Substituting gelatin in a recipe because of syneresis

[Lia Tumkus]

Hi Guys,

this is my first time posting here! \o/

The cakes I make have a gelatin insert inside and because it's covered with mousse and it has a particular shape I have to freeze it. I also spray it with chocolate so I do need it quite frozen for it.

The problem is when it's starts to defrost the cakes with a gelatin layer start to sweat way more than it should and sometime it even brakes the mousse wall because there is so much water that needs to come out. Researching I found out about syneresis and I learn that gelatin shouldn't be freeze in any circumstances, now I am looking for other types of gelatins/gums to substitute my gelatin.

Does anybody knows any thaw freeze stable gelatin that I can use (and the ratios)? I am also looking for a gelatin with a good mouthfeel.

I'll be glad to try any suggestions,

Thanks guys!!!

Lia

[Karri]

Hello and welcome!

Please tell us what does your gelatin layer contain?

[Lia Tumkus]

I have a vanilla, a lemon grass and a whisky gelatin. All in different cakes.

My basic recipe for the vanilla gelatin is 45g water, 15g sugar, 2g (1 gold leaf ) 200 bloom gelatin and 7g vanilla paste.

Another big headache is the one with alcohol content, that naturally dehydrates the gelatin protein. The basic recipe for that one is 40g water, 10g sugar, 29g whisky and 2,5g g (1 1/4 gold leaf ) 200 bloom gelatin.

[Shalmanese]

Have you tried agar agar?

[KennethT]

Agar will have syneresis also - hence agar clarification...

[Tri2Cook]

I tend to favor gellan for those types of projects. Great flavor release, a nice mouth feel and much higher resistance to syneresis, including freeze/thaw induced, than I've found with gelatin or agar. Low acyl has the best resistance to syneresis but the texture of the gel is more like that achieved with agar, cutting it with some high acyl (in the 25%-30% range) improves the texture. That said, the required hold time may be a factor... people have been using gelatin for this purpose for a long time with good results but the item usually can't sit around for too long once thawed. As a final note, I've found that freezing an item completely in order to get the "velvet" look when spraying chocolate is not at all necessary. The exterior of the item does need to be very cold for it to work really well, but not "frozen solid". A light hand with the sprayer and keep it moving, the chocolate will set plenty quick enough on a well chilled item. I like to give it a light coat, chill it in the freezer again for a few minutes, and hit it with another light coat.

[Lia Tumkus]

Shalmanese and KennethT,

I've try agar before, is the easiest things to find here, unfortunately it doesn't work out for this purpose, it makes my work very limited and I don't really like the agar mouthfeel.

Tri2cook,

Gellan sounds like a great idea, although is very hard for me to get my hands on this product where I live (Brazil), I will do my best to find it

I'm keeping in mind your advices about frozen cakes and spraying. Freezing is part of the assembly but it's good to know cakes don't have to be frozen solid.

I have a limited resources here and I was thinking about experimenting with tara gum and xanthan gum together (easy to find). I read it can work well together but I have no idea about ratios. Have anybody ever worked with these items?

I also have access to pectin LM and I was thinking that it could also work, but not so sure how much should I use to actually make a gelatin out of it.

Thanks guys for giving me a bit of attention, I would love to hear more about it if you have more insights.

[Shalmanese]

Modernist Pantry ships worldwide.

[Lia Tumkus]

I know I can get my hands on anything nowadays, it's just too expensive for me to be able to sell my product afterwards

[Panaderia Canadiense]

LIa, have you experimented with mandioca / tapioca as a gelling agent? I'm not sure how it works syneresis wise, but it would certainly be worth a shot. It might also be worthwhile to investigate Konjac (Glucomanan), which should also be available in Brazil (at least, it is here in Ecuador, and we're a much smaller market!)

[Lia Tumkus]

Oh, that's good to know, I would definitely research about it!!! Thanks for the insight

[Lia Tumkus]

Just an update on my gelatin crisis, I did a test with 0,8g tara gum and 0,2g xanthan gum for 100ml liquid (whisky+sugar+water) and I did end up with a form of jelly. Unfortunately not a clean jelly like you get with gelatin, the texture is a bit off, stringy and opaque. So I guess I cannot simply substitute one thing for another... maybe I just have to find a way to improve my gelatin so it won't sweat as much.

[teonzo]

Sosa has a good variety about gelling agents:

http://www.sosa.cat/textures.php?idfamilia=gelificantes&idgrup=texturas&idgama=ingredients-gastronomics&PHPSESSID=b3c8ca75a363d9945299949ef5c7c591

Elastic and Metilgel seem to be an help for you.

I suppose Sosa has a retailer in Brazil, since some Brasilian high end restaurants use their products. If you contact them then they should be able to give you some technical support.

Teo

[Lia Tumkus]

Thanks Teo! I'm gonna look for that right now

[kleinebre]

I've got a PDF here called "Texture - a hydrocolloid recipe collection". It's available for free download online, just Google for it.

About agar-agar syneresis, it says "Syneresis: yes (can be prevented by replacing 0.1-0.2% agar with locust bean gum)".