Cheese (2008– )

[FrogPrincesse]

How were the dates with the cheese? I've never tried that.

Aged Gruyere is great as is aged Gouda. Both favorites & obtainable here even though they're not really French. ( The French might claim Gruyere, but I think the Swiss have a better story.)

The dates were great. Very sweet. They were good with the cheese and especially good with the drink.

As you may know, French and Swiss gruyères are two different types of cheeses. I feel bad for saying this but the French gruyère (which has holes) is quite rubbery and without much character. I never buy it. On the contrary, Swiss gruyère (no holes) has plenty of character and reminds me of the French cheese comté (which, just to add more confusion, is also called "gruyère de comté") - they are both aged for a long time, which develops flavors (nutty/fruity). Both the Swiss and the French gruyères used to have AOC appellation but recently the French finally dropped theirs after years of debate and confusion (amusing article here)...

[Dave Hatfield]

We're hosting a dinner for all the members of our local wine tasting club this evening and naturally there will be a cheese course.

Here it is:

We're particularly blessed this evening as we have three cheeses from our friend Jacques on the plate. He's from the Auverne where they make some truly great cheese. Our favourite of this lot is the mild blue.

In addition there's some cantal entre deux and some St Felecien.

Finally, just because a certain member keeps asking there's a picture of the bread we'll have with the cheese.

[rotuts]

Im as usual dying here! so delicious and crispy !

so lucky, you and your guests!

I continue to thank you for not putting me over the edge with the Plonk you will enjoy with the above!

here, as it is The Trader, Joe has some Blue Goat Cheese, and its delicious. not available in FR.

its from Wisconsin. its interesting. Blue with a hint of goat.

[rotuts]

BTW which is the cheese on the far L looks like a creamy Blue?

[IowaDee]

Bought a block of the TJ Blue Goat last week. Was told it was a seasonal item and wouldn't be available after

the end of January. Get it while you can because it is good!

[Dave Hatfield]

You'd like it as its not too far off the taste of the Domain de Bresse we discussed a while ago.

Its a Bleu d'Auvergne. Very creamy & mild for a blue.

Alsace I won't mention the Gaillac, Minervois and Bordeau wines or the Crement de Alsace we had with nibbles. No use being sadistic is there?

[rotuts]

I knew that cheese was talking to me !

best i can do, and its not bad is 'home aged' Blue Costello

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castello_cheeses

I find cheese 'left out, covered' for a few days improves the taste dramatically. my kitchen never gets above 60 F in the winter.

at least this works for 'full flavored' cheese Yummy yellow tinge.

cheese a Joe;s runs about 4 - 6 $$/lbs cheaper than other local markets !

[rotuts]

Yum!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/23/dining/creative-cheesemongers-pen-clever-descriptions.html?ref=dining&_r=0

[Dave Hatfield]

I knew that cheese was talking to me !

best i can do, and its not bad is 'home aged' Blue Costello

http://en.wikipedia....astello_cheeses

I find cheese 'left out, covered' for a few days improves the taste dramatically. my kitchen never gets above 60 F in the winter.

at least this works for 'full flavored' cheese Yummy yellow tinge.

cheese a Joe;s runs about 4 - 6 $$/lbs cheaper than other local markets !

Gosh doesn't everybody keep their cheese out of the fridge? I think keeping them there may be a prison offence in France.

I'm exaggerating, but one ideally should keep cheese at around 45-50 degrees F. The fridge is just too cold and kills flavour. This is especially true for soft cheeses. I remember a friend who said he couldn't see what all the fuss about Camembert was about. He thought it didn't have any taste. I advised two days in a cool garage at about 50 F. After that when he tasted it he appreciated what all the fuss was about.

So, please,please don't kill your cheeses with cold. If you don't have a good place to store them at the right temperature then at least take them out of the fridge a day or two before eating. .

[liuzhou]

Good advice Dave, but it does rather depend on the ambient temperature where we live. We aren't all in France.

If I keep my cheese on the counter in summer it is going to hit around 40C (104ºF) and higher. Not the best option for my hard to come by cheese. It will be running down the street. Much better to keep it in the fridge and bring it up to temperature as needed.

Edited January 24, 2013 by liuzhou (log)

[rotuts]

most people who keep cheese in the frig when they don't have to don't understand cheese and have never had 'developed' cheese with crusty bread and red wine. the Troika of fermented foods that in moderation are probably very good for you. they also have cheese as an Hors Doover, which is fine, but does not realize cheese-potential.

