Methinks "The Farmers' Market Myth" is a Myth

[tim]

Hi,

Our farmer's market is limited to locally grown products with farm inspections being held annually or more frequently. All of the vendors are the producers and know what varieties they are selling. There is very little product that is available grocery stores. Most of the products In example.

• Big Red Mustard is not available at our groceries.
  Rosa Bianco eggplant and about 30 other varieties. (about 1/3 the price of Whole Foods)
  20 or more varieties of tomatoes. Where else can you purchase Green zebra Tomatoes or Pineapple tomatoes?
  Pristine Oyster mushrooms are picked the morning they are sold. 20% premium but better flavor and higher yield.
  BB size russet potatoes are not available at any local grocer. The same for inexpensive quarter sized potatoes of all varieties.
  Ground cherries are only available at the farmer's market.
  Serotta basil and other unusual herb varieties are available only at the farmer's market at lower prices than groceries.
  Purple asparagus is much cheaper at the farmer's market.
  We have a grower of peppers (hot, dried and smoked) that are much cheaper than the grocery stores.
  Smoking wood at 1/3 the cost of grocery stores.
  How about 40 variety of pumpkins/squashes not sold at grocery stores.
  We also get Gold Rush Apples (none in grocery stores) and a dozen other heirloom varieties at prices below the grocery stores.
  Asian pears at grocery store prices have FLAVOR that shock you. Longer time on the tree means more acid/sugar.
  1" long Fairy Tale eggplant are never available at any grocer.
  Peaches are dramatically better quality than local groceries and at much lower prices.
  Corn is also much higher quality (Peaches and Cream) and much cheaper than local groceries.
  The flowering plants are better quality, unusual and much less expensive than local garden centers.
  The strawberries are separated by variety at competitive prices.
  How about $5/pound heirloom turkeys raised in a sunflower field?
  How about Mangalitsa hogs finished on acorns?
  Egg sized cabbages are wonderful for grilling and not available at grocers.
  

My point is that the cost argument may come down to an apples/oranges comparison. This may also say something about living in an area of truck farms with growing conditions that allow for a range of produce. Buying only from knowledgeable producers who have become close friends also helps. Many of them hold produce back if you are running late on FM day.

My experience in Chicago is that farmers market sellers know nothing about their varieties and much of the produce looks like it came from the local wholesale market.

My experience in NYC is that the game birds were the best bargain. The other stuff did look really expensive.

[Chris Amirault]

tim, your information supports my point. How can someone buy their groceries for the same or less at the farmers' market if none of them are available?

[Holly Moore]

A related issue - I would rather support the local farmer who knows every square inch of his fields than the larger corporate farmers who consider natural flavor acceptable collateral damage in the battle for increased yield, size, appearance and shelf life.

[Chris Amirault]

So would, and do, I. And I pay more, not the same or less, for that.

[SobaAddict70]

A farmer at a farmer's market will usually charge more for his product but not so much that it would drive away customers. He's probably just breaking even. If the product is "hot", like heirloom tomatoes or ramps, he might even turn a small profit. But that's not to be expected.

There just seems to be a ... I don't know what to call it, disdain, maybe? For farmers' markets and Greenmarkets. Maybe I'm seeing something that's not there.

I surely hope you don't think that just because you pay more for food at your local greenmarket, that the people who sell those products are rolling in dough. Because they're probably not.

[Chris Amirault]

I don't know at whom that's directed, but I certainly don't have disdain or contempt. Rather, I think that Pollan is correct: there's a bunch of rich farmers making food for poor people, and a bunch of poor farmers making food for rich people -- who pay more for that food.

I ain't rich, but I care about the food I eat and I know that I pay more for that better, farmers' market food than I would at a supermarket. The article argues that I'm suffering from a myth; my checkbook argues otherwise.

[SobaAddict70]

I can think of one item that could possibly be cheaper at UGSM. Unsalted butter typically sells for $3.50 for 8 ounces, from Ronnybrook Farms. Compare that to unsalted butter at your local Associated -- can be as much as $5 if we're talking about Lurpak.

[SobaAddict70]

I don't know at whom that's directed, but I certainly don't have disdain or contempt. Rather, I think that Pollan is correct: there's a bunch of rich farmers making food for poor people, and a bunch of poor farmers making food for rich people -- who pay more for that food.

I ain't rich, but I care about the food I eat and I know that I pay more for that better, farmers' market food than I would at a supermarket. The article argues that I'm suffering from a myth; my checkbook argues otherwise.

It's not directed at anyone.

It's just a trend I've noticed on eGullet and elsewhere. There's a common misconception that the people who produce and sell the food are ripping off the public because of the prices they charge for it.

If only that were true.

