Home Made Ice Cream (2013– )

JoNorvelleWalker · May 29, 2015

Eighty one and a half hours and still no defects. The only downside is there is but one small serving left -- though I still have half a batch of mix in the refrigerator yet to spin. So frustrating, rolling the bolus about on my tongue searching for any fault and finding none.

I suspect the lack of iciness is due to the use of trehalose. None of my ice cream attempts using trehalose, for better or for worse, have ended up icy.

paulraphael · May 29, 2015

I've never seen trehalose used in ice cream before. Does trehalose have water binding properties that you're aware of? Does it come in syrup form?

Usually alternate sugars are used for their increased freezing point suppression. You can predict this quality with the molecular weight of the sugar; the lower the number more it depresses freezing point. Trehalose is a disaccharide like sucrose, and has a molecular weight that's very similar. So you wouldn't predict any freezing point effect.

The only sugar I know that has a significant effect on iciness and texture is trimoline. It has pretty strong water binding properties (and a low molecular weight, so it's useful generally). It's pretty typical to use this for 10-20% of the total sugar weight. It's a little bit sweeter than sucrose by weight, so between sucrose, dextrose, and trimoline, you can fine tune the sweetness and the freezing point independently.

For ice crystal control I use a blend of hydrocolloids. I don't get a noticeable increase in iciness over the course of two weeks. But ... I'm working on getting the ice cream smoother on day one. The holy grail in texture is (sad to say) industrial ice cream, and mine isn't that smooth. My KA ice cream maker can freeze a batch in around 15 minutes, which is pretty quick ... I won't be able to afford anything that goes faster. So that's a small disadvantage over, say, a high end Carpiggiani machine that works in 5 or 6 minutes. But the other industrial advantages are a blast freezer (-40 or lower, to flash harden the ice cream), and homogenization of the mix (Jo, you are the victor here!)

I'm working on how to get the best flavor textural results possible without high end equipment. Presumably if Santa brings me a Carpigiani machine or a homogenizer, things will only get better, but I'm enjoying the challenge of seeing how far things can be pushed in their absence. It's amazing how there is to learn at every turn.

paulraphael · May 29, 2015

Interestingly, this exact question with trehalose has been addressed (it's the only trehalose / ice cream article I've seen so far):

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2621.2006.01484.x/full

It suggests that this sugar is not what's responsible for the lack of iciness.

Baselerd · May 29, 2015

I recently made one of the more unusual ice cream recipes from Elements of Dessert - baguette ice cream. The recipe had you toast slices of baguette, then blend the baguette with whole milk. The rest of the recipe followed standard ice cream preparation techniques, using the baguette milk as the base. A few added ingredients (active dry yeast, malt syrup) reinforced the bread flavor.

However, after blending the baguette-milk base was a thick paste (no way I could churn the mixture in my machine). So I ended up throwing half of it away and adding more milk. Then I added 18% egg yolks (to baguette milk), 20% sugars (half glucose powder, half sugar), and about .5% stabilizer (guar gum/iota carageenan). Turned out well in the end, it tasted like a freshly toasted baguette - perhaps the book instructions would work well with a Pacojet, not sure.

It was served with dehydrated milk foam, caramelized white chocolate, cajeta, and black lava salt.

paulraphael · May 30, 2015

That's cool ... definitely an odd one. I bet the bread starch makes significant stabilizing and solids contributions. You might be able to cut down on gums and egg and any added dry milk.

It must be begging for some salted butter.

Tri2Cook · May 30, 2015

That's cool ... definitely an odd one. I bet the bread starch makes significant stabilizing and solids contributions. You might be able to cut down on gums and egg and any added dry milk.

It must be begging for some salted butter.

Several years ago, Ideas in Food did a Ritz cracker ice cream. No stabilizers, gums, egg or special sugars/sweeteners involved. The entire ingredient list was Ritz crackers, half & half, sugar and sour cream. It was a thick pudding-like consistency prior to churning and I didn't hold out a lot of hope for it. Turns out it was really tasty with a really nice texture that stayed nice for a surprisingly long time. So you may be on to something regarding starches in the mix.

JoNorvelleWalker · May 30, 2015

I was aware of the Whelan, et al article, and certainly I respect Douglas Goff. They are studying iciness following heat shock which may or may not be the same thing as initial iciness right after ice cream is made.

Sadly my timer goes up to only 100 hours, and tonight's dessert is angel food.

Trehalose is very useful for modifying freezing point suppression because one can add more sugar without making the resulting ice cream too sweet.

paulraphael · May 30, 2015

Trehalose is very useful for modifying freezing point suppression because one can add more sugar without making the resulting ice cream too sweet.

Yes, you can, although with the drawback that you're actually making a very high-sugar ice cream. Dextrose is both less sweet than table sugar, and has nearly double the freezing point suppression. So your final blend that gives the hardness and the sweetness you like will be a much lower sugar ice cream.

