Sous vide short ribs, times, and temperatures

[pbear]

Speaking of references, here's an index to all the USDA spec documents, called Institutional Meat Purchase Specifications.  Both the article I found and scubadoo's refer to cuts by their IMPS number.  The other docs cover lamb, veal, pork, etc.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Thanks for all the references.  After twenty four hours (well, after twenty five hours, actually) I bumped the temperature from 54 deg C to 60.5 deg C to finish.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

And tonight was the test.  These ribs were cooked for a day at 54 deg C and then two more days at 60.5 deg C.  The idea of an initial lower temperature came from Dave Arnold's blog.  This is to allow enzymes to degrade the meat similar to dry aging.

 

The temperature of 60.5 deg C came from lesliec.  I am not sure how he came up with it but leslie's 60.5 deg has worked well for me in the past.  I seared a rib in an almost flaming pan with a film of grapeseed oil.  Thereby setting off the smoke detector.

 

I served the rib with mashed potato, sautéed baby portobello mushrooms with garlic, and thirty second steamed haricots verts...since I don't mind being pretentious.

 

This was the apotheosis of beef.  It did not require even salt.  A sauce might have been interesting but I'm not sure what.

 

 

Edit:  P.S. it wasn't mealy.

Edited January 20, 2015 by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

[torolover]

Did you take any pictures of the meat before sous vide and after sous vide?  Did you determine what kind of short ribs you cooked, despite the label on the package?  Did it have a bone?

 

So does this confirm the enzyme that causes mealy meat doesn't exist at 60.5C?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Did you take any pictures of the meat before sous vide and after sous vide?  Did you determine what kind of short ribs you cooked, despite the label on the package?  Did it have a bone?

 

So does this confirm the enzyme that causes mealy meat doesn't exist at 60.5C?

[Mendel C-k]

Did 75h @ 54C.

Tried to get Serratus Anterior (Ventralis) but all the butchers in my area only had hindquarter cuts (SA inferiormost attachment at eighth rib) 

However, spontaneous trip to what can only be described as the Vietnamese pocket of Melbourne yielded ribs from 5-7, but flaken cut.

Decided better to get the right muscle, and fix presentation later so got them and removed the meat, rolled them and SV @ 54 for 3days

Made a stock out of the ribs, intercostals and thin layer of Lat. Dorsi that was left (onions, bicarb, anise, deglazing with sweet vermouth then carrots, roasted ribs water, a few shiitake, some instant dashi) then reduced 15x to thick glaze and added a tiny bit of xanthan to emulsify the tiny bits of fat that I couldn't sieve out.

Took the SV meat out of bags and blowtorched to serve

The meat was good, definitely a different mouthfeel than most others. Really tender and juicy, but not "watery" like you can get from the real tender cuts (though this is perhaps because I like my tender cuts cooked rare). A much richer feel with a deeper, "meatier" flavour, though this was probably augmented by the demi-glace. I think dense is a apt word for the meat. 

 

This is probably explained by the myology.

 

FWIW the compositions (found by one group) of Ribeye (longissimus (Erector spinae)) Fat/Moisture/Protein/Ash = .08/.7/.2/.01 (numbers truncated thus don't add to 1) and Serratus Anterior (Ventralis) = .12/.69/.18/.01

 

I think trimming really well is an important step. I cleaned all facia, all subcutaneous and extra-muscular fat as best as I could. 

If I wanted to improve, I'd probably try and get a thicker cut of the muscle so I didn't have to roll it but really not too much else I would do. Except serve it with some marrow (costa are haematopoetic and thus no yellow marrow   )

 

IMHO I don't really get the idea of keeping them on the bone. The intercostals and Lat.Dorsi which run ventrally and dorsally are quite different and thus having inconsistent textures/flavours would probably ensue. Similarly, these along with the bones are great for making a stock and thus demi-glace for the beef, so no need to buy beef bones. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by Mendel C-k (log)

[FeChef]

I stumbled across chefsteps time/texture videos and I noticed, aswell as another person that no matter what temp their short ribs were cooked at, they were really dark pink. The person had asked if they were cured but had not got any responce. Now i have cooked short ribs about 6 times and everytime was hit or miss and i came to the conclusion it was most likely the grade/type of short rib. Some were great some terrible. I just picked up a vacuum packed bone in short ribs that are i nice thickness (roughly 2 inch thick with bone) I am hoping for a good turn out, but in the past 36 hours at 134-136F gave me great and terrible mealy/dry results. I hate waisting so much time and money on this inconsistent cut of beef.