BTW in FR do they eat that white 'rind' ? Ive forgotten. I sure do.

Edited January 24, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[TylerK]

I've always taken my cheese out of the fridge long enough for them to come to room temp before eating, but I'm not aware of what leaving them out significantly longer would accomplish if the cheese was purchased properly ripened in the first place. Would one of you mind explaining please? The Cremeux du jura I had last weekend almost turned to liquid by the time it was at room temp.

[rotuts]

it varies from cheese to cheese. get a creamy blue, try it at room temp initially, then leave it out covered for a few days if your kitchen or cupboard is not warm and see.

this works best for full flavored fermented cheese. granted that all non-=fresh cheese is fermented.

then taste it. you might like it or not. its up to you but try it and see.

[TylerK]

Thanks. I'll give it a try for sure. Can you recommend a blue that this would work well with? I live in a condo, so preferably (if possible) one that won't have my neighbours knocking on my door wondering if someone died

[rotuts]

I like blue Costello.

http://en.wikipedia....astello_cheeses

its the cheese in the picture at the R. its readily available, not over priced, etc. its full-flavored and creamy.

if you like the results, and want something Brie/Camembert like these a fantastic and as good or better than what you can get on average in FR:

http://www.vtcheese....blythedale.html

ive never had both the brie and camembert at the same time so I cant tell you about the difference, but I love them both. they might be hard to find in your area, but well worth an investigation.

if you have access to them, they are dated on the bottom. get the oldest one you can find. leave it 'out' for a few days and taste and leave it out coverd for a little more.

is there a Trader Joe's near you? they have fair selection and are much cheaper than other stores. they do not unfortunately have the VT. cheeses above.

they do have Costello and its about 4 $ / lb cheaper and is the same thing as other markets!

let us know how its going!

PS: when trying Camembert and Brie types, don't worry too much where it comes from initially, See what your supermarket or Trader Joe's has. get the 'triple creme' or look over the wedges and get the one that is the least firm and with 'bulging' centers. and keep the blue away from the other cheeses and always keep covered so they do not try out.

Edited January 24, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

my 'regular store' ie not Joe the Trader, seems to have the

Bleu d'Auvergne

Ill get a tranche and bring it to life at R.Temp

thanks!

[TylerK]

I like blue Costello.

http://en.wikipedia....astello_cheeses

its the cheese in the picture at the R. its readily available, not over priced, etc. its full-flavored and creamy.

if you like the results, and want something Brie/Camembert like these a fantastic and as good or better than what you can get on average in FR:

http://www.vtcheese....blythedale.html

ive never had both the brie and camembert at the same time so I cant tell you about the difference, but I love them both. they might be hard to find in your area, but well worth an investigation.

if you have access to them, they are dated on the bottom. get the oldest one you can find. leave it 'out' for a few days and taste and leave it out coverd for a little more.

is there a Trader Joe's near you? they have fair selection and are much cheaper than other stores. they do not unfortunately have the VT. cheeses above.

they do have Costello and its about 4 $ / lb cheaper and is the same thing as other markets!

let us know how its going!

PS: when trying Camembert and Brie types, don't worry too much where it comes from initially, See what your supermarket or Trader Joe's has. get the 'triple creme' or look over the wedges and get the one that is the least firm and with 'bulging' centers. and keep the blue away from the other cheeses and always keep covered so they do not try out.

No Trader Joe's up here in Toronto as far as I'm aware, but thankfully access to great cheeses from around the world is not an issue. I have a large indoor market within walking distance to me with several great cheese vendors. They have more blues that I even knew existed. Even most local grocery stores around here carry a decent selection of imported cheeses (including the Bleu D'Auvergne). I'll pick up something to try next time I'm there.

[nickrey]

Brie and Camembert are made in exactly the same way. The difference in France is that they come from different milks. In places other than France they often simulate a Brie by adding some cream to the milk before making. The double and triple bries simply have more cream added. Any of these cheeses should be matured such that the centre is soft (this is done by letting the mould on the rind extend its filaments to the centre of the cheese, it is also why the cheeses are of a uniform thickness in large or small wheels. There is a limit to the distance that the mould can extend its filaments. Too thick and you get a chalky interior. If these cheeses get too old, they develop an unpleasant ammonia smell in the rind.