It's possible that the formula with trehalose, just by adding a lot of extra nonfat solids, is improving the texture. But I'd bet that milk solids would accomplish this more effectively. The proteins have emulsifying capacity, and the lactose has exceptional water binding capacity.

JoNorvelleWalker · May 31, 2015

With regard to initial iciness, the Whelan, et al article, Figure 1., shows trehalose solutions have a higher nucleation rate than sucrose solutions, "...especially within the first 20 min of the experiment." Dwell times with my Cuisinart ICE-100 are typically between 15 and 20 minutes. I try very hard to keep it closer to 15.

Whether this really has anything to do with the resulting iciness (or lack thereof) in my ice cream I cannot say for sure. I'd be the first to admit their error bars are rather large.

Iciness is the worst (but not the only) ice cream textural defect I can imagine, and as one of my coworkers said tonight: "Ice cream is all about texture."

I have nothing against dextrose (that is, glucose). You may see several times in this thread I have suggested its use. However I have never tried using dextrose myself. Corbett and Tracy reported that for high butterfat ice cream tasters preferred a mix of sucrose and dextrose, while for low butterfat ice cream tasters preferred all sucrose [post #117].

paulraphael · May 31, 2015

Thanks for the link on dextrose. The interesting tidbit in there is that perceived sweetness is different in ice cream than in other contexts (no reason given). But their tests showed that the usual figure of dextrose being 0.7 times as sweet as sucrose isn't correct; in ice cream it's more like 0.83%. Meaning, for equivalent sweetness, you need 1.2 times as much dextrose. Less the most of us assumed.

The data on people's preferences don't strike me as very useful. These are in situations where all else is kept equal, so people were judging based on sweetness and rate of melting and body ... all qualities that can be controlled by other means.

Here are the conclusions with some of my annotations:

The following conclusions apply to ice creams sweetened with
sucrose as compared with those in which one-fourth of the sucrose is
replaced with dextrose.

1. Consumer tests show that hydrous dextrose has a sweetening
value which is 83 percent as effective as sucrose in ice creams, and
anhydrous dextrose has a value equal to sucrose.

[interesting!]

2. The use of dextrose in ice cream does not affect the time to
freeze and whip the mix.

3. When 25 percent of the sucrose is replaced with dextrose the
drawing temperature will be approximately one degree lower.

4. Dextrose imparts as desirable flavor and body to batch-
frozen ice cream as does sucrose. When dextrose ice cream is frozen
on the Vogt continuous freezer, the stabilizer content must be reduced
in order to avoid a sticky body.

[so, no significant flavor difference.
Possible differences in body can be compensated for by reducing stabilizing ingredients]

5. Dextrose ice cream melts slightly faster at room temperature,
which possibly accounts for the greater refreshing qualities of high-
fat ice creams having one- fourth of the sucrose replaced with dextrose.

[This is the expected result of the lower freezing point and increased scoopability]

6. Dipping the dextrose ice cream at lower temperatures than the
sucrose ice cream helps to minimize dipping losses.

7. Dextrose imparts slightly more color to the mix, slightly
lowers the pH, and decreases mix viscosity.

paulraphael · June 3, 2015

Anyone in the NYC area want to participate in a taste test?

I've prepared 5 identical batches which will be cooked differently:

72C
60 minutes

75C
30 minutes

60 minutes

80C
15 minutes

30 minutes

No flavorings. Made with organic milk from pasture-raised cows.

Right now I'm testing for flavor only; I can fine-tune texture with other variables. I only have facilities to spin one batch of ice cream in a 24 hour period, so this will be a tasting of unspun mix.

If anyone wants to come over in the next couple of days to offer an opinion, I'll sweeten the deal with cocktails.

Perrin · June 3, 2015

Tragedy!

My 25 lb bag of atomized glucose has turned solid as a rock. It's like what happens to brown sugar when it dries up. Does anyone have experience with this stuff and know if I can salvage it? I tried putting a little moisture in a jar with some, like I would with brown sugar, and was rewarded with a big hunk of glue.

P.S. paulraphael, I don't think I can make it this time, but I do live in NYC. I've been trying to get to one of the Laiskonis ice cream classes over at ICE.

JoNorvelleWalker · June 5, 2015

Sadly, a failed experiment with coconut gelato:

I attempted a coconut variation of MC@H gelato (pp 370-371). I love the peanut butter variation, and the peanut is easy to make. I've always wanted to try pistachio but pistachio paste is dear to come by. I had some trepidation about coconut but I figured it was worth a shot. For the liquid I used pure coconut milk. For the nut butter I used pure coconut butter. For the oil (what else?) I used the oil on top of the coconut butter. I followed the MC@H recipe scaling exactly. Not a milligram of trehalose. (However I left out the called for added salt as I find coconut naturally on the salty side.)