[Zeemanb]

Interesting topic- We joined our first CSA this year and I am pretty religious about getting as much of our weekly produce from the farmer’s markets as possible once the fun begins. At approximately $10/wk this season, the contents of this week’s CSA basket (spring onions, extra large bag of fresh spinach, radishes, oregano and marjoram starters) is comparable to what I’d buy at the store and nursery especially considering the amount we received...not a massive difference, maybe a little bit cheaper than retail.

A couple of meager contributions in an attempt to provide hard numbers:

Morel Mushrooms- $25/lb at my farmer’s market (big blonde beauties) vs. $50/lb at Whole Foods within the past 2 weeks (small, dried up)

Oyster Mushrooms- ~$7/lb at the market vs. $9/lb at my local store

[Katie Meadow]

I'm guilty, I know, of making remarks about the high prices at some farmers' markets. I don't shop the Ferry Building in SF. I do sometimes shop the Berkeley Farmers' market and sometimes the Oakland/Chinatown farmers' market. The difference in prices between those two farmers' markets is staggering. Surely the prices reflect a lot of variables: size of the farm, methods of farming, organic or not, type of merchandise. Of course my bags of groceries will cost five times as much in Berkeley if I am buying charcuterie, grass fed whatever, organic avocadoes, organic baby collards, etc., while in Oakland I am buying gigantic bunches of Thai basil or other Asian greens.

Last August I was buying peaches in Berkeley for $5-6 lb. At the Oakland market they were half that price. Sometimes the fruit was good, sometimes not nearly as good as from my favorite seller in Berkeley. I shop the Berkeley Farmers' market mainly May through October. I'm willing to pay premium prices for fabulous lettuces, corn, tomatoes, stone fruits, okra and fresh edamame. The baby collards are $2 for a small bunch. Certain supermarket items can never compare in quality to these things, even if that supermarket is Berkeley Bowl, where I can get a four times the weight in collards for the same price, but they are older and leathery. Meanwhile I do not in any way assume that any of the small organic farmers are taking much profit. Farming is a hard life, even if you are a wall-street drop out.

I think a pretty long-term study is needed to really get an overview of pricing and value, and it probably varies widely across the country. Otherwise I agree we are comparing apples to oranges.

[StanSherman]

In the US the "Farmers' Markets" was created to allow small farmers and home growers a way to market products without standardized labeling and packaging. The idea is that when you have the grower in front of you the packaging is not really necessary.

Notwithstanding the abuses to the system, most products in the Northern US are not going to be a bargain this time of year. I have managed a market, sold at different markets and been involved in the politics. Usually our "profit" from a market comes from the trading we do with other vendors.

I personally won't do the markets anymore because spending two days a week haggling over the price of an onion isn't worth it for me.

[mgaretz]

My impression is that in general, things are higher in Farmer's Markets, but also usually the quality is higher too.

On the other hand, two weeks ago we picked up a beautiful head of cauliflower for $2, the same thing (but not as nice and not organic) at the market was $3.49 on sale.

[tim]

... I cannot think of a single item, be it produce, meat, dairy, whatever, that is less expensive at the farmers' market I frequent.

Anyone with me?

Chris,

This seems to be your point. While that may be true at your farmers market it is certainly not true at our market or others.

It is also obvious that your goal or desire to buy cheaper food at a farmers market seems unusual. I suggest that you go the the less regulated farmers markets, the markets that purchase at local wholesaler and resell cheap, the markets without heirloom produce, the markets with no real farmers. You can find those "farmers" markets in many major cities. These should make you happy.

Tim

[avaserfi]

I haven't compared prices for about 6 months now, but last I did overall it was cheaper for us to be on a CSA and shop at the farmers' market with supplemental shopping at the grocery store than it is to shop entirely at the grocery store. Add the fact that we get fresher ingredients and ingredients often not available at the grocery store and I think we have a winner. We live in a smaller town, at its peak we might have 20 farmers at the market, but it does run most of the year. Off season brings 5-8 farmers.

Off the top of my head melons, jams, carrots, kohlrabi, shallots, cabbage, leeks, tomatoes, eggplant, braising greens and lettuce are generally cheaper at the market. Eggs are slightly more expensive, garlic is about 3x the price (but it comes fresh with the greens and all at the farmers' market), and radishes are double. Depending on the season, berries fluctuate from being cheaper to more expensive. Meat is always pricier at the market. Although I never buy them, I recall baked goods also being similarly priced. Squashes tend to be similarly priced as well. Milk is much more expensive (2x) but that is raw, straight from the farm, I pick it up once a week and it was milked the day before. Oddly, cream is no more expensive from the same farmer.

