Cooking Dried Beans

[rancho_gordo]

We haven't had the Giant white limas for years, so they might have been a little old. We have large white limas, which are not as sweet and really taste more what you expect from a lima. They have a more vegetable flavor, for better or worse. I love them with parma cheese.

I'm so glad the Reboseros are getting such a nice reception! A woman in her 60s was growing them single-handedly for us in Hidalgo but because they were so popular, her grandson, who was on his way to the states illegally, has decided to stay and work with his grandmother instead. I never dreamed that my selfish need to consume could make a real difference, but it did!

[Jaymes]

We haven't had the Giant white limas for years, so they might have been a little old. We have large white limas, which are not as sweet and really taste more what you expect from a lima. They have a more vegetable flavor, for better or worse. I love them with parma cheese.

I'm so glad the Reboseros are getting such a nice reception! A woman in her 60s was growing them single-handedly for us in Hidalgo but because they were so popular, her grandson, who was on his way to the states illegally, has decided to stay and work with his grandmother instead. I never dreamed that my selfish need to consume could make a real difference, but it did!

Well, maybe what I had was just the large white limas, and not giant white limas.

I mean, they were pretty big.

And pretty white.

But maybe not giant.

I haven't had them that long so if you haven't had the giant white limas "for years," that couldn't be what we ate.

[janeer]

I have yet to cook any of the beans that have not been superior to beans from other vendors and as some are unavailable anywhere else, he will continue to supply mine.

I am happy to know of RG, but wonder if you have tried Purcell Mountain? For selection and quality,I have always been extremely pleased. Do you know them? Is RG better quality (if not with the huge selection)as PM?

[Katie Meadow]

Whatever can't be had from RG I order from Purcell Mountain Farms. Purcell is my go-to source for dark red kidney beans--they are excellent quality, seem very fresh. They used to regularly stock the rattlesnake beans that I adore, but have been out of them for over a year now. The only place I've found that still carries rattlers is Urban Herbs; not as fresh as RG or Purcell beans, but better than no rattlers at all. If anyone knows another source for rattlesnake beans, don't keep it a secret, please. I've pestered RG about them several times, but no luck! Are they an endangered species, Steve? Get the Hidalgo granny interested in saving them too. Meanwhile tell her the Reboseros are delicious, and to keep 'em coming.

[andiesenji]

Whatever can't be had from RG I order from Purcell Mountain Farms. Purcell is my go-to source for dark red kidney beans--they are excellent quality, seem very fresh. They used to regularly stock the rattlesnake beans that I adore, but have been out of them for over a year now. The only place I've found that still carries rattlers is Urban Herbs; not as fresh as RG or Purcell beans, but better than no rattlers at all. If anyone knows another source for rattlesnake beans, don't keep it a secret, please. I've pestered RG about them several times, but no luck! Are they an endangered species, Steve? Get the Hidalgo granny interested in saving them too. Meanwhile tell her the Reboseros are delicious, and to keep 'em coming.

Marx foods in Washington state sells rattlesnake beans. They are out of stock right now, waiting for the new crop to come in.

Here's the link.

The only legume I have purchased from them are the fermented black beans. I have also purchased their dried wild mushrooms. Expensive but the quality is extraordinary. I also purchased camelina seeds to add yet another omega-3 fatty acid/antioxidant to my diet.

I have purchased from Purcell, and from Barry Farm. I buy from RG whenever possible because I want to support these small traditional native farmers.

I used to buy beans from Indian Harvest until I got a bad batch.

[Katie Meadow]

Thanx, I'll watch for rattlers on the Marx Foods site. Surprisingly Marx has never come up on any search I've made for dried beans.

[Jaymes]

We haven't had the Giant white limas for years, so they might have been a little old. We have large white limas, which are not as sweet and really taste more what you expect from a lima. They have a more vegetable flavor, for better or worse. I love them with parma cheese.

I'm so glad the Reboseros are getting such a nice reception! A woman in her 60s was growing them single-handedly for us in Hidalgo but because they were so popular, her grandson, who was on his way to the states illegally, has decided to stay and work with his grandmother instead. I never dreamed that my selfish need to consume could make a real difference, but it did!

Well, maybe what I had was just the large white limas, and not giant white limas.

I mean, they were pretty big.

And pretty white.

But maybe not giant.

I haven't had them that long so if you haven't had the giant white limas "for years," that couldn't be what we ate.

Can't get the lima conundrum out of my mind.

I did get that bag out of the freezer, so I suppose it's possible it's been in there "for years" although I didn't think so.

The beans were about one inch long. Does that make them "giant" or simply large?

And they were so good. I'd even say fabulous. I had big plans to order more.

