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Modernist Cuisine Baking Steel

Chris Amirault

By Chris Amirault
in Kitchen Consumer

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Syzygies

Syzygies

Posted
Posted

With your Kamado, though, I think world class 4 minute NY style pies with 600-650 fibrament will be far more feasible than the Neo-in-a-grill holy grail.

That is much closer to what I'm homing in on, with an "it is what it is" acceptance of how the KK works. Your analysis nails it, it's a bottom heat source even if I get as close as possible to the dome and heat-soak the dome as much as I can. I've been wondering about better protecting the Fibrament from heat from below; you saved me a lot of trouble not chasing the steel plate angle there.

Per la strada incontro un passero che disse "Fratello cane, perche sei cosi triste?"

Ripose il cane: "Ho fame e non ho nulla da mangiare."

scott123

scott123

Posted
Posted (edited)


Yum! Wood pellet ash! Could I get a slice with extra ash?

I've been wondering about better protecting the Fibrament from heat from below; you saved me a lot of trouble not chasing the steel plate angle there.

Even with the built in protection from the metal deflector, fibrament stones are, by their nature, not terribly thermally durable. From what I've read, it looks like the stone just sits in the 'flame diverter' (basically just an aluminum pan). You'll extend your pre-heat time a bit, but you'll direct more heat to the ceiling and potentially further the life of your fibrament stone by putting a little air between the stone and the pan by setting the stone on 3 or 4 stainless steel washers. This will force the fibrament to pre-heat from above which should be a bit more gradual/even than preheating through aluminum, regardless of how well the highly conductive aluminum spreads the heat.

Edited by scott123 (log)
Syzygies

Syzygies

Posted
Posted

fibrament stones are, by their nature, not terribly thermally durable.

putting a little air between the stone and the pan by setting the stone on 3 or 4 stainless steel washers.

The KK is big, much bigger than, say, a BGE, and any stone on the upper grill is far from flames. I didn't order the protective metal pan, and I've had no problems from flame, the Fibrament has held up fine through many high heat cooks. I like your washer idea, though, to augment protecting it with a heat deflector to change the "bottom heat" bias.

What about baking steels (DIY or not) as radiant heat sources? In many applications I'd like stronger radiant heat from above. My favorite way to cook with the KK is as the fire dies out, but this could be enhanced, and radiant heat could certainly be improved in a home oven.

Per la strada incontro un passero che disse "Fratello cane, perche sei cosi triste?"

Ripose il cane: "Ho fame e non ho nulla da mangiare."

Keith_W

Keith_W

Posted
Posted

Scott, I would like to thank you for your detailed and informative replies. This is why I enjoy being a member of this site.

I was thinking of getting the MC cooking steel, but you make an excellent point about the broiler being able to saturate the steel so that it is hot enough to cook the base.

At the moment, my method is to preheat a cast iron pan on a gas hob. While the pan is still on the hob, I place the dough on the pan, then build the pizza while it is still on the gas. I then shove the whole thing into the broiler, and it cooks in 90 seconds. The downside of this technique is that the size of the pizza is limited by the size of the pan.

There is no love more sincere than the love of food - George Bernard Shaw
HungryC

HungryC

Posted
Posted

With your Kamado, though, I think world class 4 minute NY style pies with 600-650 fibrament will be far more feasible than the Neo-in-a-grill holy grail.

That is much closer to what I'm homing in on, with an "it is what it is" acceptance of how the KK works. Your analysis nails it, it's a bottom heat source even if I get as close as possible to the dome and heat-soak the dome as much as I can. I've been wondering about better protecting the Fibrament from heat from below; you saved me a lot of trouble not chasing the steel plate angle there.

My Big Green Egg pies never browned on top enough to make me happy....I wanted some true charring in spots. Broiler plus steel yields far superior results, for me. I have an average broiler, plain ol gas. Am upgrading to a BlueStar later this year, and I can't wait to use the steel with the BS infrared broiler.

--Celeste

Bouillie: eating in south Louisiana

Unpopular Poet

Unpopular Poet

Posted
Posted

My Big Green Egg pies never browned on top enough to make me happy....I wanted some true charring in spots. Broiler plus steel yields far superior results, for me. I have an average broiler, plain ol gas. Am upgrading to a BlueStar later this year, and I can't wait to use the steel with the BS infrared broiler.

That was going to be my next question -- I have a bluestar and I was wondering if the broiler (which is like a rocket) would really end up securing better results than my large BGE -- I am pretty excited to give it a try. I am going to make some pizza tonight and will try and do a side by side, as long as I can get a piece of steel.

Thanks

Chris Amirault

Chris Amirault

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Has anyone done anything interesting with one of these frozen, anti-griddle style?