[Mendel C-k]

I stumbled across chefsteps time/texture videos and I noticed, aswell as another person that no matter what temp their short ribs were cooked at, they were really dark pink. The person had asked if they were cured but had not got any responce. Now i have cooked short ribs about 6 times and everytime was hit or miss and i came to the conclusion it was most likely the grade/type of short rib. Some were great some terrible. I just picked up a vacuum packed bone in short ribs that are i nice thickness (roughly 2 inch thick with bone) I am hoping for a good turn out, but in the past 36 hours at 134-136F gave me great and terrible mealy/dry results. I hate waisting so much time and money on this inconsistent cut of beef.

 

I would assume myology is to blame here if all other variables are being kept constant

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I would assume myology is to blame here if all other variables are being kept constant

[FeChef]

I would assume myology is to blame here if all other variables are being kept constant

I never brine or salt beef if its going to be cooked longer then 2 hours. Other then salting and high temperatures, what else is going to cause extreme juice/blood loss? Because to me it sounds like your implying chefsteps dark red color is somehow related to minimal loss of juices/blood?

 

Maybe i should have been more clear, even there 24 hour @ 185F short ribs were dark red. That just doesnt seem possible without some sort of curing.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My most recent ribs were a success.  After reheating the ribs sous vide I seared them (not sure why the plural as I'm talking about a section of a single rib) with grape seed oil as previously.  However rather than adding the oil to the hot pan before the meat, this time I lightly rubbed the meat with oil before adding the meat to the hot pan.  This resulted in nice color without setting off the smoke detector.

 

[FeChef]

My most recent ribs were a success.  After reheating the ribs sous vide I seared them (not sure why the plural as I'm talking about a section of a single rib) with grape seed oil as previously.  However rather than adding the oil to the hot pan before the meat, this time I lightly rubbed the meat with oil before adding the meat to the hot pan.  This resulted in nice color without setting off the smoke detector.

 

All i see is the top of a short rib. The top looks good, but you really need to show the inside to impress pretty much everyone on this forum that has cooked the elusive perfect short rib.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The inside is inside me.  However there is one more bag in the refrigerator.

[scubadoo97]

Short ribs done 60.5C X 72 hrs.

Carved off the bone

Seared and plated

Didn't get a chance to get a pic after cutting in but they were quite pink as you can see from the presear, soft and a little flaky

[slkinsey]

I stumbled across chefsteps time/texture videos and I noticed, aswell as another person that no matter what temp their short ribs were cooked at, they were really dark pink. The person had asked if they were cured but had not got any responce.

 

I'm not sure what you mean.  In the discussion to the article, Robv asks, "Are you all using nitrate to keep the meat the color in the video?" and Chris Young replies, "Yes, the nitrate enhances the meaty flavor and also keeps the myoglobin a bright red color."

[FeChef]

I'm not sure what you mean.  In the discussion to the article, Robv asks, "Are you all using nitrate to keep the meat the color in the video?" and Chris Young replies, "Yes, the nitrate enhances the meaty flavor and also keeps the myoglobin a bright red color."

I did not see that article. I found there videos through youtube. They did not mention the use of nitrates in the videos and people that asked, they never responded. Maybe they should rename there article/videos to "corned" or "cured" short ribs.

 

nitrates produce a totally different flavor profile, to say "enhances" is a joke.

[slkinsey]

I'm not sure I agree that the use of nitrates produces a "corned" flavor in this context. In my experience salt is mostly what is responsible for that flavor.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Dinner tonight was the last of my last batch of sous vide short ribs.  Wonderful as (almost) always.  I love how one can pasteurize food sous vide and store it in the refrigerator for months on end.

[Kerry Beal]

Costco had some absolutely lovely boneless short rib pieces - so into the bath at 54.5º C for the next 72 hours. 

 

 

 

Shall report back.

[Okanagancook]

Fall has arrived and the meals are changing!

it is hard to find good short ribs.  Our local favourite butcher has great ones most of the time.  They have the whole rack vac sealed from their supplier.  I once bought ribs from another place and they were terrible. Just not as flavourful and a bit too fatty for our liking.

[btbyrd]

Seems like people in this thread have had bad luck with short ribs. I've never, and I mean NEVER, had bad luck with short ribs. I either go 48hrs @ 60C or 72hrs @ 54C. Either way, the results are great. 

