Sweet Maria's: Roasting successes and failures

[Steve Irby]

Oil on the surface of the bean is primarily a function of degree of roast. That's why city roast is not oily and french roast is. Here's a good link - check rasquals response.

[Steve Irby]

Whoops forgot the link: http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/13866/what-can-you-surmise-about-coffee-beans-that-have-oil-on-them-at-the-time-of-pur

[abooja]

I just brewed a cup of my latest roast, and it tastes virtually identical to the last, despite having been roasted twice as long. It has the color and astringency of black tea. It has been about 24 hours since it was roasted. As someone in Steve's link suggests, did it need to age a bit longer because it is a lighter roast? Or, from what you can tell, was it just not roasted long enough? I have enough left for one more cup. I may just run out and buy a heat gun today so that I can start roasting larger batches. I'd like to be able to test small portions of a batch over the course of a week, because three ounces only lasts so long.

[Chris Hennes]

Oil on the surface of the bean is primarily a function of degree of roast. That's why city roast is not oily and french roast is. Here's a good link - check rasquals response.

I really don't think you can say that it is "primarily" a function of roast: it is a function of roast and time. For example, I have a bag of emergency backup beans in the back of my cupboard that I just checked: they were roasted to City+, and were oil-free at the time and for at least a week afterwards. Now, three months later? Coated in oil. And this is just a City+ roast! Once roasted, beans will begin to express oil: the higher the roast, the faster that happens, but time is still a factor, and I bet those Eight O'Clock beans are old.

abooja, my advice to you is to sacrifice three ounces of beans to the coffee gods and incinerate the damned things. I really think you will be surprised by both how long it takes and how dark you can get them before they start to actually burn. Obviously it could still be a trick of the light, but your roast above looks quite light to me.

[glepore]

Chris-I used that setup for 3+yrs and it worked well, will do one lb easily-but I gotta confess that I melted 3 or 4 stir crazies during that time-there's so much some involved that you need to roast outdoors, and in the winter its too easy to go in thinking you'll come back out in 15 min to check on first crack, then get distracted... Recently changed over to a Behmor, and its worth every penny of the 300 bucks-given that you'll invest 100 in the stir crazy setup-but the big limitation is 1/2 lb roasts if you want City+ or better. But you can roast inside-there's odor but no smoke.

Way off topic, just replaced my NS Oscar with a Breville Dual, and it is an incredible machine - nothing even close at its pricepoint.

[rotuts]

Well SM will help you if you get winning lottery tickets with this:

http://www.coffeeshrub.com/shrub/content/quest

look at the vids Tom has and it will aid you in your roasting with this machine or not!

[abooja]

Another day, another roast...

Today, it was three ounces of Sweet Maria's "Ethiopia Illubabor Baaroo", roasted for exactly eleven minutes. Strangely, or maybe not so strangely, First Crack began shortly after two minutes, but continued, on occasion, through eight minutes. I believe I heard flickers of Second Crack, but I could have been imagining that.

Here they are on the right, with my control beans, Eight O'Clock Colombian, on the left:

I think, overall, they look very similar in color, particularly in this shot:

There was even a bit of sheen to some of my beans. Not that I am looking for sheen. Once again, I tried to measure bean temperature with an infrared thermometer and, once again, they reached a peak of 410 degrees Fahrenheit, before dropping to the upper 300s. I would love to know the exact reason for that. 410 is certainly within First Crack range, but the beans would had to have been scorched, losing all moisture, before cooling back down that much. Assuming that did not happen, it is clear that measuring temperature with an infrared thermometer is not particularly useful.

Incidentally, I tasted the last of my Brazilian roast, two days later, and rather enjoyed it compared to my earlier efforts. I brewed it more strongly this time, plus the beans had two full days to age. If I had enough beans to make more than the one cup, I could have toyed with different strengths. I have no idea if it was the aging or the coffee to water ratio that improved the drinking experience, but I'll take it.

[rotuts]

try roasting until you get very dark oily beans. as a test of your roaster. I'm guessing your roaster is having trouble getting to French and beyond. As a point of learning.

[abooja]

I have been roasting longer and longer each time, but have been loathe to burn the beans, despite encouragement to do so. After reading the following discussion...

http://www.sweetmari...t=2436&start=30

...I think I have an explanation for why First Crack happens so soon, but then many minutes pass, and the beans still do not burn. The thermostat on my 1040 watt popper causes a stall, prolonging First Crack and possibly preventing Second Crack from ever happening. Perhaps my infrared readings were correct, and my imagination did get the best of me.

