Need some purchasing guidance

[PassionateAmateur]

Oooooo -- first ever post!

I'm a foodie who's just starting to branch into cocktails. So many choices and so much information to absorb (mainly through my liver). I have no problem when a recipe calls for something like St Germain -- obviously I know what to buy. But how to choose when only generic bottles are called for? I'm not looking for crappy well-bottle quality here, but good mid-range bottles that will work nicely for many different applications. If you were going to choose just one, which bottle would you buy for use in a variety of recipes that simply call for:

Brandy

Cognac

Rye

Bourbon

Champagne

Dry sherry

Scotch

Tequila

Gin

Whiskey (and is there really any difference btw American and Irish aside from pride?)

Orange liqueur

White rum

Dark rum

Spiced rum

Thanks for any suggestions!

Emily

[mkayahara]

Check out this discussion.

[PassionateAmateur]

I should have guessed that this was already well-covered. Thanks!

[FrogPrincesse]

I would also recommend reading the The Ten-Bottle Start-up Home Cocktail Bar. Some great advice about how to set up your home bar.

[mkayahara]

It's probably also worth checking out the ingredient-specific threads, such as the ones on sherry or Champagne.

[Hassouni]

Oooooo -- first ever post!

I'm a foodie who's just starting to branch into cocktails. So many choices and so much information to absorb (mainly through my liver). I have no problem when a recipe calls for something like St Germain -- obviously I know what to buy. But how to choose when only generic bottles are called for? I'm not looking for crappy well-bottle quality here, but good mid-range bottles that will work nicely for many different applications. If you were going to choose just one, which bottle would you buy for use in a variety of recipes that simply call for:

Brandy

Cognac

Rye

Bourbon

Champagne

Dry sherry

Scotch

Tequila

Gin

Whiskey (and is there really any difference btw American and Irish aside from pride?)

Orange liqueur

White rum

Dark rum

Spiced rum

Thanks for any suggestions!

Emily

Welcome to the wallet-busting Spirits & Cocktails forum!

This has been discussed a lot, but I'll answer as best I can here:

Brandy and Cognac - Cognac is a type of brandy and while you can't sub brandy when a recipe calls for cognac, I feel you can go the other way, so i'd just get Cognac if you're starting out. I have Landy VS, which was bloody cheap and not bad - I suggest VS or VSOP Cognacs for mixing.

Rye - Rittenhouse if you can find it, Bulleit if it's reasonably priced. Old Overholt if all else fails

Bourbon - Wild Turkey 101, hands down. I'm not a bourbon fan but this stuff ROCKS and is dirt cheap

Champagne - Not an expert on this, as I find it's a waste to get a whole bottle of champagne just for a couple cocktails - you might try Prosecco, as it's a lot more affordable and has its own merits. Otherwise see what your local wine specialists recommends as a reasonable Champagne.

Dry Sherry - can't help you here

Scotch - for mixing, Grant's Family Reserve. For drinking neat....Highland Park 12 probably would be my recommendation for first-timers

Tequila - anything 100% agave - the blancos start at about $20. My Mexican friends swear by Cazadores

Gin - Beefeater and Broker's are my go-tos these days

American and Irish Whiskey - yes there is a difference, the former (think Bourbon or Tennessee whiskey) is usually based on corn (except rye, of course), the latter on malted barley, more like Scotch.

Orange liqueur - Cointreau. There is no substitute in my book, and it's by far the most called for liqueur in the cocktail world.

White rum - Flor de Caña 4 year extra dry, Brugal White, Barbancourt white.... The first two are probably the most versatile of these, with the FdC MAYBE having a slight edge, but I dunno. I can find it for a few bucks less here so that's what I tend to use.

Dark rum - Well...rum is the most diverse spirit out there, with each major rum producing country producing several very distinctive styles. It's VERY hard to pick just one, but I'd say the best bank for the buck is El Dorado 5, or if you want to spend a few bucks more, El Dorado 8.

Spiced rum - Kraken. Spiced rum generally is not that great and not called for that much in cocktail recipes, but the Kraken is fun

[FrogPrincesse]

Regarding Champagne, if it's for mixing I would go with a Cremant. It's a sparkling wine from France and there are a few good ones out there, typically around $10 - $15 a bottle. If you have access to Trader Joe's they usually have one or two different brands in stock.

[Dave the Cook]

Welcome to the wallet-busting Spirits & Cocktails forum!

This has been discussed a lot, but I'll answer as best I can here:

Brandy and Cognac - Cognac is a type of brandy and while you can't sub brandy when a recipe calls for cognac, I feel you can go the other way, so i'd just get Cognac if you're starting out. I have Landy VS, which was bloody cheap and not bad - I suggest VS or VSOP Cognacs for mixing.

. . .

Bourbon - Wild Turkey 101, hands down. I'm not a bourbon fan but this stuff ROCKS and is dirt cheap

. . .

Orange liqueur - Cointreau. There is no substitute in my book, and it's by far the most called for liqueur in the cocktail world.

