried to up the salt so much since I know it is a yeast retarder...

Emily

[Pam R]

Any interesting experiments lately?

Is everybody still baking a lot of bread or did the novelty wear off?

[cajungirl]

Any interesting experiments lately?

Is everybody still baking a lot of bread or did the novelty wear off?

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This weekend, I went back to the original recipe (but with more salt). I had been making sourdough or rye, or semolina, or 9grain cereal, or rosemary, or potato, or ...well, you get the idea. For those of us who are not home all the time, it sure gives us a lot of flexibility. I've also made different shapes, batards in oval shaped caserole dishes, small boule in small casserole dishes. Since I got back into bread baking, the market hasn't seen a cent of my money go toward bread purchases

[Morten]

Any interesting experiments lately?

Is everybody still baking a lot of bread or did the novelty wear off?

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Almost everyda a new bread is popping out Lots of experiements going on, but most of them work and taste great

[Cookie Dibs]

My husband thinks I am obsessed with this recipe.

I've now made it four times. I personnaly find it very forgiving, even the time I didn't measure very accurately.

I've made it with King Arthur Bread Flour, and sometimes include up to 6 oz. of whole wheat flour.

Last night's experiment:

10 oz. bread flour

6 oz. whole wheat

2 oz. roasted pumpkin seeds

2 oz. sunflower seeds

1/4 t. instant yeast

2 t. salt

I added the pumpkin and sunflower seeds on the first rise, as I was turning it.

Topped with seseme seeds on the 2nd rise, and turned it into the pan, which formed a great seseme bottom crust. Next time I need to turn once to get the seeds all over , as they were wonderfully roasted and delicious...

There is a lot of discussion on what pan to use. I have great luck with just an old copper 3 quart pan. I put it in the oven, pull it out, plop the bread in it, cover and immediately return to the oven. I has come out of the pan without a hitch every time. The trick to that is to just make sure the dough is adequately floured (or in that last case, seeded).

Like many folks, I gave up on the towel method, which ruined my towel, and I just turn it out into parchment. I noticed on the video on Martha Stewart that Jim Lahey mixes it in a bowl, and then removes the mixture to rise to an OILED bowl, for ease of removal. I will try that soon.

As for flavor, it's NOT sourdough bread, which I hate. It's got a very rich bread flavor, but if you want sourdough (which I personally detest) this recipe in it's initially published form is not the recipe for you....

Has anyone tried any of the following variations:

- shaping into a ficelle/baguette?

- Adding oil or butter to the recipe?

- Making a "sweet" dough out of it ?

- Using 100% whole wheat/grains?

Have fun

[scubadoo97]

I've recently started making this bread. First one turned out great with the addition of rosemary. 2nd one had rosemary, roasted garlic and olives. The 3rd one was half whole wheat. I want to try a rye bread using this method. My first attempt looked great. Just like most of the photos posted. Round, brown and crusty with nice big holes in the crumb.

[emsny]

No, Pam R, the novelty has by no means worn off - this remains our house bread. I'm in flux about flour, though: the best flavor (or at least the one I'm accustomed to) comes from Great Valley Mills unbleached hard wheat flour, but I can't seem to get hold of them to order more. I've tried various Giusto's and KA flours but it isn't quite the same. Does anybody know if anything has happened at Great Valley?

[BekkiM]

I am waaay late to the party, but my first batch is rising on my kitchen counter as I type--I'm so excited I can hardly stay at work. I'd much rather be at home watching the yeast grow.

Though I somehow missed this thread in its infancy (and it took me 3 days to get through all 21 pages), I was inspired to the technique because Jeffrey Steingarten wrote about it in this month's Vogue AND included a very nice plug for eGullet.

[Miriam Kresh]

I bake the no-knead recipe at least once weekly, and like others, experiment with flours and additives. The one I like most so far has a sour WW starter, but the rest of the flour is white. No olives, nuts, seeds, herbs, although I use and like all of those at other times. The plain sourdough variation somehow satisfies me most. Although yesterday I added 1/2 cup of oats to the original recipe and the result was almost as good.