Rather than go to the trouble of modifying a cheap popcorn popper, I will likely venture into the heat gun method, and larger batch sizes, sometime soon.

[rotuts]

OK but ... you are not going to 'Burn the Beans' you are simply taking a small amount of beans to the threshold of your current equipment. As a 'study.'

French Roast is not 'burnt.'

You may decide to roast with a different system which is fine. But learn as you go. After all, as 'The Perfect Cup' is a personal experience.

http://www.newyorkbarista.com/the-perfect-cup-2/

so wing it a little more and learn!

[MikeHartnett]

Once again, I tried to measure bean temperature with an infrared thermometer and, once again, they reached a peak of 410 degrees Fahrenheit, before dropping to the upper 300s. I would love to know the exact reason for that. 410 is certainly within First Crack range, but the beans would had to have been scorched, losing all moisture, before cooling back down that much. Assuming that did not happen, it is clear that measuring temperature with an infrared thermometer is not particularly useful.

I am not in any way, shape, or form what you would call a "science person," so wait for Chris Hennes to confirm, but I believe the heat loss is because first crack is an exothermic reaction, meaning that the crack results from the bean expelling heat. It seems like that might explain the loss of heat at that point. Then again, a lot of things that seem right to me are not, as I have been informed by my biologist fiancée.

French Roast is not 'burnt.'

Actually, according to Sweet Maria's, French Roast is basically defined as the nearly complete burning of the beans' sugars. Of course, roasting coffee is about caramelizing the sugars in the beans, so I guess it depends on what stage you'd consider "burnt."

[cdh]

Chris-I used that setup for 3+yrs and it worked well, will do one lb easily-but I gotta confess that I melted 3 or 4 stir crazies during that time-there's so much some involved that you need to roast outdoors, and in the winter its too easy to go in thinking you'll come back out in 15 min to check on first crack, then get distracted...

Thanks for the pointer, Greg. Will have to make sure I've got a loud countdown alarm too.

You know, it seems there might be a local quorum of us to get together sometimg and help abooja out getting the feel of roasting... If our eG location strings are up to date, we're all within a half hour of Allentown, and all south of the Lehigh Valley proper... maybe a meetup might help get abooja's roasting and coffeemaking on track.

[glepore]

]

You know, it seems there might be a local quorum of us to get together sometimg and help abooja out getting the feel of roasting... If our eG location strings are up to date, we're all within a half hour of Allentown, and all south of the Lehigh Valley proper... maybe a meetup might help get abooja's roasting and coffeemaking on track.

Yup. I'd be game, think she's likely within a couple miles of me, I'm near intersection of King's Highway (Geryville Pike) and Limeport Pike.

[rotuts]

Went back to SW to see the color chart vs temp vs name.

Its true they say 'full french' French Roast is basically defined as the nearly complete burning of the beans' sugars.

however light FR to Full FR has a 10 degree range. As I use a temp probe to keep a consistency to my roasts ( external mass not internal bean) i can tell you those 10 degrees at the 445 range are night and day.

so ... how dark will the popper pop?

million years ago Melita sold an electric air roaster. I got it and tried it and it never got past LT City, which I dont care for. Gave it away.

took about 15 more years hear about SM and to learn to roast magnificent coffee!

[abooja]

An eG coffee get together sounds like a fun idea! I'm willing to host, if you're willing to travel. It will take a bit of planning -- and four-wheel drive. Our driveway is steep and gravelly.

I'm drinking a cup of my latest (Ethiopian) roast, aged 48+ hours, and it's not half bad -- not terribly complex, and very light bodied. (This sounds exactly like my last review.) It doesn't taste any more darkly roasted than the Brazilian roast, despite having been roasted an additional few minutes. I actually think I preferred the Brazilian beans. Since the popper seems to stall after First Crack, but stays quite hot, despite not getting any hotter, I wonder what the effect is on the finished product. Is it sort of like searing a steak on a hot pan, then finishing it in the oven? Or toasting spices low and slow instead of hot and fast? Does the coffee not still cook? Regardless, this is clearly not the preferred approach to roasting coffee, and coffee beans will never get to a Full City+ or French roast with an unmodified popcorn popper. After recently tasting, and enjoying, a professionally roasted French blend, I realize that I am not averse to dark roasts, just overextracted coffee.