All was well after homogenization till it came time for the ice bath. Coconut being coconut the mixture set into a solid. It is difficult to successfully freeze a solid in any known batch ice cream freezer. Though I suspect this recipe would work quite well with a pacojet. I don't have a pacojet.

On the positive side the result is delicious and the texture is perfectly smooth as it melts on the tongue. It's just not ice cream.

paulraphael · June 5, 2015

Tragedy!

My 25 lb bag of atomized glucose has turned solid as a rock. It's like what happens to brown sugar when it dries up. Does anyone have experience with this stuff and know if I can salvage it? I tried putting a little moisture in a jar with some, like I would with brown sugar, and was rewarded with a big hunk of glue.

P.S. paulraphael, I don't think I can make it this time, but I do live in NYC. I've been trying to get to one of the Laiskonis ice cream classes over at ICE.

Sorry to hear. No experience with that. I suspect the problem is the opposite of drying out—it's taken on moisture and glued itself together. Atomized glucose is spray-dried glucose syrup, and so I'd expect it to readily take on humidity from the air. Or from from whatever additional water you add.

Not sure what you could do besides physically grind it up, and maybe dry it in a warm oven. Or else convert it back into syrup and use it that way.

Let us know if you take one of Laiskonis's classes at ICE. He's a great teacher.

paulraphael · June 5, 2015

Sadly, a failed experiment with coconut gelato:

I attempted a coconut variation of MC@H gelato (pp 370-371). I love the peanut butter variation, and the peanut is easy to make. I've always wanted to try pistachio but pistachio paste is dear to come by. I had some trepidation about coconut but I figured it was worth a shot. For the liquid I used pure coconut milk. For the nut butter I used pure coconut butter. For the oil (what else?) I used the oil on top of the coconut butter. I followed the MC@H recipe scaling exactly. Not a milligram of trehalose. (However I left out the called for added salt as I find coconut naturally on the salty side.)

All was well after homogenization till it came time for the ice bath. Coconut being coconut the mixture set into a solid. It is difficult to successfully freeze a solid in any known batch ice cream freezer. Though I suspect this recipe would work quite well with a pacojet. I don't have a pacojet.

On the positive side the result is delicious and the texture is perfectly smooth as it melts on the tongue. It's just not ice cream.

Well, it sounds tasty. I suspect the issue is the coconut oil. It's a really tricky fat to have in a frozen dessert, just like cocoa butter. It's 100% solid at any ice cream temperature, unlike milk fat, which is in so many different phases that between 5°C and -10°C you're just increasing the proportion of solid fat.

I use coconut oil to make homemade magic shell.

Would be interesting indeed to try that in a paco jet.

paulraphael · June 5, 2015

Anyone in the NYC area want to participate in a taste test?

I've prepared 5 identical batches which will be cooked differently:

72C
60 minutes

75C
30 minutes
60 minutes

80C
15 minutes
30 minutes

No flavorings. Made with organic milk from pasture-raised cows.

Right now I'm testing for flavor only; I can fine-tune texture with other variables. I only have facilities to spin one batch of ice cream in a 24 hour period, so this will be a tasting of unspun mix.

If anyone wants to come over in the next couple of days to offer an opinion, I'll sweeten the deal with cocktails.

Ok, I just did a taste test. I figured out a way to blind test myself. Did two rounds of triangle testing, each with two samples doubled (so I tasted 7 samples in each round and wrote down my impressions).

First impression: blind taste tests mess with you. In round 1, sample E tasted "overwhelmingly sweet. couldn't taste other flavors." Sample F tasted "very fresh dairy flavors. illusion of vanilla." E and F turned out to be from the same batch. So take my impressions with a grain of rock salt.

Overall, comparing my notes from the two rounds, the winner was 75°C at 30 minutes. It had the most natural dairy flavor. Cooking a full batch sous-vide, I'd probably increase to 40 minutes, since it takes a while for the mix to come up to temperature.

Coincidentally, this is the temperature Jeni Britton uses, and she uses her pasteurization to denature the milk proteins for emulsification. She cooks for 2 hours, but I believe her goal is a more cooked flavor.

This test revealed very minor differences. I'm going to enlist my girlfriend for another round of this. Her palate might be a bit better than mine.

Details: this was a 15% milkfat mix, 2 yolks per quart, 0.2% stabilizer. 10% nonfat milk solids, 25% total nonfat solids. Milk and cream were from pasture-fed cows, sold by the 'natural by nature' coop.

