Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011

[ScottyBoy]

No I just say skin side for a reference, It's skinned before bagging. But I have found it's very easy to trim the skin after cooking since it turns so soft. I'm just looking to make the most evenly flat surface possible.

[lesliec]

Yesterday I extracted the cheeks from a pig's head (it's OK, it was dead).

I have a beef cheek time/temp I'm very happy with (30 hours @ 70°C), but it occurred to me that pigs, not being ruminants, might not have quite the amount of tough stuff in their cheeks needing to be broken down. Anybody care to comment and recommend some settings?

ScottyBoy, I envy your belly. If you know what I mean ...

[Merridith]

Are the cheeks still in the jowls? I leave the whole thing together (cheeks are inside jowls) and I cure it all for guanciale. Pork cheeks themselves are rather small, the whole jowl, on the other hand can be quite large and it makes the best cured pork. Do you have a photo?

[lesliec]

Hi Merridith.

Yep, jowls and all. I hadn't heard of guanciale until now - might give it a try. Have you got a favourite recipe? (The objects are frozen right now, but that's easily fixed.)

Thanks,

Leslie

[Twyst]

I'm having difficulties getting a really nice crispy skin on duck breasts after cooking sous vide. Anyone have any tips for this, I never was a master of getting a really crispy skin on them cooked traditionally either, but I'm getting a less crispy skin after cooking them sous vide. I find that cooking them from cold allows me to cook them a little longer without overcooking the meat, but I'm really failing on getting a super crispy skin.

[Merridith]

Guanciale is the traditional "bacon" used for spaghetti carbonara. It is a fantastic thing for using to make little crispy bits for garnishes, etc. Incredible in Mac & Cheese, perfect on a fancy salad, and most commonly used in a pasta Amatricana (sp?), and I love it in potato dishes.

It is EASY to make. I roughly follow Michael Ruhlman's recipe out of Charcuterie. The traditional seasoning is fresh thyme. I use lots of it but I also add juniper berries and pepper. Just put the cure in a ziplock bag with the jowl and leave it for about a week to 10 days - you will know when it is right because the meat/fat will feel rather hard. Take it out of the fridge, wash it off thoroughly and then hang it from a rack in the fridge so that it can dry out well. I usually hang it for another couple of weeks. Guanciale does not traditionally get smoked like many other types of bacon.

I slice it into 3" square chunks and bag them separately with the Food Saver. You can freeze the stuff forever. It is a real treat.

Let me know if you need the specific cure proportions and I will look them up for you.

Oh, and one important thing to know: make sure you get all of the salivary glands out of the jowel before you cure it. These glands will make the product have an off taste or be bitter.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Merridith (log)

[e_monster]

I'm having difficulties getting a really nice crispy skin on duck breasts after cooking sous vide. Anyone have any tips for this, I never was a master of getting a really crispy skin on them cooked traditionally either, but I'm getting a less crispy skin after cooking them sous vide. I find that cooking them from cold allows me to cook them a little longer without overcooking the meat, but I'm really failing on getting a super crispy skin.

I think the consensus is that you need to cook the skin separately if you want truly excellent crispy skin. It has been recommended to me that one remove the skin before cooking sous-vide and then place the skin between two silpats and cook at 350F (with the top silpat weighted down). Torches don't work well for crisping poultry skin. I have had ok but not great results by cooking the duck with the skin on sous-vide then letting the duck rest for a little while and then sticking under the broiler. The result was great meat and ok (but not great skin). It seems to me that the sous-vide cooking does something to the skin that prevents it from crisping in the same way as skin that hasn't been cooked sous-vide.

[ChrisZ]

Just thought I'd share a post sous vide cooking technique with you that I used on pork belly yesterday.

I cooked it sous vide al a Thomas Keller at around 82C for 12 hours then chilled in ice water...

Hi Nick,

Just wondering how you arrived at the 82C - 12 hour combination? Is it directly from Thomas Keller? I've found a number of time/temperature combinations in the archives but mostly around 60C and for 36+ hours. I'm guessing you've cooked many pork bellies and I'd be interested to learn from your experience. I've got one brining in the fridge at the moment...