Miriam

Edited May 31, 2007 by Miriam Kresh (log)

[scubadoo97]

I have to admit that my first attempt has been my best. The wheat and the most recent wheat/rye did not rise as well and were too dense. I didn't add any sweeteners which are common in wheat and rye breads. I will go back to using the white flour and maybe some herbs for flavor.

[Cookie Dibs]

I have to admit that my first attempt has been my best.  The wheat and the most recent wheat/rye did not rise as well and were too dense.  I didn't add any sweeteners which are common in wheat and rye breads.  I will go back to using the white flour and maybe some herbs for flavor.

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I've tried versions with part whole wheat, all KA bread flour, and with added seeds and nuts.

I also like the white the best.

Not to be sacreligous....My last experiment included about 1/4 cup of cake flour and a tablespoon of olive oil...really. I shaped it into fat baguettes, and tented the cookie sheet with foil. It was like a ciabatta. Very good, and long lasting - it was still delicous several days later, toasted after being in the refrig...

[SaltySnack]

I need help! I finally have had the time to try this recipe and am in a place where I can do it. I think I've made 4 batches this week or maybe even 5.

The bread just isn't coming out fully cooked. What do I do to fix this problem? the crust is great, but the inside is dougy.

1. Use less water, I tried this the last time I made the bread, still the same extremely doughy texture after baking

2. different baking equipment - not going to happen, I am not going to buy a $150 le crueset pot just to experiment with making bread a few times, i'll stick to the pyrex dish

3. heat the pot longer?

4. cook the bread covered longer?

5. am i letting it sit too long before baking?

6. different oven temperature

What do I do differently? Has anyone else had ths problem?

Why has this bread been so easy for so many other people and just keeps turning out wrong for me. The flavor is there, the crust is there, just the insides aren't quite up to par. Is it because I am in rainy Louisiana and it is so humid? What is the problem???

[BekkiM]

I need help! I finally have had the time to try this recipe and am in a place where I can do it. I think I've made 4 batches this week or maybe even 5.

The bread just isn't coming out fully cooked. What do I do to fix this problem? the crust is great, but the inside is dougy.

1. Use less water, I tried this the last time I made the bread, still the same extremely doughy texture after baking

2. different baking equipment - not going to happen, I am not going to buy a $150 le crueset pot just to experiment with making bread a few times, i'll stick to the pyrex dish

3. heat the pot longer?

4. cook the bread covered longer?

5. am i letting it sit too long before baking?

6. different oven temperature

What do I do differently? Has anyone else had ths problem?

Why has this bread been so easy for so many other people and just keeps turning out wrong for me. The flavor is there, the crust is there, just the insides aren't quite up to par.  Is it because I am in rainy Louisiana and it is so humid? What is the problem???

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Are you weighing your ingredients or just measuring them by volume? I'm thinking that the humidity in LA may result in a much moister flour than what some of us in more arid climates are using.

My first batch (I've made about the same number as you) was definitely doughy--it helped to (a) weigh the ingredients to ensure the proper hydration ratio and (b) use the instant-read thermometer to get the interior of the loaf up to the correct temperature. In fact, the driest batch was the one I forgot about (my excuse being that I was meeting with our kitchen designer at the time and the discussion of a new oven completely drove the experiment out of my mind) which ended up being about 5 degrees hotter than the recommended temp. I didn't much care for the mahogany exterior (I like my crust a little lighter), but the interior was great.

I did not go out and buy a $150 Le Crueset, but I did "splurge" on a $25 cast iron pot at Target. It heats up very nicely and is a good volume for the single loaf. I've been letting it preheat for at least 45 minutes before plopping in the dough.

You don't say how long you've been cooking covered vs. uncovered, so it's hard to say how modifying those ratios will work for you, but since we're talking about a dollar's worth of ingredients, it might not be a bad idea to test a few loaves working the ratio up and down and seeing what the impact is for your environment.