Thanks, Lisa. That's a question I also have. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Not having a dog in the on-going Neapolitan pizza steel-cage death match, I'm also interested to see what other tasty pies are being made out there, D.O.C. notwithstanding.

Chris Amirault

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

Rozin Abbas

Rozin Abbas

Posted
Posted

My Big Green Egg pies never browned on top enough to make me happy....I wanted some true charring in spots. Broiler plus steel yields far superior results, for me. I have an average broiler, plain ol gas. Am upgrading to a BlueStar later this year, and I can't wait to use the steel with the BS infrared broiler.

Kenji, over at Serious Eats, coupled the baking steel with the kettle pizza and also threw in wood to his coals and managed a glorious looking crust.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2013/04/the-pizza-lab-combine-the-kettlepizza-and-the-baking-steel-for-the-ultimate-home-pizza-setup.html

Lisa Shock

Lisa Shock

Posted
Posted

My Big Green Egg pies never browned on top enough to make me happy....I wanted some true charring in spots. Broiler plus steel yields far superior results, for me. I have an average broiler, plain ol gas. Am upgrading to a BlueStar later this year, and I can't wait to use the steel with the BS infrared broiler.

Kenji, over at Serious Eats, coupled the baking steel with the kettle pizza and also threw in wood to his coals and managed a glorious looking crust.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2013/04/the-pizza-lab-combine-the-kettlepizza-and-the-baking-steel-for-the-ultimate-home-pizza-setup.html

Thank you! I have been procrastinating/debating about getting a grill (I'm a vegetarian who would mostly use it for pizza.) vs saving up for a wood fired bread oven I think this setup wins! (well the cost is a lot lower than installing an oven)

Have you read eGullet's Kitchen Scale manifesto?

Ttogull

Ttogull

Posted
Posted

Thank you! I have been procrastinating/debating about getting a grill (I'm a vegetarian who would mostly use it for pizza.) vs saving up for a wood fired bread oven I think this setup wins! (well the cost is a lot lower than installing an oven)

I got the Kettle Pizza at the end of last grilling season. I like to think I'm a pretty good griller, but im pretty sure this thing has a bit of a learning curve to it. Some people have obviously mastered it, so it can, and will, be done.

The funny thing is that the very first pizza I made on it was, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the best pizza I have EVER eaten. I eat a lot of pizza. It was cooked in under 90 seconds. It was amazing to see something go from raw to cooked that fast. The second pizza, however, was burned to pure char because some cheese got the pie instantly stuck to the stone. At those temps, one does not have time to solve such seemingly minor problems. I tried once more, but the winter winds ended the season without my matching the first pie. I have hope, and the above post has encouraged me to try again.

A little OT, but I just wanted to mention that your vegetarian options on a grill migh benefit from a cast iron Dutch oven. I don't know what you normally cook, but things like beans, chickpeas, or other stew-like dishes are great on a grill. Keeps the heat out of the kitchen, and I think the dishes have a character that an oven can't provide. Also, I am a fan of grilled fruits (particularly white grapes!). I assume you have already considered grilled veggies and stuff. Baba Ganoush off a grill is unbelievable - just throw the eggplant directly on the coals. The skin protects the inside, which has an incredible smoky flavor. Smoked salsa... Make me stop.

  • 2 weeks later...
Volition

Volition

Posted
Posted

What's everyone doing with there "Baking Steel" I just received the MC version. SO am interested ato hear and see what others are using it for. Hot applications cold applications other.

Time to show off your ingenuity Egulleters

Vol.

Chris Amirault

Chris Amirault

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)

Volition, when did you order and then receive it? And where? I'm getting radio silence from Stoughton Steel, from whom I ordered it at the MC website, and it's been nearly two weeks since I dropped the cash for it.

ETA: As if by magic, I got a response just now referencing lost packages by FedEx. Will report back.

Edited by Chris Amirault (log)

Chris Amirault

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

Volition

Volition

Posted
Posted

Well after spending nearly as much on courier for it as the steel itself. It took 5 days to arrive and that included the weekend. Ordered on a Friday and delivered on Tuesday. I have a pizza peel and wheat gluten and will try the MC@home version this weekend also with a new knife for my birthday which hopefully will arrive tomorrow. Thanks to my beautiful darling.

Once again would love to hear about all the uses people have.

Planning on trying out the steel on the portable induction cooktop for pancakes from my whipping siphon. Don't know about how to get it into my freezer for cold applications. Too scared it will break shelves in the freezer, this thing is heavy. Wait till I feel more confident.

Retry with the supplier, I really had no issues at all and was grateful for the speed of delivery though I paid for it. As usual In Australia it costs a fortune to get anything over here.