[rotuts]

there is another issue that is 'current' with all cheese, artisan or not: its expensive to keep the cheese to properly mature, and thus not make a profit today. Its much more profitable to sell the cheese early, loosing a great bit of character. There is a lot of 'bank' pressure on the product.

I cant say for sure, but the a lot of cheese that used to be stunningly good might not be as good now based on economic factors in the current 'make the money now' climate.

some of this, but by all means not all of it, might be corrected by aging a little bit at home.

[Dave Hatfield]

Good advice Dave, but it does rather depend on the ambient temperature where we live. We aren't all in France.

If I keep my cheese on the counter in summer it is going to hit around 40C (104ºF) and higher. Not the best option for my hard to come by cheese. It will be running down the street. Much better to keep it in the fridge and bring it up to temperature as needed.

most people who keep cheese in the frig when they don't have to don't understand cheese and have never had 'developed' cheese with crusty bread and red wine. the Troika of fermented foods that in moderation are probably very good for you. they also have cheese as an Hors Doover, which is fine, but does not realize cheese-potential.

BTW in FR do they eat that white 'rind' ? Ive forgotten. I sure do.

I hear you about the 40 degrees. In our part of France we too get up to 40 on some days & high 30's are not at all uncommon.

You just have to try & find a cool place somewhere in the house. We're lucky in that we have an old fridge (small one) up in the garage. We keep it turned up and use it to store both cheese and white wines.

chaqu'un a son gout! as they say. I've seen it both ways by the French; some eat the rind & some don't. Personally, I eat the rind on most soft cheeses.

[Dave Hatfield]

Brie and Camembert are made in exactly the same way. The difference in France is that they come from different milks. In places other than France they often simulate a Brie by adding some cream to the milk before making. The double and triple bries simply have more cream added. Any of these cheeses should be matured such that the centre is soft (this is done by letting the mould on the rind extend its filaments to the centre of the cheese, it is also why the cheeses are of a uniform thickness in large or small wheels. There is a limit to the distance that the mould can extend its filaments. Too thick and you get a chalky interior. If these cheeses get too old, they develop an unpleasant ammonia smell in the rind.

Different breeds of cow and different areas. Normandy (Camembert) is further West, has more rain & thus richer pastures. Isle de France (Brie) is around Paris & thus somewhat drier. Also, the fact that Brie is made in large rounds whereas Camembert is made in small ones changes their flavour since in Camembert the mould can reach all the way to the centre of the round.

To be at their best both cheeses must be made from unpasteurised milk. This makes it difficult at times to get the real thing in the states.

With Brie you want to get a Brie de Meaux or a Brie de Melun if at all possible. With Camembert you need to try and find a Camembert de Normandy. In both cases these designations require that the cheese be made with unpasteurised milk.These are without question the two best varieties.

The 'industrial' varieties are hardly worth bothering with.

[FrogPrincesse]

A typical cheese platter during my recent stay in France.

Starting at the 1 o'clock position and going clockwise: Selles sur Cher, Camembert de Normandie, Crottin de Chavignol (very tasty specimen), Vacherin, a tiny piece of Comte in the middle at the tip of the cheese knife, and my favorite, a perfectly ripe Saint Marcellin from La Mère Richard in Lyon. We had to buy several of these Saint Marcellin because our cat stole and ate the first one (!) and because they were so good.

[Dave Hatfield]

Nice looking selection. Unless I miss counted you didn't name the cheese at the top left (11 O'clock to use your methodology).

If I'm right and it isn't named perhaps a friendly eGullet competition is in order.

NAME THAT CHEESE!

The prize being everlasting fame & glory on this forum.

I have a few ideas, but won't put them out quite yet.

[rotuts]

gobble gobble. every one is more lucky than me. i use The Trader exclusively but will trysometing new there.

when I see Rupert on the cheese thread I fasten my seat-belt!

thank you for your kindness is not showing the Crusty Loaf, and the Plonk you had with it.

Edited March 2, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[FrogPrincesse]

Nice looking selection. Unless I miss counted you didn't name the cheese at the top left (11 O'clock to use your methodology).

If I'm right and it isn't named perhaps a friendly eGullet competition is in order.

NAME THAT CHEESE!

The prize being everlasting fame & glory on this forum.

I have a few ideas, but won't put them out quite yet.

Sorry, I forgot to respond earlier. Top left is the Saint Marcellin of course! I still have dreams about it, it was fabulous.