Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011

[Robert Jueneman]

Sauce for brisket?

I'm trying to decide on a sauce for the medium rare sous vide brisket for my forthcoming class. I DON'T want a BBQ sauce, but something more classy/classical. The accompanying veggies (so far) will be sauteed salsify, Moroccan carrots, and a small serving of mushroom risotto.

Last night, I tried making the mustard sauce from the iSi "The Trick With The Whip." It called for 125 mm of veal veloute (for which I substituted the au jus from the cooked brisket), 200 ml of heavy cream, 40 g of Dijon mustard, 6 g of mustard powder, and a whopping 640 ml of water, poured into a cream whipper and charged with two cream chargers. (Since I was using a 500 ml ThermoWhip, I cut the proportions in half.)

What a disaster!

When I tried to release some of the foam onto a plate, it splattered everything within about a two foot radius!

I think the sauce was way too thin, and it perhaps could have been made without any water at all, then adding a bit to thin it out if necessary.

Another possibility might be the button mushroom espuma, from the same book. It calls for 250 g of mushrooms, 250 ml of heavy cream, 300 ml of veal stock, 90 ml of white wine, 90 g of creme fraiche, 1 tbsp of cornstarch, 2 shallots, and 2 tbsp of vegetable oil, and one sheet of gelatin if necessary. That sounds elegant, but it might be too creamy for the meat.

I'm inclined to think that the mustard sauce would add just the right amount of bite to perk up the rather bland brisket, if I can adjust the consistency.

Any other ideas or suggestions?

That sounds like a typo in the recipe by a factor of 10. I would try it without any water and only add some if the first shot was too thick.

That was my thought as well, Paul.

Interestingly, iSi has a recipe web site, at www.espumas.com. There they have the same recipe, cut in half for a smaller container, but with the same proportions. So if it's a typo, and I have to believe it is, then they've compounded the error.

I tried it without any water at all, and it was quite nice. Not too sharp, and not too bland.

Bob

[slkinsey]

You might try lowering the temp, too. I recall MC's recommendation for pork ribs is 60C for 48 hours.

The issue with the prolonged time, for me, is scheduling. I find such long times a bit of an issue with my life-style. But thanks for this suggestion. I did note that even Douglas Baldwin offered a longer time/lower temperature option.

One of the great things about LT/LT sous vide where you have pasteurized the food is that you can do cook/chill. This creates more opportunities for convenience. Cook the ribs for 48 hours and rapidly chill them down in an ice bath. After that, you can keep them in the back of the refrigerator for around 10 days, or in the freezer more or less indefinitely.

I have found that many sous vide cooked meats freeze very well, by the way. I regularly bag, cook SV and freeze whole deboned spatchcocked chickens. Then, whenever I want chicken for dinner, I have only to toss the vacuum-sealed chicken into a sink of cold water to thaw and then crisp the skin and rewarm the chicken however I like (broiler, torch, frypan, whatever).

[e_monster]

Hi Anna,

I have found that 6 to 7 hours at 75C creates very tender ribs that will slip off the bone but don't immediately fall off the bone. So, they are tender but can still be handled. I like to smoke them for about 15 minutes before bagging them but have also put a little bit of liquid smoke and brine in the bag if time doesn't permit me to smoke them.

Best,

Edward

You might try lowering the temp, too. I recall MC's recommendation for pork ribs is 60C for 48 hours.

The issue with the prolonged time, for me, is scheduling. I find such long times a bit of an issue with my life-style. But thanks for this suggestion. I did note that even Douglas Baldwin offered a longer time/lower temperature option.

One of the great things about LT/LT sous vide where you have pasteurized the food is that you can do cook/chill. This creates more opportunities for convenience. Cook the ribs for 48 hours and rapidly chill them down in an ice bath. After that, you can keep them in the back of the refrigerator for around 10 days, or in the freezer more or less indefinitely.

I have found that many sous vide cooked meats freeze very well, by the way. I regularly bag, cook SV and freeze whole deboned spatchcocked chickens. Then, whenever I want chicken for dinner, I have only to toss the vacuum-sealed chicken into a sink of cold water to thaw and then crisp the skin and rewarm the chicken however I like (broiler, torch, frypan, whatever).

[Anna N]

One of the great things about LT/LT sous vide where you have pasteurized the food is that you can do cook/chill. This creates more opportunities for convenience. Cook the ribs for 48 hours and rapidly chill them down in an ice bath. After that, you can keep them in the back of the refrigerator for around 10 days, or in the freezer more or less indefinitely.