[jgm]

I think it's all in the baking time, and I think a cast iron pot would retain a lot of heat that would radiate into the bread and accomplish the extra baking it sounds like you're needing.

The amount of time with the lid on, affects how thick and crunchy the crust will be. When I bake my bread, I try to get it extremely brown, but not burnt. I take the lid off at 20 minutes, and that's about all the crunch and chewiness I want.

Cast iron's properties are different than any other type of pan. I bought a $30 pot-and-lid combination at Wal-Mart. Since you like the flavor of this bread, and you're obviously interested in it, I would encourage you to find some regular cast iron. My pot, by the way, is about 3 to 3 1/2 quarts, and it's plenty big enough. It wouldn't hurt to look in thrift stores, too. Our local food writer recommends that; he found several pieces of Le Creuset in a thrift store, $100 for the lot.

I'm gonna start stalking him, since he obviously knows where to go and has the karma to make it happen.

[prasantrin]

Are you cutting into the bread when it's still warm? It needs to be cooled for a few hours before you slice into it. I noticed when I can't resist that fresh-out-of-the-oven slice, it's always a bit soggy inside.

[joancassell]

I started with a variation of the bread, from the King Arthur Flour catalogue, having had no success with the Times recipe (too gloopy to handle). I then varied the King Arthur variation a bit. I used 13 3/4 oz. King Arthur AP flour, 3 oz. pumpernickel flour, 3 oz. mixed seeds (pumpkin, flax, toasted sesame, sunflower -- but I think you could use whatever you like), 1 1/2 tsp. sea salt, 1 5/8 cups spring water. I used a dough mixer (easier than the Kitchenaid, learned about these from a King Arthur breadmaking course) to blend, let it rise for 18 hours, folded it a few times on a floured board (needed a dough scraper to do this) made a ball with the help of the dough scraper, put it into a greased bowl (King Arthur's suggestion: lots easier than a towel), let it rise for 2 hours, poured it into a Le Creuset 5 qt buffet pot preheated in a 450 oven . Removed the top after 30 minutes, baked 35 minutes more, removed bread and let ot cool on a rack for an hour. It was about 108 to 110 when done.

Delicious! Lots of flavor and texture, lots of holes, lovely crisp crust. So good I've been making it over and over. In fact some is in the oven right now. Yum!

The Le Creuset pot gets stained inside, though, and I'm thinking of getting an Emil Henry stoneware 4 qt. pot for this, which is what King Arthur recommends. Tried bleach on the pot, even tried a special Le Creuset cleaning product, but the casserole has tan stains that I can't seem to remove.

[Beanie]

I've had great success using a Chinese clay sand pot. I have this one with the double handles. It was only $7.00 at the Asian market in my area.

[sanrensho]

I've had great success using a Chinese clay sand pot. I have this one with the double handles. It was only $7.00 at the Asian market in my area.

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That's a great idea. I have a few glazed nabe pots, I might have to try it out.

Have you experienced any cracking with preheating the clay pot? Any sticking issues?

[Beanie]

I've had great success using a Chinese clay sand pot. I have this one with the double handles. It was only $7.00 at the Asian market in my area.

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That's a great idea. I have a few glazed nabe pots, I might have to try it out.

Have you experienced any cracking with preheating the clay pot? Any sticking issues?

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Sorry for the delay in responding. No problem preheating the clay pot. Sometime I soak it in water for a few minutes before placing it in the cold oven, but I can't say this makes a difference because I've also preheated it without soaking. The first time I used it, the bread didn't stick; the second time it stuck in a few spots. Now I spray the inside with pan spray just before placing the dough inside and it works like a charm. A few fine hairline cracks have developed on the outside surface, but I think this if from using the pan over a direct flame on the gas range. The enamel surface inside the pot is fine. I think the cracks are typical of this type of pot; the wire around the outside holds it together. Eventually it will break, but then I'll spend another $7.00 for a replacement. I've had it for two years and use it for cooking small quantities of soups and stews as well as baking bread. One final thing: These potholders for really good for grabbing the stubby handles on the clay pots.

