Homemade chicken stock is too expensive to make.

[CaliPoutine]

Hey all-

Better than bouillon costs $5 for a jar that makes almost 10 quarts.

I don't quite follow you. You want to use organic chicken, O.K., fair enough.

But-tum----eh....uh, well, what does the ingredient label on the "better than bouillone" say? "made with organic chicken"? or does it say: "Yeast extracts, modified starches and carmelized sugar for colouring"???

I actually like the organic Better than boullion in a pinch. Say, I just need a cup of stock or so, its a good products with real chicken as an ingredient.

[ojisan]

FYI - Costco sells the organic/lower sodium version of Better Than Boullion, both chicken and vegetable. The chicken has no unusual ingredients except maltodextrin.

[mkayahara]

If you have a good source for organic eggs, ask them what they do with their spent hens. Where I am, they're still more expensive than grocery-store roasters, but cheaper than organic free-range roasters.

[mskerr]

Nice! I haven't seen the organic version yet, even at health stores. I will have to track some down. Even when I do start making my own stock, it's always nice to have a back- up in a pinch.

Plus, no one that I cook for is fussy at all. My partner and friends (and, lots of time, I) are all quite happy to have fish sticks and fried eggs for dinner. But over the long- term, I would like to cook as well as I can.

Anyone have tips on finding local chickens from farmers? And do they work out any cheaper, or is it all about better quality? I think Craigslist would probably work.

[Broken English]

I'm not sure exactly what this thread is about. Does it not make sense to buy a whole organic chicken, break it down and make stock from the carcass?

Unless you're ripping through it, that much stock should be more than enough for a week, and you can always boost it a little with powder if you're running short (I find that the MSG in the powder actually makes regular chicken stock taste better).

[Katie Meadow]

When it comes to stock I try to strike a balance. I buy a cheaper not organic chicken and/or chicken parts and feet. I cook the living daylights out of it (at a low simmer, but several hours) and don't expect that the chicken will be very appealing or even nutritious after that time. Sometimes my husband will pull of a few chunks of breast or thigh meat after the first hour, and that works for chicken salad or whatever. That way we minimize the waste a bit.

I can't justify buying free range or organic chicken for stock. If I am making a soup that wants shredded or pieced chicken I will typically buy Kosher chicken or sometimes organic chicken and poach it delicately until just done, then take it off the bone and add it at the last minute. That way it is tender and moist (even the breast!) and I feel like I am eating relatively healthy. If you are getting supplies at Trader Joe's, they sell Empire Kosher chicken, and it's pretty tasty.

The difference in taste for me between any canned or boxed broth and homemade is pretty huge, and ultimately, given that I can produce five or six quarts of strong stock at a time, I can turn that into several generous batches of different types of soup, so I think I'm getting my money's worth. Although I don't analyse it too closely.

[mskerr]

I'm not sure exactly what this thread is about. Does it not make sense to buy a whole organic chicken, break it down and make stock from the carcass?

Yep, it does. Some of the recipes I've read call for a whole chicken, which is completely discarded after making the stock (one from Edna Lewis, for example) so I think I had the wrong impression.

Also, I really do use heaps and heaps of stock. I'm a soup junkie.

[mskerr]

I can't justify buying free range or organic chicken for stock. If I am making a soup that wants shredded or pieced chicken I will typically buy Kosher chicken or sometimes organic chicken...

I'd be perfectly happy to buy a kosher chicken. But where I live, it's a $5 Foster's chicken or a $19 Coastal Range Organic chicken.

Edited bc I accidentally posted while still typing.

Edited August 29, 2012 by mskerr (log)

[dcarch]

TJ's organic free range chickens do not taste any better than store chicken.

In a Chinese store, you can find old (as in old age) free range chickens with heads and feet. They are very flavorful for making stock.

dcarch

[mskerr]

I'm not sure exactly what this thread is about. Does it not make sense to buy a whole organic chicken, break it down and make stock from the carcass?

Also - perhaps I should mention that I rarely cook chicken. I'm way more into lamb and beef. Usually when I need chicken stock it's for a meatless saffron risotto, or lamb soup, or a bean soup, or Spanish rice, etc. I don't have chicken scraps lying around, so when I need chicken stock, I have a choice between going out and buying chicken from the supermarket to make my own, or using store-bought bouillon. From everyone's responses here, it sounds like one easy solution for me is: eat more chicken!

TJ's organic free range chickens do not taste any better than store chicken.