One thing I did notice, when I started sourcing from a CSA and local market our grocery bill dropped by about $20 a week. This was primarily because our eating habits changed. Rather than writing a list ahead of time and deciding what we needed before seeing it, I just go and get what looks good then make our meals from that. The result is us eating more fresh vegetables than ever which are almost always cheaper than buying meat (even the mass produced stuff). Shopping like this has also helped my cooking immensely.

[Chris Amirault]

It is also obvious that your goal or desire to buy cheaper food at a farmers market seems unusual. I suggest that you go the the less regulated farmers markets, the markets that purchase at local wholesaler and resell cheap, the markets without heirloom produce, the markets with no real farmers. You can find those "farmers" markets in many major cities. These should make you happy.

That's not my goal in the least.

As I've repeatedly said in this topic -- and skeptics can see evidence of this claim in my recent foodblog -- I am precisely the sort that wants to purchase these products and I will do so at a mark-up that I consider absolutely fair.

The Atlantic article and related report suggest that the price differential is a myth. I believe it is far from a myth, even if there are exceptions here and there.

[Chris Amirault]

I haven't compared prices for about 6 months now, but last I did overall it was cheaper for us to be on a CSA and shop at the farmers' market with supplemental shopping at the grocery store than it is to shop entirely at the grocery store.

The article's claim is about farmers' markets, though, not CSAs. I'm sure that CSAs can offer more food at lower prices, -- that is part of the point of CSAs for farmers and consumers both -- and as a long-time CSA member, I appreciated that savings to a point. That point was reached when I was forced to find uses for another ten pounds of zucchini one late August.

[avaserfi]

I haven't compared prices for about 6 months now, but last I did overall it was cheaper for us to be on a CSA and shop at the farmers' market with supplemental shopping at the grocery store than it is to shop entirely at the grocery store.

The article's claim is about farmers' markets, though, not CSAs. I'm sure that CSAs can offer more food at lower prices, -- that is part of the point of CSAs for farmers and consumers both -- and as a long-time CSA member, I appreciated that savings to a point. That point was reached when I was forced to find uses for another ten pounds of zucchini one late August.

Yeah, I had to include the CSA because it is such a big part of our food habits that it is sometimes hard to separate. I did try to do just that with my second paragraph trying to only refer to the farmer's market. The zucchini can get rough, last year I did find a huge inspiration in Mexican inspired cuisine.

[Paul Kierstead]

I find the kinda broad generalization about the price, in either direction, to be kind of weird. We have several farmers markets (and one not-so-farmer market) around here and the prices range quite widely, depending on location. In general, closer to the core is more expensive, even for the same producer. Quite a bit more expensive. More rural tends to be cheaper. Also, some larger producers sell cheaper, but are not at all markets. Some very premium meat producers only go to one of the markets. So to make a blanket statement about the cost would be pretty insane, at least here. I'd bet this is the case in a lot of urban areas.

In addition, counting the cost without the quality seems to be a fools errand. For example, the market *I* go to is definitely more expensive then my neighborhood supermarket. The quality is also significantly better at that market. If I compare my farmers market to the top grocer in town, the quality is much more comparable, but so are the prices.

Furthermore, how much you buy is a big driver. Many producers will happily sell you a bushel or whatever for a much reduced cost with no haggling, you just has to ask "how much for X".

Given the fluidity of location, time, quality, quantity, etc. I fail to see how such sweeping generalizations of "X is cheaper then Y" can be helpful.

[Zeemanb]

One thing I did notice, when I started sourcing from a CSA and local market our grocery bill dropped by about $20 a week. This was primarily because our eating habits changed. Rather than writing a list ahead of time and deciding what we needed before seeing it, I just go and get what looks good then make our meals from that. The result is us eating more fresh vegetables than ever which are almost always cheaper than buying meat (even the mass produced stuff). Shopping like this has also helped my cooking immensely.

Veering off the topic a bit, but since this cuts to the very heart of my philosophy of overall cost, value, education, responsibility, etc...just wanted to say ditto -

Overall, our focus on using as much local/seasonal produce and meat is more expensive up front, but the “improvisational” aspect mentioned above forces us to cook and eat differently as well. We eat less meat and more produce, and the one major thing I’d add is we end up wasting MUCH less…for intangible reasons beyond just the extra cost, we tend to value the market goods more and find ways to use them up. Factory farmed mega-mart stuff just seems more “expendable”...as illogical as that may be. Our big bag of spinach will make it into at least three main meals...spinach salad, topping for chicken salad sandwiches, quesadillas, etc. It takes more work, but we have more control, we learn more, and we know the actual people providing us with most of our food. The difference in cost is negligible compared to the exponential difference in value.