[Wholemeal Crank]

I was quite interested in your post, as well as another mention of good results with a 3 1/2 quart enameled cast iron pot.

I have been disappointed in the size of the loaf coming out of my 5 qt dutch oven, and I've been pondering smaller options to get a higher loaf, but lodge offers a 2 1/2 qt model that seems a bit small, and several variations on 4 qt that look like shorter versions of my dutch oven--not the smaller diameter I need.

It's easy to get stainless pots in a variety of sizes, but I figure the thermal mass is critical here, and want to avoid the enamel pots where I end up paying lot$ for the enamel coating that I don't particularly want for this particular application.

Should be easy to find a nicely sized clay pot now that I'm reassured it can take the heat!

Edited September 11, 2007 by Wholemeal Crank (log)

[Pontormo]

Just made batch number 3, maybe, months after first attempt. Used Abra's formula for larger loaves (24 oz. total, though I used KA bread flour for protein content & a little less than 4 oz. WW for flavor). 20 minutes lidded, though I'd go for 30 minutes next time. Final minutes on rack. Might also take loaf out sooner since bottom crust blackened a bit on one side.

The results were mixed on a humid rainy day, the interior somewhat damp perhaps because I speeded up the cooling process by sticking the loaf in front of the AC. Don't. Toast excellent, nonetheless.

Here's where I remain disappointed: little spring and shape.

I use a 5 or 6-quart enamel Dutch oven [bottom says "26" and "FRANCE"; Staub's inexpensive line] and was unhappy w the spread of what seemed like an inadequate amount of dough the first two times. Thus, the increase of flour and water. When I plopped the raw loaf into the heated pot, I was hopeful since the volume seemed perfect.

Results measure just a little more than 3 inches in the center. Form? Not so much a dome with sloping sides as a cake with tall sides rising straight upward with just a little more height in the center.

Even though I jiggled the dough a bit before covering it w a lid and closing the oven door, some of the dough remained pressed against the sides of the pot for a long time before contracting. I didn't have to labor to get the loaf out; it's not that the loaf stuck to the pot's surface.

[Pontormo]

P.S. Anyone have tips for cleaning the enamel--or links to relevant tips? What was once a nice bright yellow is becoming quite autumnal.

[Joe Blowe]

Bleach works in all light-colored enameled interiors.

[Wholemeal Crank]

Interesting to see more comments about the pots used for this and the quantity of dough.

I am not surprised to see that just increasing the dough volume does not work to give the desired shape to a larger pot. This is a fragile dough with passively rather than actively developed gluten, and it makes sense that there may be a limit to how large a loaf can be created before it collapses under its own weight.

I have a 5 qt pot and found my loaves were lower than I wanted too. My preferred solution would be to find a smaller pot, but cast iron pots in the 3-4 quart size range that are not enameled (so not subject to the color changes, chips or cracks) are hard to find.

Maybe the solution is to reduce the dough volume and use the smaller plain cast iron pots that are more readily available, like this 2 qt pot from lodge:

http://tinyurl.com/23ueb2

Or try the chinese clay pot from a few posts back.

[Patapsco Mike]

At the risk of being a thread caboose, let me say that the recipe in the NYT article was a revelation to me. I tried a bunch of bread recipes over 2 decades, and they ranged from to . At best maybe Then I followed the recipe, and first try was

If you are still on the fence about trying it, you really need to take the leap. It's so easy it's laughable- and the results.... I popped that first loaf out of the pot and I was in total disbelief. It was crusty, crackling as it cooled. I was flabbergasted. In my wildest dreams I never imagined I could make a crusty holey loaf like that without some special oven, several classes, and God knows what kind of expensive contraptions and PITA gyrations and fermentations. I did it with things I already had in the house for heaven's sake, and made a fantastic loaf the first time. My wife came in the house, looked at a sliced piece in disbelief, and said "you made that??"

It was, and remains, a revelation.