[nickrey]

Just thought I'd share a post sous vide cooking technique with you that I used on pork belly yesterday.

I cooked it sous vide al a Thomas Keller at around 82C for 12 hours then chilled in ice water...

Hi Nick,

Just wondering how you arrived at the 82C - 12 hour combination? Is it directly from Thomas Keller? I've found a number of time/temperature combinations in the archives but mostly around 60C and for 36+ hours. I'm guessing you've cooked many pork bellies and I'd be interested to learn from your experience. I've got one brining in the fridge at the moment...

It's almost a direct lift from "Under Pressure," Keller uses 82.2C for 12 hours. Interestingly, the recipe is not indexed as pork belly; instead it appears as part of the "degustation de porcelet, rutabaga mostardo, wilted mustard greens, and potato "mille feuille," p. 156 in my edition.

[Twyst]

It's almost a direct lift from "Under Pressure," Keller uses 82.2C for 12 hours. Interestingly, the recipe is not indexed as pork belly; instead it appears as part of the "degustation de porcelet, rutabaga mostardo, wilted mustard greens, and potato "mille feuille," p. 156 in my edition.

It is rather strange how pork belly is not even indexed in the book. The recipe you are citing calls for baby belly, but the cooking method for the belly is the same as the regular pork belly recipe found on page 148 "glazed breast of pork with swiss chard, white wine poached granny smith apples, and green mustard vinaigrette."

[rotuts]

"baby" in the name makes everything appear more chii chii

dont even know how one spells Chii chii

[_john]

Look what I picked up at the flea market today:

It is essentially a huge vacuum thermos. It is hard to tell but it about a meter tall made of glass. I am testing it in my shower right now. It seems to have lost about 0.7°C in one hour. It was used to sell ice cream off the the back of bicycles. Judging by the temperature loss I assume that the vacuum is still intact. I wonder if there will any problems with it being vertically large. I think most of the things I want to sous vide will fit in the opening.

[ScottyBoy]

Need some advice of a leg of Venison. A friend hooked me up with some fresh venison from a hunt, I've got a leg boned out. I'll be cooking her dinner on Thursday. She's really interested in sous vide, she's never tried it before. Just because of the low fat content and the make-up of the muscle, any recommendations for time/temps? Thanks in advance!

[DouglasBaldwin]

Need some advice of a leg of Venison. A friend hooked me up with some fresh venison from a hunt, I've got a leg boned out. I'll be cooking her dinner on Thursday. She's really interested in sous vide, she's never tried it before. Just because of the low fat content and the make-up of the muscle, any recommendations for time/temps? Thanks in advance!

Hi Scotty,

I have times and temperatures for venison in my cookbook. For leg, I recommend 1–2 days (24–48 hrs) at either 130˚F (55˚C) for medium-rare or 140˚F (60˚C) for medium. Personally, I'd start cooking it now at 130˚F (55˚C) and check how it feels about every 12 hours, then rapidly chill it when it feels right, and reheat it on Thursday. (The age and sex of the deer can make a huge difference and it's unlikely that you know either.) To check to see if it feels right, I just remove it from the water bath and gently squeeze it with my hand; I'd look for the same elastic feel you get from a chuck roast cooked for 24 hours at 130˚F (55˚C) — I want the meat to give when I squeeze it but still return to its original shape.

[ScottyBoy]

You rule once again, thanks!

[rotuts]

Boneless 'Country Style Pork Ribs' SV +?

at one of my local markets the above from time to time comes on sale. Ive used these in the past for two recipes:

put them 'plain' on a rack over a pan of shallow water ( stops the dripping from burning ) and in the oven at 425 for about 45 min.

carefully remove, drain away the fat/drippings and place the nicely browned 'ribs' in another baking dish and slather with 'BBQ Sauce' your favorite or one purchased that you 'Goose-Up'

return to a much slower oven 250 or so for as long as an hour. covered. the BBQ sauce gets carmelized, most but not all of the fat is gone and you have delicious "fall of the Non-bone" ribs.

the other was a fast grill and thin slicing

now to the question:

why not remove some of the fat, the big globs, put a rub on them and then seal in a SV bag 2 - 3 /bag.