If 1" long does make them giant and you don't have any more right now, when, if ever, might you get more?

And if they're simply large and not giant, do you have any more large white limas I can order?

[andiesenji]

Thanx, I'll watch for rattlers on the Marx Foods site. Surprisingly Marx has never come up on any search I've made for dried beans.

I have never seen them on a Google search either. One of my basenji friends, who lives in Seattle gave me their email address when I complained about the quality of some dried wild mushrooms I had purchased.

She said to inquire about their products and they sent me an email with their URL.

I also ordered the en croute duck paté to take to a party when I didn't have time to make up something. (I took three of them (there are 8 in the order) and they were gone almost instantly - I didn't even get a taste at the party.)

I later thawed one for brunch when a couple of friends were visiting, they raved about it and to me it was better than any I have made and mine are pretty good!

[rancho_gordo]

Jaymes, I'm sure they were Large Limas. They're pretty big and we grow them. The Giants were obscenely big and would burst easily because the skins couldn't hold the bean inside. They were also sweet and a little potatoey, unlike the large limas which are really clearly a lima. They are wonderful! We had imported the giants (I think they needed more daylight hours than we can provide) and we grow the large limas here in California.

Re Rattlesnakes, we've never had enough seed to grow them and they are lovely, but very similar to pintos and it seemed other people were growing them, so there just didn't seem a need. Now it seems that whoever was growing them hopefully just had a bad year, but possibly they lost distributorship. Which brings me to another point: I'm not saying it's better or worse but we grow all of our beans in California except for the beans in the Rancho Gordo-Xoxoc Project, which are grown in Mexico by small, indigenous farmers*. Some places are buying and distributing beans. This doesn't mean they aren't serious, it's just a different business. But it might explain why all of a sudden everyone has rattlesnakes and then all at once everyone is out of them.

(* We've been playing around with Peru imports, as the Giant Lima, but nothing serious yet)

[andiesenji]

I'm bumping this topic up to let folks know that Purcell Mountain Farms now has Rattlesnake Beans, new crop in stock.

They don't usually last long so now is the time. I've ordered five pounds and am thinking of getting more as I use them for baked beans.

[Katie Meadow]

Yes, they got them in a couple of months ago. I'm about to place another order as well, along with dark red kidney beans. I use rattlers for everything I used to use pinto beans. They take a little longer to cook, but hold their shape better and have a richer flavor. Pintos might be the best if you were making refried beans, though.

In case you haven't tried them, I think Purcell carries the best kidney beans I've ever tasted. I've had the organic and the non-organic, and both are excellent. I'm pretty sure I couldn't tell them apart in a side-by-side tasting, but if organic matters to you and you are willing to pay a little more per pound, Purcell always has them.

[Silhorn]

Hello,

I have a problem when cooking dried beans.

I soak my beans for at least 24 hours. Whenever I cook my beans there always seems to be a small portion that still remains crunchy. I cook them just before they go mush and make sure I submerge them in more than enough water, same result. This happens whether I pressure cook or on the stove in a pot.

What I do notice though is if I soak them in SALTY water (rinse off before cooking), this problem no longer arises.

Does anyone know what the salty water does to the beans and has anyone else had this same problem happen to them?

[pazzaglia]

Ordinarily, an overnight soak in plenty of water (about four times the quantity) should take care of most beans. This might not be working for you due to the age of the beans - as beans get older they need more time to soak. It's always a good idea to purchase dried beans from a store with a very active bulk-bin so you know the beans have not been sitting in a package on the shelf collecting dust.

Brining beans (soaking with salt) during soaking accelerates their cooking time during conventional cooking. Equally, brining, accelerates their bean cooking time in the pressure cooker as well. Under normal conditions with "fresh" dried beans the recommended pressure cooking time will turn beans to mush - I haven't quite had time to figure out the exact time savings - but it's significant!

Here is a video that describes the process and talks a little bit about the science of brining beans...

Ciao,

L

Edited August 12, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[Ttogull]

I agree that it most likely is a problem with the bean. I cook at least two pounds per week do all different sizes and shapes. I do not soak, even the giant runner beans. I cook in salted water from the start. But I use very good beans from Rancho Gordo and Purcell Mountain. Or if I buy from the store, I buy from a Latin American grocery that turns its beans probably every week or so.

I do cook beans very slowly in a clay pot. Simmer where I see a bubble or two once in a while. Runner beans can take most of a day. Slow is key because otherwise the bean will be uneven.

I've also used the pressure cooker with no problems. Sometimes I will use a pressure cooker to finish beans that are still not ready after many hours. No issues there, and it used to be my favorite way. Now I prefer the clay pot.