I heard from a reliable industry source that Landy has been temporarily pulled off the market for rebranding in a collaboration with Snoop Dogg/Lion. Look for new packaging -- and a higher price -- when it returns. Too bad, because it was a great value.

We've been pouring Weller Special Reserve bourbon lately, and like it as much as Wild Turkey. It's even cheaper: ten bucks.

I mostly agree about Cointreau, but it's worth checking out Marie Brizard triple sec to see if it meets your standards. If it does, you'll save about ten dollars/750.

Regarding Champagne, if it's for mixing I would go with a Cremant. It's a sparkling wine from France and there are a few good ones out there, typically around $10 - $15 a bottle. If you have access to Trader Joe's they usually have one or two different brands in stock.

Cremant from Trader Joe's is a great suggestion; it's our go-to. Otherwise, Sigura Viudas Brut Reserva or Cristalino Brut (both are cavas) are fine for mixing, and usually less than $10.

[Rafa]

Luxardo Triplum is comparable to Cointreau and about ten bucks cheaper.

Bourbon and rum are, IMO, the spirits where great brands can be had for cheapest. In bourbon, you have Old Weller Special Reserve / Antique / 107, Very Old Barton, Old Fitzgerald, Old Grand Dad Bonded and 114, Four Roses yellow, Buffalo Trace, Wild Turkey 101, and Jim Beam Black all for under $25/750ml (and in some cases closer to $10!).

Rum is a much more diverse category, but I second Hassouni above that El Dorado 5 seems to be a good all around mixer that works where both white and aged rums are called for, and it's only about $15. El Dorado 3, their white, is amazing if not exactly the Cuban style of rum most recipes have in mind when they call for "white" (it's close enough to be a substitute); Flor de Cana Extra Dry from Nicaragua is a great, very cheap example of a Cuban-style white. Again, extremely diverse category. For dark rums (which aren't the same thing as aged rums) Gosling's Black Seal and Cruzan Blackstrap are both under $20; the Blackstrap has a heavy molasses/breakfast syrup flavor that some find off-putting, but personally I love it. Lemon Hart 151 is a rich and smokey overproof dark rum from Guyana and one of the world's greats, but it's usually priced in the mid-30s. Appleton 12 and El Dorado 12/15 are very good aged, sipping rums that also shine in cocktails.

You might want to look into Armagnac as your standard brandy as they are generally much, much better values than comparable Cognacs.

If you have a Trader Joe's that sells wine near you, their $5 sherries are perfectly good in cocktails, and their cremants and other cheap sparkling wines work well where Champagne's called for. It's not worth it to open a bottle of Champagne just to pour a few ounces into a cocktail. If you have a Sodastream or other carbonation system you can carbonate still white wines for this purpose too.

[EvergreenDan]

I have been collecting brand recommendations from a variety of sources and have organized them. Recommended Brands on Kindred Cocktails. Robert Hess liked the list, so I must be doing okay. /obnoxious_self-prmotion

[FrogPrincesse]

Welcome to the wallet-busting Spirits & Cocktails forum!

This has been discussed a lot, but I'll answer as best I can here:

Brandy and Cognac - Cognac is a type of brandy and while you can't sub brandy when a recipe calls for cognac, I feel you can go the other way, so i'd just get Cognac if you're starting out. I have Landy VS, which was bloody cheap and not bad - I suggest VS or VSOP Cognacs for mixing.

I heard from a reliable industry source that Landy has been temporarily pulled off the market for rebranding in a collaboration with Snoop Dogg/Lion. Look for new packaging -- and a higher price -- when it returns. Too bad, because it was a great value.

Too bad about the Landy VS because there aren't many good options at a low price point. Agree it is a good value (~$25 at BevMo when you can find it). I like it better than Courvoisier VS (closer to $30) or even Remy Martin VSOP (~ $40). I've been using it to make Fish House Punch lately.

I really like Pierre Ferrand 1840 for mixing but that's $40.

As Rafa pointed out, it's true that Armagnacs are a generally better value compared to Cognacs. However they are quite different. In general they have more "funk" and are rougher around the edges (think rhum agricole vs. rum). I love Armagnac but substituting it for Cognac will result in a different drink.

[Hassouni]

Montgomery County still has a ton of Landy VS left...

[Czequershuus]

As the discussion points out, it s very tough to find reasonably priced Cognac. In addition to what had been mentioned I have had good luck with Camus VS for a Cognac, as well as Raynal, which is another non-Cognac French brandy. I must admit I have tried Remy VSOP and did not find it any better than the cheaper products. Actually, I preferred the Camus by quite a bit.

[FrogPrincesse]

Camus is a good brand but tends to be pricey. Regarding Raynal, I got a bottle from Trader Joe's a while back but did not care for it at all. I used it in punch but it was vastly inferior to Landy.

[ChrisTaylor]

Where do you live? This matters. I mean, if you're in Australia then you might not be able to get some of the things that people here tend to recommend. Still:

Brandy/Cognac: Martell VSOP or, if you can get it

Rye: Wild Turkey rye if you're in Australia or somewhere else with a limited/expensive selection. Otherwise, Rittenhouse and Saz are both nice.