In a Chinese store, you can find old (as in old age) free range chickens with heads and feet. They are very flavorful for making stock.

dcarch

I keep meaning to hit up the Chinese market (1 hour away). I'm sure there'll be all sorts of goodies. Unfortunately, since our truck doesn't have A/C I'll be waiting until this months-long 100+ weather breaks.

I haven't done a side- by- side taste test of my own yet of free-range/kosher/organic chickens vs. conventional. I just read taste tests on Cooks Ilustrated, Serious Eats etc. My hesitance to buy the Foster's chicken is mostly bc I read way too much about the meat industry in my old veg days.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

On another note - I read in Michael Symon's cookbook that soup can create its own stock as it cooks. He said something like 'What's in stock? Meat, bones, vegetables... What's in soup? Meat, bones, vegetables...'. Any ideas on how to use this approach?

This is exactly what I do when I'm too busy to make stock the "proper" way - I should mention that we're also soup-happy in my family. I buy whole chickens from a local large-scale organic free-ranger and save my carcasses and bones in the freezer for soup. On days when it's just not feasable to make stock and then make soup from that, what I do is put on the bones and carcasses with water to boil down, then strain and pick off the meat, skim any excessive fat, and cook the veggies in that broth. It's basically unreduced stock at that point, but what I'll generally do is make quite a bit of it and then strain out about half the liquid when the veg is tender, and reserve that liquid (reduced or not - I usually do reduce simply because it saves space) for subsequent soups. Near the very end of the process I'll add the meat I picked off the bones back into the soup broth (well after I've taken off the soupstock). It's not quite the same creature as a "proper" stock, but it's dang tasty and makes a lovely risotto, and even if I make several litres it rarely lasts the week.

When I do have time and energy to make stock the right way, I can buy backs and a cut called "aguado" (literally "stock pieces" - a mixture of necks, backs, feet, and wingtips) from the chicken parts place where I buy the whole chickens. I'm surprised that the place you're buying chicken doesn't have these cuts! Then again, I live in a soup culture and there'd be a riot if the places that sell chicken stopped providing the aguado.

[rancho_gordo]

I poach a chicken a week. I cut it into pieces and gently poach with onions and garlic. I take the breast pieces out first and then leave the rest as long as I feel like it.

I strain the chicken and chill the broth.

The chicken gets used throughout the week, sometimes even fried in chicken fat.

If I'm ambitious, I skin it and place the skins on a tray and render them in a very low oven for hours. The results are chicken fat and super crispy skins that hopefully make it into a salad.

If I haven't made soup, I poach next week's chicken in the the previous week's stock.

There's very little waste and lots of good food for the price of a chicken!

[Broken English]

I'm not sure exactly what this thread is about. Does it not make sense to buy a whole organic chicken, break it down and make stock from the carcass?

Also - perhaps I should mention that I rarely cook chicken. I'm way more into lamb and beef. Usually when I need chicken stock it's for a meatless saffron risotto, or lamb soup, or a bean soup, or Spanish rice, etc. I don't have chicken scraps lying around, so when I need chicken stock, I have a choice between going out and buying chicken from the supermarket to make my own, or using store-bought bouillon. From everyone's responses here, it sounds like one easy solution for me is: eat more chicken!

I completely get that. To me, the only good chicken is a wing or thigh, served fried and juicy. The whole chicken holds little interest.

Luckily, you can get chicken carcasses/necks from most butchers. Or, when I was at WD-50, the chicken stock was made exclusively from wings, which tasted amazing.

I'd forget about organic when you're buying bones. Let me tell you, there will be no difference in the taste of your stock, but it will cost you three times the price to make your stock.

If I'm honest, I have a hard time telling you the actual difference between a soup made from home made stock and one made from instant powder (though that may be because I have been making more puree style soups and use stock in conjunction with dairy, and also because I love the taste and mouthfeel that the MSG in the stock powder provides).

[harrysnapperorgans]

I’m also on a serious budget - and 26. I have a wife and two kids to feed as well.

I buy a free range chicken every week, break it down and roast the legs, wings and carcass for our first chicken dinner.

After we’ve eaten that, I use the roasted carcass and any bones from the legs & wing that didn’t get tossed to make stock.

The stock either gets used fresh or I freeze it, and it will usually turn into a risotto or soup. That's the second chicken dinner.

The 3rd dinner is the breasts - I like ‘em stuffed, or in a curry, or with pasta.

Buying a more expensive (and tastier) free range chicken makes more sense if you can get three meals out of it.

Luckily here in NZ all lamb and beef is free range, so apart from a bit of bacon sometimes, I’m not eating factory farmed meat anymore.