ETA: I always steam my beans at the end for at least 1/2 hour. I just turn the heat off and let them sit. I think this promotes even cooking too.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Ttogull (log)

[pazzaglia]

It sounds like the clay pot reduces and intensifies the bean cooking liquid - is that why you've moved to cooking them that way?

Next time you're in a hurry try pressure cooking your beans but only adding 1 1/2 cups of water for each cup of dried soaked beans. So, for two cups of beans soaked overnight, pressure cook them in just three cups of water (with natural release as you do with your clay pot). The beans and their cooking liquid will be super-charged with flavor!

Ciao,

L

[Ttogull]

Actually, I think the sauce is more intense with the pressure cooker. Steve Sando (Rancho Gordo) once wrote that bean broth from a pressure cooker seemed lifeless. I had a similar thing bugging me, but I characterized it as sterile (which, in writing this, reminds me that sterile implies lifeless). There is something about putting a pot of beans on and smelling their aromas as they go through the stages of cooking. It was nice to decide last minute with the PC, but the romance was missing.

[Lisa Shock]

Minerals in the water may be the culprit. Try filtered water.

[HungryC]

I'm with the posters who claim the fault lies in the bean. Very old beans will often refuse to soften, or remain grainy/hard in spots. Buy from a store with higher turnover.

[Plantes Vertes]

If you have hard water in your area you could try adding 1/4tsp bicarbonate of soda per lb dry beans to the soaking water. It's supposed to make the beans less tough.

[pazzaglia]

Actually, I think the sauce is more intense with the pressure cooker. Steve Sando (Rancho Gordo) once wrote that bean broth from a pressure cooker seemed lifeless. I had a similar thing bugging me, but I characterized it as sterile (which, in writing this, reminds me that sterile implies lifeless). There is something about putting a pot of beans on and smelling their aromas as they go through the stages of cooking. It was nice to decide last minute with the PC, but the romance was missing.

Interesting! This is the first time I have heard anyone call legume cooking romantic.

One pressure cooker manufacturer I work with promotes the fact that you can't smell the cooking - but, like you, I do not find it not to be a benefit (especially for the measly 20-30 minutes it takes). A less modern venting cooker will likely release more aroma.

However--- I don't miss waking up early to start the Bolognese for a lasagna lunch and have the house smell like ragu for about four hours (and beyond the lasagna) because now I can I can pressure cook it in as much time as it takes my oven to pre-heat!

Ciao,

L

[Silhorn]

So it looks like brining seems ok and alot of people actually do it.

Thanks for your replies and the video.

[slkinsey]

I have no idea how the ATK people got the idea that salt from the brining liquid wouldn't pass through the skin of the bean, but from my experience they are dead wrong about that. If you brine beans in very salty water, even if you cook them in water with no salt whatsoever, the beans will be very salty.

[Mjx]

I have no idea how the ATK people got the idea that salt from the brining liquid wouldn't pass through the skin of the bean, but from my experience they are dead wrong about that. If you brine beans in very salty water, even if you cook them in water with no salt whatsoever, the beans will be very salty.

The ATK people don't say that, although they do state (in a recipe calling for an 8 to 24-hour soak):

'During soaking, the sodium ions will only filter partway into the beans, so their greatest effect is on the cells in the outermost part of the beans.'

(Cook's Illustrated, March & April 2008, p. 15).

They also call for draining and throughly rinsing the beans after brining.

[slkinsey]

I have no idea how the ATK people got the idea that salt from the brining liquid wouldn't pass through the skin of the bean, but from my experience they are dead wrong about that. If you brine beans in very salty water, even if you cook them in water with no salt whatsoever, the beans will be very salty.

The ATK people don't say that, although they do state (in a recipe calling for an 8 to 24-hour soak):

'During soaking, the sodium ions will only filter partway into the beans, so their greatest effect is on the cells in the outermost part of the beans.'

(Cook's Illustrated, March & April 2008, p. 15).

They also call for draining and throughly rinsing the beans after brining.

Have a listen to the ATK video posted above starting at the two-minute mark:

“By soaking them overnight in salted water, the salt slowly softens the skin. However, as the skin does not allow the salt to penetrate into the bean flesh, the interiors remain creamy and not mealy at all.” (emphasis added)

[Mjx]

Have a listen to the ATK video posted above starting at the two-minute mark:

“By soaking them overnight in salted water, the salt slowly softens the skin. However, as the skin does not allow the salt to penetrate into the bean flesh, the interiors remain creamy and not mealy at all.” (emphasis added)

I take your word for it, although I can't get the video to play. Cook's Illustrated has proved quite reliable, but the stuff on their site doesn't seem to be quite as carefully edited, and in this case, it's relatively hard to understand, given that they have the accurate information at their disposal.