I have found that many sous vide cooked meats freeze very well, by the way. I regularly bag, cook SV and freeze whole deboned spatchcocked chickens. Then, whenever I want chicken for dinner, I have only to toss the vacuum-sealed chicken into a sink of cold water to thaw and then crisp the skin and rewarm the chicken however I like (broiler, torch, frypan, whatever).

I have done both - fridge and freezer on a variety of meats and it is one of the most appealing things about S-V cooking, however, it is that initial long time cooking that I want to get away from when I can. Thank you for your input.

[Anna N]

Hi Anna,

I have found that 6 to 7 hours at 75C creates very tender ribs that will slip off the bone but don't immediately fall off the bone. So, they are tender but can still be handled. I like to smoke them for about 15 minutes before bagging them but have also put a little bit of liquid smoke and brine in the bag if time doesn't permit me to smoke them.

Best,

Edward

Thank you Edward. I have made a note to try the 75C 6-7 hours on my next attempt. The shorter cooking times work so much better for my schedule.

Edited to fix spelling.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Anna N (log)

[EnriqueB]

My first attempt at a tough cut sous-vide was nothing less than Glazed Oxtail (6-90), 100 hours at 60ºC. Oooohhh, I think I'll never go back to stews for tough cuts, what a difference in flavor and texture! For comparison, with half the oxtail I made the braised recipe in TK's French Laundry, SV wins by a huge advantage. And the glaze, after four concentration steps (stock, jus, cook with the oxtail, reduce) was pure beef flavor, delicious.

[rotuts]

those OT's look delicious! they are very hard to find around here. BJ's has some frozen I wanted to try but they are hardly form Ox! more like little cows !

i bet the flavor greatly increases with the age of the tail.

your times seem very long: Ive done shoulder at 72 hrs at 131 F and much of it was very tender, and with great beef taste. some was mealy and livery. its really hard to tell

BTW: noting where your are from, have you been to any of the restaurants next to the Plaza de Toro and had Toro-tail?

id love to hear what thats like

now there is some Beef!

[EnriqueB]

Real oxtails here are usually served to restaurants only, I had to order specially at my butcher, it was not cheap but worth the price.

Time & recipe comes from Modernist Cuisine, really long time but the result was excellent.

Yes, I've tried bull-tail, it's an wonderful dish, the meat is a bit tougher than oxtail but with much collagen and really tasteful when properly cooked.

[rotuts]

lucky you!

maybe you should try to get a Toro-tail and SV that!

[Oysterqueen]

Can plastic margarine/mayo/oil pails be used for sous vide water baths? Sorry if this has been discussed before, I came up with nothing searching. I just got a Sous Vide Professional and tried it out clamped on the side of a stock pot, it worked great for salmon, which is all I tried so far. We needed the the stockpot for other things so my water bath got quickly dumped. So I was going to get another stock pot, but then it occured to me that we have dozens of clean pails that might be used for the sous vide water bath. They are obviously food grade but I'm wondering if the plastic would degrade with use in a prolonged hot water bath. Does anyone have any experience with this? These are the white plastic 5-gal buckets that margarine, mayonnaise and vegetable oil get shipped in, if it works it would be ideal because I can cut a hole in the plastic lid to accommodate the circulator and mimimize evaporation. Plus they're free and stock pots cost $$.

[rotuts]

consider a dedicated Beer Cooler like the coleman coolers.

you cut out an opening in the top which is BTW not insulated to fit closely the SVP.

the lids come off the pivot in the back so you can place them over the set up from the top down fitting the SVP first. then use a little packing tape to seal the sides and the SVP opening so its 'water proof'

that way you lose no water over a 72 hr SV and then cover with a blanket to save even more energy.

[cbread]

I believe you could use your food grade plastic buckets. Why not?

If you add insulation around the sides and bottom, you'll save energy - and I suspect keep a more stable temperature but experts would have to confirm that.

Some people use floating ping pong balls to insulate the water surface. You can drop food in and pull food out without pausing to remove and replace a top.

[Jan Virtanen]

I have a bunch of beef fat that i would like to render, what temp would you recommend?

Also what would be a good temp for cooking marrow bone sous vide?

[ScottyBoy]

Both those topics are covered in the Sous Vide Index that we all have contributed to. It's a fantastic resource!

[Oysterqueen]

Well I tried it, a 10 litre no-transfat margarine bucket that was about the same size as the stock pot. It didn't soften or melt but unfortunately the small (about 1") space under the circulator seemed to attract the bags (tried steak today) and they seemed to get stuck underneath. I wasn't sure if it would be a problem (is it?). I kept pulling them out and then finally I put an upside down saucer directly under the circulator to reduce the space, that worked.