SV at 130.1 for say 48 hours or longer. chill save.

to eat: over a very hot grill char-ish and then add BBQ sauce on the side?

they would be 1) tender 2) BBQ- ish 3) keep- able for a rainy day

Your Thoughts Much appreciated!

[Paul Kierstead]

I've no idea what "country style" means in those parts, but I've SV'd both baby back and side ribs, plus 'riblets' (which are kind of off-cuts from ribs). My temps were a lot higher, more like 155 or so. I've used rubs (and not), I've brined (and not), i've tried a little liquid smoke in the bag with a little brine (nice). I've torched and grilled afterwords. All worked very well, and very very tasty. Next I'm going to try a smoke gun.... then, I want to set up a proper cold smoker and try that too.

[rotuts]

Im only using 130.1 as an idea " rare " 'ribs' ie tender but still rare. Ill ask the store where these come from. they have really great flavor when cooked as I described in the oven. that being said they are hardly 'rare' cooked that way.

I was just wondering what 'rare' tender 'ribs' were like

I SV pork loin cut up into 6" pieces about 6 x 4 pieces with rub to 131 and then slice them very thin after they chill for sandwiches and they are to die for cant buy this type of meat anywhere.

i was just wondering what these 'ribs' would taste like that way

more info on the cut tomorrow !!

many thanks!

[PedroG]

New sous vide thickness ruler with new tables from Douglas Baldwin's Practical Guide

You may have noticed that on 18 June 2011 Douglas has published a new version 0.4i of his Practical Guide: he updated the food safety chapter and most of the heating, cooling, and pasteurization tables. Heating times are now defined from 5°C/41°F to 0.5°C/1°F less than the water bath’s temperature, valid for target temperatures from 45°C/110°F to 80°C/175°F, and heating times for different shapes are included. Beef pasteurization times now take E.coli into account besides Salmonella and Listeria.

So I adapted the thickness ruler to the new tables. Suggestions for improvement are welcome, as I plan to make a new thickness ruler as soon as Douglas will publish a heating time table for frozen fish.

Thickness ruler_v4_0.4i_2.pdf

[jmolinari]

Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps That would be awesome!

[rotuts]

Kudos for PG !

[PedroG]

Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps That would be awesome!

LOL! Seriously, there is no need for different final meat temperatures. Why? The S-shaped form of the heating curve is always the same. In the same time that starting from 5°C in a 55°C water bath will arrive at 54.5°C, it will arrive at 44.6°C in a 45.0°C bath or at 64.4°C in a 65.0°C bath, an irrelevant difference.

Kudos for PG !

Thanks for the flowers which I pass on to Douglas Baldwin for his new tables!

[mmille24]

Didn't like how the 75 degree egg for 15 minutes came out. Egg white was far too runny for my liking.

Going to try the other method (ie 65 degrees for 40 minutes and finish off in boiling water for 2.5 minutes).

[e_monster]

Didn't like how the 75 degree egg for 15 minutes came out. Egg white was far too runny for my liking.

Going to try the other method (ie 65 degrees for 40 minutes and finish off in boiling water for 2.5 minutes).

Let us know how it goes. It is possible that you needed another minute or two at 75C or you might need to raise the temperature slightly. Have you checked the calibration of your cooking device? Eggs are the thing that I cook that are most sensitive to issues of calibration.

[Smokalicious]

I must admit that I still have not tried Douglas' latest method at 75C, perhaps because I'm still trying for nirvana with the Khymos 6xC technique. I made eggs today SV at 63C for 70 minutes, to a cool bath for 15 minutes, boiled for 3 minutes, and again to a cool bath for a few minutes before serving. Best results yet.

To Peter's assertion of rubbery whites using this method: yes, there is a very thin layer of white that can be said is rubbery, but this adheres to the shell and mostly unnoticeable unless you make a real effort to scrape it out.