Regarding “disdain”, all I have to do is mention any of this to co-workers in the lunch room to experience THAT. I’m definitely not preachy, but will get laughed off as some kind of space alien or hippie, or like I think I’m a rich yuppie...you realize how far removed you are from the majority of consumers who will hit the farmer’s markets once or twice a year. Not going to get off on THAT tangent, but will say- I’m the odd man out with my co-workers and many of my family members, but when I bring food to the monthly luncheon or picnic my rating goes from weirdo to rock star within two bites .

[MT-Tarragon]

I'll have to do some checking this weekend, but there are a couple of items that I know off the top of my head are cheaper at the farmer's market. One is Après Vin infused grapeseed oils. These are about 30% less expensive at the market than in local stores. They are becoming a bigger company so maybe they shouldn't count, but it is still produced locally. Also one of the local wineries sells a very nice red blend for $10/liter at the market -- more than 50% off shop pricing. Flowers are another. I can get flower arrangements for even less than at Costco, and I can request what flowers are in the bouquets or specify a color theme for them to make. I believe that a lot of the vegetables are cheaper and berries are cheaper in season, but I'll have to do some comparing this weekend.

Some items are hard to compare. I can get free range eggs for $4/doz which is slightly more expensive than at the store, but the store eggs I don't know if free range only means that there was a little door in the shed which the chickens never used. I've been to the local farm and seen the chickens scratching in the fields, so I know how they were raised. Cheeses are hard to compare, too. You have enough price differences at the store for something like goat cheese; do you compare the market cheese to only the cheapest at the store?

[Bartow]

Hi, Chris and all:

Our two local farmers' markets in Hillsborough, NC (they are not on speaking terms, which is another tale)generally charge more for a comparable item than the local supermarkets. However, as some posters have pointed out, a FM tomato is not a supermarket tomato in terms of taste, ripeness, etc., so it sometimes comes down to intangibles - how much extra will I pay for something that tastes good?

I'm presently in France, where the local marché volant is a fixture almost everywhere; here, the "Atlantic proposition" is true: The produce in the markets is generally cheaper and better than in the supermarkets. I haven't been here long enough (and can't speak French well enough)to solve the mystery of how an enterprise that has to build and tear down its stalls on a given day, and move to another location and do it all over again the next day, can possibly break even. This is possibly a digression from Chris's topic, for which I apologize.

Bartow

[Moopheus]

I think it would take a lot of work to compile enough information to make a real comparison, since there's so much variability. Season, location, variety of food are all factors. That said, I'd say that on average, the nearest farmers' market to me has prices that are above what I pay for conventional produce at the store I usually go to, but not very much, except for some items. Relatively ordinary items, like carrots, corn, and so on, can actually be quite cheap, but some fruits are expensive, though when it is peak season for them, they're much better than anything else I can get.

We are also on a CSA plan, and it is a bit expensive, but the amount of food we get in our allotment is usually substantial. In fact, some weeks it can be a challenge to use it all! I packed my freezer with all kinds of soup for the winter.

Another thing about farmer's markets being only for the well-off--I'd have to say, from my experience, that this is not strictly true. There seems to be a growing trend among markets to be set up to take payments from government assistance programs--food stamps and the like.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I've priced fish at the Union Square Greenmarket, and usually it's less expensive than at the better fishmarkets in the city that have fish of similar quality, particularly for oysters. Sometimes the local lobster are a little more at the Greenmarket. I've noticed fish being less at the Union Square Greenmarket than at the Greenpoint-Williamsburg Greenmarket, perhaps because it is a different vendor, but also it may be that there are often two fish vendors at Union Square, only one at Greenpoint.

[J-M Paris]

I bought eggs at a local farmers' market last summer, at a stand operated by the egg producer himself (years-round). The same dozen eggs (same producer, same carton, same size eggs, etc.) at my grocery store was at that time 20 cents cheaper. I checked again a few times since and de price is consistently higher at the farmer's market. When I asked the producer why he was selling at a higher price, he just said that he did not control the price charged at the grocery store (thank God).

While cheaper than the farmer's market, big banner stores are still far too expensive with regard to fresh produces and meat. Smaller chains often have lower prices.

That's free market. Just make sure you are aware of price differences that may make a huge difference to you if you are on a budget. If you are not on a budget, just learn not to be bothered by the fact that you are being exploited.

[peicook]

Interesting what one sees even if by accident.

I am a regular at our local farmers Market here in Charlottetown PEI. I don't mind paying a bit more in most instances to support our local growers. Often, in season, we pay less.

Last fall, we spent several weeks in Montreal in a condo that belongs to friends. I couldn't wait for the first Saturday to trek to the huge Jean Talon market. We parked a few blocks away and came in off a side street rather than through one of the main entrances. Behind one of the very large booths, we saw a person repackaging blueberries from a commercial grower operation into little fruit boxes and selling them as " organic..just picked this morning". I am so sorry I saw that...it has made a cynic of me.

Helen