[mskerr]

Harrysnapperorgans - Good thinking.

Yes, NZ is spoiled for good meat! And game, and seafood, and dairy... lucky buggers.

[ScoopKW]

Whether buying cheap chickens, organic chickens, kosher chickens, or mutant chicken-like creatures from the planet Krypton, it's almost always more economical to buy the whole chicken. Butcher the birds, wrap and freeze unneeded sections. And freeze the bones. Once a good supply of bones has been accumulated, make stock.

[Crouton]

I do freeze bones for use when I have enough, but in the meantime, just do what Cook's Illustrated recommends - use Swanson's Low Sodium Chicken broth. Sure it tastes like cardboard if you taste it fresh - BUT - once it cooks down with other meats then it really does dramatically improve the flavor of a dish. If you need more gelatin, add gelatin once reduced. Constantly making chicken stock at home isn't worth the effort IMO when you can have satisfactory results with broth.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Crouton (log)

[nickrey]

I use a pressure cooker to make my stock and by the time it is made, very little to no flavour remains in the meat.

Not having much freezer space, I also pressure can my stock and keep the filled Mason jars in my pantry ready for use. I use a gravy pourer with the spout coming from the bottom to separate the fat from the stock.

The difference from store bought or (shudder) powdered is huge.

Most of the effort in stock making involves waiting for it to finish cooking. In my opinion, it is totally worth doing.

[LindaK]

How does stock made from a whole chicken compare to stock made from a variety of bones and cuts compare in your experiences? Over the last few months, I've come to really appreciate bones after realizing how much better my lamb soup is now that I make it with meaty bones instead of ground lamb. So much more body and flavor! Plus, there is something so satisfying about eating meat off a bone.

Using a whole chicken seems like a waste of expensive meat. A good stock will extract all the flavor from the meat, nothing you can use afterwards. All the flavor is in the stock. As Nickrey notes, a pressure cooker does this very well.

The best chicken stock I make is from the Modernist Cuisine recipe, which uses wings and ground chicken. It can be expensive, if you go buy a pound of ground chicken at the market, or it can be affordable if you save meat scraps.

[Mjx]

Using a whole chicken seems like a waste of expensive meat. A good stock will extract all the flavor from the meat, nothing you can use afterwards. All the flavor is in the stock. . . .

With a little planning, you can use the meat, even though a lot of its flavour is gone: I use it in filled pasta and empanadas, where the seasoning and other ingredients bring their own flavours, so the meat functions as a filler/flavour vehicle (it's also still valuable as protein).

[patrickamory]

Old chickens and roosters: Very interested in using these (I think there's another thread about them). Those of you who get them in Chinatown - how do you identify which are the old ones, "intended for the stockpot" as old cookbooks always say?

MSG: Yea or nay? I've never used it, but I add "umami-ish" ingredients all the time to various dishes, so I wonder if I should go full white powder.

[mskerr]

Old chickens and roosters: Very interested in using these (I think there's another thread about them). Those of you who get them in Chinatown - how do you identify which are the old ones, "intended for the stockpot" as old cookbooks always say?

MSG: Yea or nay? I've never used it, but I add "umami-ish" ingredients all the time to various dishes, so I wonder if I should go full white powder.

Yes, please, send me tips on how to negotiate the Chinese market for good deals! I am gonna hit up the one nearby (1 hr) soon- my first time at a full-on Chinese market.

And I've been wondering about MSG & umami quite a bit lately - was actually gonna start a new thread about how to boost umami aside from just adding msg or more salt, but then I've been reading more about msg being benign, and I've started to think maybe it's a good, simple solution.

[KennethT]

When you go to the market in chinatown (at least in NYC) they have different labels. In NYC (Manhattan), I think it's Hong Li meat market on Mott between Hester and Grand that I had good results in.... One chicken that's GREAT for stock is the silky - you can't miss it - it's got black skin and black meat. They're pretty scrawny, but the skin and meat are very tough and make great broths. I put in the pressure cooker for about an hour and a half to completely break it down. They also have different sections in the refrigerator with different kinds of chicken. I forget how they're labeled, but one of them has a larger comb than the rest - those are good stewing chickens as well. If all fails, try to get there when they're not jam-packed, and ask someone - when they're not too busy, I find they can be pretty helpful.

[liuzhou]

Old layers are often labelled 老母雞 in Chinese. It literally means 'old mother chicken'.

[patrickamory]

Great info Kenneth and liuzhou. I've seen that black chicken. I've also had good luck showing characters to sales clerks on my phone. Will try both if needed. Thanks!!!