Baselerd · June 5, 2015

Sadly, a failed experiment with coconut gelato:

I attempted a coconut variation of MC@H gelato (pp 370-371). I love the peanut butter variation, and the peanut is easy to make. I've always wanted to try pistachio but pistachio paste is dear to come by. I had some trepidation about coconut but I figured it was worth a shot. For the liquid I used pure coconut milk. For the nut butter I used pure coconut butter. For the oil (what else?) I used the oil on top of the coconut butter. I followed the MC@H recipe scaling exactly. Not a milligram of trehalose. (However I left out the called for added salt as I find coconut naturally on the salty side.)

All was well after homogenization till it came time for the ice bath. Coconut being coconut the mixture set into a solid. It is difficult to successfully freeze a solid in any known batch ice cream freezer. Though I suspect this recipe would work quite well with a pacojet. I don't have a pacojet.

On the positive side the result is delicious and the texture is perfectly smooth as it melts on the tongue. It's just not ice cream.

I've had good luck using Cream of Coconut (Coco Real brand, Gourmet) in coconut sorbets and gelatos (Not necessarily with the MC recipe).

mgaretz · June 6, 2015

I just made one of the best batches of non-dairy "ice cream" yet: It's chocolate peanut butter! I made it with some powdered peanut butter that showed up at my local Costco and I knew I had to try it.

The recipe was:

200gr Precision Foods Vanilla soft-serve mix

16 oz Silk brand Almond/Coconut Milk blend, unsweetened

2 tbs cocoa powder

4 tbs powdered peanut butter

1 tsp instant expresso powder

I mixed all of the ingredients in my blender and churned in the Kitchenaid Ice Cream bowl attachment.

paulraphael · June 6, 2015

This test revealed very minor differences. I'm going to enlist my girlfriend for another round of this. Her palate might be a bit better than mine.

Well, basically the same results from her. After the fourth sample she said, "this is all starting to taste alike." Interestingly she and I both tasted vanilla in several of the samples. It wouldn't make sense that this was power of suggestion, since I made the stuff and knew for sure there was no vanilla in it. Maybe this is just an automatic leap our brains make when we taste custard?

Perrin · June 18, 2015

mgaretz, I'm very interested in your approach using the soft-serve mix with your own flavorings. I just ordered some from eBay to play around with. Do you have any tips on what works best?

mgaretz · June 18, 2015

mgaretz, I'm very interested in your approach using the soft-serve mix with your own flavorings. I just ordered some from eBay to play around with. Do you have any tips on what works best?

What I have found works best is the basic ratio of 200gr mix to 16 oz of liquid. Currently I'm favoring the Silk brand almond/coconut blend, unsweetened and unflavored. Then add in your flavorings. Some of the flavorings I use are liquid, and these generally have some kind of glycol/glycerin component and that keeps the finished ice cream scoopable. When I'm just using powdered flavors, like above, I have added in a tbs of vegetable glycerin. So far, in limited testing, that has worked.

I put the liquid in the blender jar, then add the powders and mix on stir or low until blended well. Then I just pour into the ice cream maker. I don't bother to rechill or cure the mix.

Edited June 18, 2015 by mgaretz (log)

Perrin · June 18, 2015

The glycerin is for lowering the freezing point? Have you tried using dairy with it, or just non-dairy liquids?

JoNorvelleWalker · June 25, 2015

Tragedy!

My 25 lb bag of atomized glucose has turned solid as a rock. It's like what happens to brown sugar when it dries up. Does anyone have experience with this stuff and know if I can salvage it? I tried putting a little moisture in a jar with some, like I would with brown sugar, and was rewarded with a big hunk of glue.

P.S. paulraphael, I don't think I can make it this time, but I do live in NYC. I've been trying to get to one of the Laiskonis ice cream classes over at ICE.

Speaking as someone who has never been able to store brown sugar, trehalose is non hygroscopic.

mgaretz · June 25, 2015

The glycerin is for lowering the freezing point? Have you tried using dairy with it, or just non-dairy liquids?

Yes the glycerin is for lowering the freezing point. Haven't tried dairy as I am lactose intolerant.

JoNorvelleWalker · June 26, 2015

I'm in the midst of my first experiment using the Precise Heat Mixing Bowl connected to a mixer. I scaled down my recipe to:

500 ml heavy cream
200 ml whole milk
4 large egg yolks
60 g sucrose
15 g trehalose
Kosher salt pinch

In a pot on the stove I mixed the yolks with sugars and salt, then heated with the cream and milk till the mixture was 161 deg F. I poured the warm mix into the PHMB preheated to 200 deg F and stirred on slowest speed of the KSM8990 using the whisk attachment. I've been spot checking the temperature about every ten minutes. Initially after just a couple minutes the reading was 159 deg F. Since then the temperature at my readings has held to 161 deg F, plus or minus one degree.

The trick will be judging when the two thirds reduction is complete. I may try upping the mixing speed a notch. Which I did. My next temperature reading was still 161 deg F.

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