Bourbon: I like Elijah Craig and Woodford Reserve, altho' Russell's Reserve is also very nice. Buffalo Trace, too.

Champagne: I like Mumm, altho' I've never used in in cocktails

Dry sherry

Scotch: most scotch-based cocktails will use a blend. Monkey Shoulder is a pleasant-enough, albeit staid, blend. You'll get some cocktails calling for an Islay, tho'. Can't go past Lag or Laph.

Tequila: I use Herradurra anejo in most applications, altho' if you want to spend less money Espolon goes down nicely too

Gin: entry-level Tanq. Hendricks is nice. Junipero is good, too.

Whiskey: By this you mean Irish, right? I like Bushmills. The 10 year old single malt. Not a fan of the Black.

Orange liqueur: Cointreau.

White rum: Banks 5 Island.

Dark rum: Smith & Cross (or Inner Circle Green) and Appleton

Spiced rum: no.

Edited April 18, 2013 by ChrisTaylor (log)

[Adam George]

Hi Emily.

Welcome to your new hobby.

Might I suggest taking Roberts's advice from this video and stocking your bar one drink at a time rather than buying lots of spirits.

http://smallscreennetwork.com/video/5/cocktail_spirit_last_word/

What's your favourite drink? I'd be happy to suggest decent brands for it.

Also, I suggest picking one or two favourite spirits and buying many more vermouths, liqueurs and bitters in order to modify them into cocktails.

For example, my favourite mixing spirits and gin and rye, with light rum coming in a close third. With these three, dry and sweet vermouth, Cointreau, Chartreuse, Maraschino and fresh citrus you can make a wonderful array of cocktails.

[weinoo]

Of course, depending on where you live, spirit prices can vary tremendously.

I think it's too bad more people can't get their hands on, for example, Pikesville Rye, which I am able to grab for about $11 a bottle.

And Hassouni - let's not overlook plenty of other bourbons which are reasonable priced and are perfectly good. Hello, Old Grand Dad!

[Hassouni]

Mitch, I was going to suggest OGD 114, based on the glowing reviews I've seen, but I've never actually had it...$20 at MoCo, it's on the list

PS, I found out they also have a ton of Pikesville. At 80 proof, how does it fare when mixed?

Edited April 18, 2013 by Hassouni (log)

[Rafa]

OGD 114 is delicious and powerful enough to stand out in cocktails, given both its high rye content and its crazy proof. It's probably too strong to work as a sipper for most people, and its intensity makes it a bad fit for drinks where you want the softness or roundedness of most other bourbons, but overall it's a good investment for cocktailing and a hell of a value. Old Weller 107 is similarly priced and excellent, and its soft, wheated flavor is a better match for some drinks.

[PassionateAmateur]

Thank you all for the wealth of suggestions!

I live in Brooklyn, which is fantastic for booze selection, but miserable for price. (Come to think of it, that pretty much sums up all aspects of NYC life.) I actually have quite a good start on a bar -- but it's got more oddities than standards. With this list I want to both fill in the gaps, and also to be able to serve a crowd without either breaking the bank or shaming myself. I really appreciate the help.

Happy tippling,

Emily

[Rafa]

I don't know where in Brooklyn you live, but BQE Wine & Liquors in Greenpoint has a great selection and the best prices I've found in the city. It's a bit of a walk from the nearest subway stations, though. Astor in Manhattan has an even better selection and great prices too. Trader Joe's in Union Sq has crazy discounts on wine, including sherry. Terrible crowds though.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Rafa (log)

[Hassouni]

I second Astor, as someone who isn't used to NYC prices, their prices are pretty good and selection is great.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Hassouni (log)

[Yojimbo]

I second Astor, as someone who isn't used to NYC prices, their prices are pretty good and selection is great.

I bow to no one in my devotion to Astor and its vast selection, but since we're talkin' Brooklyn, I might add to the list Heights Chateau on Atlantic and DrinkupNY on 4th ave in the south slope, both excellent, with good websites as well. Happy mixing, and wait until you get past the basics and into amari and some of the more obscure liqueurs . . . .

[lesliec]

Hi Emily. Welcome to eG.

We seem to have drawn a blank on dry sherry for you. You're probably not going to do much better (in bang/buck terms) than Tio Pepe, but there I haven't really seen that many cocktails that use it. If your budget is limited (and whose isn't?) you might have more fun with, say, a bottle of Campari.

On the subject of brandy/Cognac, let me throw a curve. Have you tried Spanish brandy? Not sure how the price shapes up in NYC but down here it's (relatively) cheap and tastes great. It's almost worth buying for the names - I like one called Esplendido, and I've also had Fabuloso.

[Snark]

The Lustau Dry Amontillado might work for you as a dry sherry. I've been happy with it (most recently in Tonia Guffey's Teenage Riot, from rogue beta cocktails), and Astor carries it for $16, which doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

Cheers!