 

Frites with Triple Cooked Chips. (This was my wife's portion, which explains the ketchup instead of mayonnaise).

 

 

MC 72HR short rib with Sweet/Sour/Savory Glaze and the beef-thread/fried shallot "salad":

 

 

72hr short ribs, deboned, trimmed, and portioned into cubes... waiting for the deep fryer:

 

 

Deep fried short ribs with Asian-infused shortrib demiglace, cilantro/chive macadamia nut oil, lime-infused cucumber planks:

 

 

 

I'm making me hungry.

 

 

[btbyrd]

2 hours ago, Kenneth Tong said:

Very impressed. I am going to buy a Wire Rack today cause of this. How did your Modernist Recipe fare?! 

 

Thanks! Wire racks are super-useful. They make them in both half-sheet and quarter-sheet pan sizes. I have several in each size. It's the best place to rest seared meat before plating because the crust won't get soggy. It's also good for resting fried foods because excess oil will drain off and your food won't be swimming in grease.

 

The MC recipe is great; that glaze is especially fantastic. It takes a lot of work though... the demiglace is made from pressure cooked oxtail stock that's reduced 90% to a thick syrup and then infused with tamarind paste, fresh herbs, and some spices. The crispy beef threads and shallot "salad" are also tossed in the glaze. It's worth the effort. The worst part of the recipe is making the crispy beef threads. You basically cut flank steak into strips and marinate it in soy/fish sauce. Then you dehydrate the beef in the microwave. Because of the fish sauce, this step makes your house smell like rotting fish for a day or so. After it's dehydrated, you have to pull the fibers of the muscle into individual strands. This takes for-ev-er. Seriously. Forever. The final steps of the dish come together very nicely though. You deep fry your short ribs, deep fry thinly sliced shallots, and deep fry the dehydrated beef threads. Toss the shallots and beef threads together with some herbs and the demi glace, and plate, plate, plate. It is freaking delicious. Tastes so good, makes you wanna slap your mama.

[BeefStewpid]

So I'm attempting beef short ribs for the second time.  The first time I abandoned, perhaps a wee bit too hastily, as a result of the temperature dropping to 104 overnight due to a brown-out.  I made a thread about it the other day.

 

 

This time I used a UPS and there was indeed another brown out, and it hummed along nicely as a result, so that's good.

 

However, this time there's a funky smell in the water.  I don't recall this happening the first time.  

 

I went ahead and sealed it in a second bag last night.  This morning when I checked on it, a small amount of bone and flesh was actually above the water, due to some gas in the bag.  I don't know if that gas formed over night or was already in there.  But I don't know what the safety implications of that are.

 

Soooo I decided to reseal the outer bag.  When I opened it up, it smelled unbearably funky.  Doing some research the smell is very consistent with lactobacillus particularly between the two bags.  I opened up the inner bag and it didn't smell too bad, in fact, I think the smells I was getting were the faint smells already in the air from the outer bag.  

 

I changed out the outer bag and resealed it nicely.  It has sunk back down to the bottom of the bath and is still chugging along.  

 

Two differences from the first attempt that I think don't matter: covered with cling wrap instead of foil, and moved it to a part of the house that happens to be colder.

 

Some details:

 

In the bag, two short ribs.  They are touching.  about 2 tablespoons of butter, a pinch of salt and a pinch of pepper.

135 F

Noticed faint funkiness about 12 hours in.  Ignored it.  

24 hours in I decided to double bag because of smell.  

36 hours in I noticed a small piece of bone/flesh above the water level.  Resealed outer bag and noticed intense funkiness between bags

 

 

 

[rotuts]

@BeefStewpid  

 

Kudos your way your are continue to persevere

 

what king of bags are you using ?

 

Ive only used vacuum sealed bags  and with those Ive never had gas

 

sometimes  , seasoning or what ever gets on the lip of the bag  and that might be why you have ' smells '

 

with a vacuum system, either regular or chamber  I try to remember to wipe the tops.

 

are you doing reasonable  hand washing etc ?

 

is it On Sale Meat ?

 

I hope you keep trying , but what wrong is either in your Meat or your bagging system or keeping things very clean

 

keep trying

 

cheers

 

[BeefStewpid]

@rotuts ZipLoc freezer bags.  Just using the water submersion method for sealing.  Hands washed well.  Meat was not on sale meat, was fresh cuts from Whole Foods.