[rotuts]

just what do you mean by 'over extracted?' I'd stop worrying about the oil on the 'fresh' beans and keep notes and what you like 'in the cup'

I take it you put milk in your coffee? No big deal, but milk from non-fat to cream mutes the taste of of the coffee itself. Thats not a personal concern, as you are after your own 'Perfect Cup'

as roasting temps increase its true the 'varietal' nature of the 'bean' get somewhat lost. So What? this isnt wine

worry less on what your read and see and get to your own 'Perfect Cup'

not to give your 'Bad Dreams' but it has also been said from the Coffee Cognoscenti ( ) that milk is added to coffee due to an over burnt roast or by those that really don't like Coffee.

Not by me of course: keep experimenting and keep track!

forget until you get to "The Cup" the 'froo-froo'

at least you get your Greens form SM, they would not sell a 'bad bean'

[mkayahara]

My Sweet Maria's order arrived last week, so I roasted my first half-pound on the weekend, and let it rest until this morning. I started with the Sumatra Lintong Dolok Sanggul. A roaster friend who has some experience with Sweet Maria's coffees recommended I be careful with the Sumatra, recommending I take it just past first crack, so that's what I did. I'm terrible at doing formal tasting notes, but I will say that I'm very much enjoying the cup: it's got an earthy fruitiness to it, and I can see why "tree bark" appears in the tasting notes on the bag. It's also got much nicer acidity than any of the other coffees I've been roasting. This isn't necessarily the type of coffee I would want to drink every day, but it's definitely good.

I also have to say that it kills me that, apart from exchange rate (which, of course, fluctuates), it's actually cheaper for me to order from Sweet Maria's than to buy locally in Toronto... even when the shipping is included.

[cdh]

An eG coffee get together sounds like a fun idea! I'm willing to host, if you're willing to travel. It will take a bit of planning -- and four-wheel drive. Our driveway is steep and gravelly.

Let's plot and scheme after this godawful weather breaks. I can bring along my elderly FreshRoast. I'm in the middle of constructing a TurboCrazy roaster, so that project may be done as well, though I make no promises that I'll get it completed by any particular date. And perhaps various coffee prep methods would be useful to experiment with for you as well. I have a spare Gaggia espresso machine mothballed that could come along, as well as an Aeropress... those are my two primary methods of coffeemaking for myself... and it's an espresso 9 times out of 10 for me...

[Kerry Beal]

You guys could join us at the heartland gathering and bring along all your coffee stuff for the Saturday dinner (and the Sunday brunch)!

[cdh]

Heartland gathering? We're in Pennsylvania, not Chicagoland...

[Chris Hennes]

The Heartland Gathering is in Philly this year.

[cdh]

Wow... did not realize that.... guess that's what you get for not reading the midwest board. I'll definitely have to come out and play...

[abooja]

I recently made the switch to roasting with a cheap heat gun instead of a popcorn popper, and have finally been able to achieve darker roasts.

My first attempt was with four ounces of Sumatra Lintong Tano Batak beans, roasted for five minutes on low (750 degrees Fahrenheit) and nearly eight minutes on high (1,000 degrees F.) This roast was quite dark, having achieved both First Crack and most of Second Crack, from what I could tell. The resulting cup was too strong/bitter (I still don't know how to describe it), but drinkable when blended with other beans. Here it is on the right, next to some One Village Artist's Blend on the left:

My second attempt was just this morning. Four ounces of Colombian beans (same as first popper roast), also roasted for five minutes on low, but for about a minute and a half less on high, or about 30-60 seconds past First Crack. This time, I pulled the heat gun a bit farther away (4-5 inches instead of 1-2 inches) during the initial heating as well as the final few minutes of roasting. I think I achieved a very even, brown roast, similar in color to Eight O'Clock Colombian, which was purely by accident. Here it is in the center, along with Eight O'Clock on the right, and One Village on the left:

I can't wait to taste it on Saturday morning.

Edited August 2, 2012 by abooja (log)

[cdh]

You look like you're getting there! Hope Saturday morning proves it on your taste buds. Looking at this reminds me that I need to do some roasting.

[mkayahara]

So this thread got thoroughly derailed from Chris' original intention, but I thought I'd post a couple of notes anyway. In the past few weeks, I've roasted several half-pound batches of Sweet Maria's coffees. I really enjoyed the Burundi Karinzi Maruri Hill, roasted at Full City+, but both the Papua New Guinea Tairora Smallholders (City) and Ethiopia Illubabor Baaroo (City+; oddly, doesn't seem to be listed on their site) struck me as only so-so. I'm fully willing to believe that the problem lies exclusively in my roasting technique, however. With the remaining half-pound of the Ethiopian, I'm going to try a darker roast, and see how that does.