[PedroG]

To keep the bags in place and vertical, place a glass bead or glass rod or marble in the bag's bottom and suspend the bags on a skewer. To make a suitable skewer, use 3mm or 4mm SS wire from a hardware store or a farming supplies store, bend to fit your container, and sharpen one end to facilitate piercing the bag. Suspension also facilitates retrieval of the bag without scalding your hands.

[EnriqueB]

I was really curious about beef short-ribs, well known to be one of the best cuts for long sous-vide. They are not available in Spain, where we usually eat veal --whose ribs are not marbled at all-- rather than beef.

So I ordered some Angus Black prime short-ribs brought from the US to my butcher and put them in the water bath for 70 hours at 60ºC with some veal stock (following Modernist Cuisine recipe). We were all impressed by the tender result, a meat that almost melts in your mouth! Definitively a well-deserved fame.

[mharpo]

This is my temporary solution to keeping it vertical. New to the Sous Vide thing and have picked many tips here. Thanks to all! Thankfully, there are binder clips in the house. St. Louis cut spare ribs suspended on rods through holes drilled through Cambro tub. I've double up the tub for better insulation.

[ScottyBoy]

Awesome setup.

I'll be picking up some kobe coulotte steak tomorrow. Anyone had experience with this cut CSV?

[Justin Uy]

Good evening all,

I've just recently started cooking SV, and I had a quick food safety question.

I just dropped a few short ribs into my setup, and after about an hour and a half, I noticed that two of the bags were leaking at the vacuum "port" (I'm currently using the Ziploc vacuum system).

I pulled those pieces and rebagged them, but that got me to thinking. What are the food safety implications of having a small leak in a bag? And is there any problem with me taking out the protein and rebagging it?

Thanks much

[gfweb]

The food contaminated the bath and vice versa. The food safety answer is throw it all out. But If the temp of the water was high enough eg 56c it ought to be ok if cooked long enough. I d use pasteurizing temps and times to be safe.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[mharpo]

I'm certainly not an expert in this area, but if I had a leaky bag, I'd toss the contents. If caught quickly though, I'd think you could throw whatever leaked into another bag, not under vacuum, into an ice bath, let it chill, vacuum again and start anew. That would go for everything though, since you'd really need to toss the water. To my way of thinking, if you're cooking sous vide and you smell what you're cooking, you've got problems. A good seal is probably THE most important thing, from what I know, such as it is... Aside from time and temp, of course... (the edit)

Edited September 20, 2011 by mharpo (log)

[mgaretz]

I'm certainly not an expert in this area, but if I had a leaky bag, I'd toss the contents. If caught quickly though, I'd think you could throw whatever leaked into another bag, not under vacuum, into an ice bath, let it chill, vacuum again and start anew. That would go for everything though, since you'd really need to toss the water. To my way of thinking, if you're cooking sous vide and you smell what you're cooking, you've got problems. A good seal is probably THE most important thing, from what I know, such as it is... Aside from time and temp, of course... (the edit)

First, I'm not an expert either, but vacuum bags are still somewhat permeable. They will let some, albeit very small, amount of moisture and gases in and out - and I expect that is exacerbated by the higher temps from cooking sous vide. Especially with longer cooking times you will smell some of the aromatics - at least I have. I also suspect that a good deal of this odor comes from the area above the seal (outside the bag) where you will invariably have some amount of food/liquid/whatever residue.

So when I cook something with a lot of aromatics for a longer time - say baby backs with smoke flavor for 24 hours - you can certainly smell it when I take the lid off the bath. But there are no leaks in my bags.

Last, and maybe I'm missing something, if the whole bath is at the cooking temperature and the bags were leaky, I can understand that flavors might intermingle and/or be diluted and the food might not be what you wanted from the excess water contact, but why would it be unsafe?

Anyway, I think it's normal to "smell what you're cooking" some of the time and doesn't necessarily mean you have problems.

[rotuts]

i use the thicker Weston bag.

no air or water transverses this bad that been shown by freezer test which I way I got this system

both for the SV food and to freeze green coffee beans with no leakage

some times there is an aroma, but in my case I thinks its because a tiny bit of the rub/aromatics got on the outside of the bag into the water

most of my (few) long SV's (72hrs) there is no aroma at all

[gfweb]

When cooking corned beef I invariably smell allspice and clove. I'm assuming that it leaches thru the plastic since the bags are always intact. FWIW I use zip locks for this.