  • 3 weeks later...
HungryC

HungryC

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've been playing around with a wild-yeast leavened crust and the Baking Steel. (I hate to call it sourdough, as it's not the slightest bit sour.) Anyway, the crust is 500 g AP flour, 350 g water, 145 g active leaven culture (aka starter, levain, or whatever your preferred term is), and 12 g salt. I mixed the leaven & water together, then added 25% of the flour. I let it autolyse for 20 minutes, then stirred in the remaining flour and salt. Mixed it until flour is completely hydrated, but still a bit shaggy. Fermented at around 75 degrees (room temp) for about an hour, then refrigerated for a day. (ETA: divide the dough into three portions before refrigerating.) Dough was supple, easy to shape, and had beautiful oven spring. ETA: you know it was easy to work by looking at the nice, round pie pictured below. I usually struggle to get a perfect circle, and this time, it was easy.

Now on to the pie: a tarte flambee variation. Spread the dough w/a mix of equal parts sour cream and ricotta (no creme fraiche and fromage frais, so I made do), sprinkled with finely grated good quality Parmesan, then crumbled cooked bacon, then about two shallots, very thinly sliced. Did my usual Baking Steel routine: preheated at 525 for 45 minutes, then switched on the broiler to HI for 20 minutes. Peeled the pie onto the steel, rotated it a bit after 1 minute of cooking. It was done in 3.5 minutes, though I should have pulled it 15 seconds earlier, as my better half thought it was too charred on top (I'm fine with the char). It was a VERY tasty breakfast. Before and after pics below.

p5255663.jpg

p5255668.jpg

Edited by HungryC (log)

--Celeste

Bouillie: eating in south Louisiana

furzzy

furzzy

Posted
Posted

At the moment, my method is to preheat a cast iron pan on a gas hob. While the pan is still on the hob, I place the dough on the pan, then build the pizza while it is still on the gas. I then shove the whole thing into the broiler, and it cooks in 90 seconds. The downside of this technique is that the size of the pizza is limited by the size of the pan.

Wow! Never thought of this. And a cast iron griddle should work, too.

furzzy

furzzy

Posted
Posted

I've had my FibraMent for almost twenty years. Keep it on the bottom rack of the gas oven all the time.

This thread has me thinking of moving it up to the broiler level & trying this method for a pizza. I've put in a call to Mark at AWMCO to see what they think of it.

Anyone here have any thoughts on the viability and/or advisability?

janeer

janeer

Posted
Posted

in this weeks Test Kitchen, on the 'best gadgets' section they liked a Lodge circular cast iron 'pizza pan/stone'

http://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Pro-Logic-P14P3-Pizza-14-inch/dp/B0000E2V3X

they showed the crust with a tough of black and the top nicely done in the oven.

had not herd of it.

but with the 'start on the top of the stove tip' :

mine is on the way from The Zon.

This looks just like my old Calphalon anodized circular grill. maybe I'll try that. Meanwhile, Chris, where are you? Do you like your steel?

Jane

Little Compton Mornings

mrdecoy1970

mrdecoy1970

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm interested in these steels, is there a noticeable difference between 1/4 and 1/2? I don't mind slinging the extra weight but is the difference really that noticeable? I'd be curious to see a side by side cook results photo.

Edited by mrdecoy1970 (log)
HungryC

HungryC

Posted
Posted

I'm interested in these steels, is there a noticeable difference between 1/4 and 1/2? I don't mind slinging the extra weight but is the difference really that noticeable? I'd be curious to see a side by side cook results photo.

Kenji over at Slice did exactly this, but I can't seem to find the comparison right now. Here is the comparison on steel vs. stone: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/09/the-pizza-lab-the-baking-steel-delivers.html

Maybe someone else can dig up the 1/4 inch vs 1/2 inch comparison....

--Celeste

Bouillie: eating in south Louisiana

rob1234

rob1234

Posted
Posted

I'm interested in these steels, is there a noticeable difference between 1/4 and 1/2? I don't mind slinging the extra weight but is the difference really that noticeable? I'd be curious to see a side by side cook results photo.

Kenji over at Slice did exactly this, but I can't seem to find the comparison right now. Here is the comparison on steel vs. stone: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/09/the-pizza-lab-the-baking-steel-delivers.html

Maybe someone else can dig up the 1/4 inch vs 1/2 inch comparison....

I think he found it was slightly faster cooking with the 1/2 but not worth the extra weight (didn't reread the article). Maybe 3/8" modernist one is the best size/weight?

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/10/the-pizza-lab-baking-steel-lodge-cast-iron-pizza.html

mrdecoy1970

mrdecoy1970

Posted
Posted

I ordered the Modernist edition a few minutes ago, next I need a novice oriented tutorial on how to make a NY style dough. Can someone provide a link??? prefer it with videos. I've never made a pizza dough before. thanks!!

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