Tweaking Chicken Stock : For those looking to improve theirs

[Chris Hennes]

I've taken the eGCI Course on Stock, I've read the Chicken Stock topic, and I've made a lot of the stuff, but I'm still not terribly pleased with my chicken stock. I'm trying to narrow down the culprits, and figure out what really matters when trying to make a first class chicken stock. I've tried with and without vegetables, I've tried with just carcasses, with carcasses and feet, and with whole birds. I've tried with various combinations of herbs, etc. Still, something escapes me.

What I want to know is: what can I do to fine-tune my stock? What are those little tricks that don't get mentioned in the "big picture stock making" literature? What is your grandmother's top secret addition that adds that extra awesomeness?

[Chris Amirault]

I found that I was overrelying on backs, wings, bones, carcasses, and other non-meaty components. When I need stock now, I usually poach two chickens just until they're done, reserve the meat for salad or something, and then use that stock as the base for one that includes the scraps I've saved. I'm also a bit fanatical about keeping the temperature very low.

[Chris Hennes]

When you say "keeping the temperature low," how low are we talking? Do you measure it, or just eyeball the bubbling?

[Chris Amirault]

Eyeball bubbling these days. One every three or four seconds. A lazy, drunken simmer.

[Fat Guy]

I've been tweaking my stock over the years and I think the primary lesson I've taken away is that better chicken makes better stock. I don't think it's realistic to use fancy chickens for routine stockmaking, but I've found a good compromise: The place I shop, Fairway, started selling Murray's backs and necks for cheap. So there you have a higher-quality brand than I'd normally use for stock, and they give you the part of the chicken that I think is best for stock. The way they butcher them they have plenty of meat attached so you can use them to drive the whole stock, which comes out very rich without any off flavors.

[jenc]

Though I don't know what your stock end-goal truly is, Chris summed it up well. Two things my mother taught me: use only just enough water and don't boil. I pretty much just leave it on simmer for hours, usually 4-6. I love it when it's all thick with the gelatin. Mmmm... chicken jello.

I wrote up a post on how I do chicken soup stock (Chinese style) earlier this year.

Edited July 19, 2010 by jenc (log)

[mkayahara]

It's hard to give any advice on how to improve chicken stock when you don't say what it is you're not happy with!

Personally, I've gotten to a point where I like the flavour and am happy with the clarity - I try and simmer between 180F and 190F - but I've never been that happy with the gel. As in, I don't get any. I'm not sure if I'm not simmering long enough, don't have enough of the right parts (I use whole spent laying hens from my egg guy at the farmers' market), or if I'm just using too much water for the amount of chicken I have. Thoughts appreciated.

[KateinChicago]

I am a huge fan of Lynn Rosetto Kasper's "brodo" from "The Splendid Table". It packs a ton of flavor and, as she suggests, is great on its' own with just a handful of grated parmesan cheese for a restorative soup. It calls for beef shanks or soup bones as well as poultry (I use turkey wings and cut up chicken parts instead of capon which is pricey and not so easy to find) and has a very long cooking time over low heat. Basically it calls for 2 to 3 lbs of beef shanks, 8 or 9 lbs of cut up poultry, 3 stalks celery and 3 carrots choppped, 4 very large onions chopped, Bay leaves, crushed garlic and fresh parsley sprigs. Cook over low after an initial low bubble boil for 12 to 14 hours. Strain and defat. I make this 2 to 3 times per year in my 8 and 12 quart stock pots and use it for everything from soups and gravies to sauces. From 20 quarts it yields 8 quarts which I greatly reduce as my freezer space is limited. I freeze in quart sized zip lock bags as well as put some of the reduced stock in ice cube sized portions for making individual bowls of broth and/or gravy for two.

I LOVE this stuff! If you make home made tortellini this is the perfect vehicle for tortellini in brodo but it also improves any home made soup to the point that I can discern its absence when I run out and make due with a store bought low sodium substitute.

Kate

[Chris Amirault]

I've also been fastidious lately about washing off blood, organs, and whatever else processing left on the bird. Not sure how that effects quality, but I note fewer off-flavors than I used to have. This is especially true for chicken feet, which I sometimes even blanch in some water in the microwave before adding them.

What role are vegetables and aromatics playing in people's stock making? I definitely don't have a keen enough system for measuring and/or timing them....

[mkayahara]

What role are vegetables and aromatics playing in people's stock making? I definitely don't have a keen enough system for measuring and/or timing them....

I don't make a huge point of measuring the vegetables; I add whatever's on hand, almost always carrots, celery, onions and black pepper, and occasionally parsley and garlic. That said, the tip that I have found makes the most difference is to wait until the last hour of simmering before adding the (small-diced) vegetables. It's enough time for the vegetables to give their flavour to the stock, without making it taste tired.

[jenc]

I uh... don't use any veggies in mine. Unless you count the small nugget of ginger. Sometimes, I use pork too.

[dcarch]

I have found the following:

1. Pressure cooker makes the best and fastest stock.

2. Turkey necks make great "chicken" styock.

3. Chicken hearts, gizzards (spell?) make great stock.

4. Don't laugh, I would sometimes put a few beef bones in.

5. Free range chicken.

dcarch

Edited July 19, 2010 by dcarch (log)

[lancastermike]

I'm sure Chris H and Chris A and everyone else posting here would never do this, but just before you think it is done, drop in a Knorr's bouillon cube. It may be nasty fake stuff, but it will make your stock taste better than it ever has.

Edited July 19, 2010 by lancastermike (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Mushrooms provide that umami boost, too. As does a pinch of MSG. Just sayin'.

[heidih]

Mushrooms provide that umami boost, too. As does a pinch of MSG. Just sayin'.

Yes my Vietnamese cooking buddy used a mushroom powder added after the stock was cooled and tasted, and the Knorr is an MSG hit.

As to grandmother's secret- she insisted on a whole yellow onion studded with a few cloves. The only vegetables were whole peeled carrots and parsnips (cook's treats at end of simmer).

As previously mentioned the end uses for the stock make a difference. I have never been known for a subtle cooking style so my personal preference is to roast the chicken and bones (but not the feet) to get some color and then use a mix of bony and meaty. I am also not averse to using turkey necks or wings or game hen carcasses. When I was using more beef in general, I saved all the gristly trimmings and tossed them in the pot as well- perhaps the "beefiness" made up for the fact that I was not using anything above factory chicken which is not the most flavorful.

[Lapin d'Argent]

I second what JenC says about using barely enough water and simmering for a way long time. If you're using whole birds and want to use the meat, use Chris A's suggestion of removing the meat once it's cooked and returning the parts (preferably with yet more parts) and simmering more.

Once it's done, strain, chill overnight, skim (and save!) the fat, then reduce by half, or until it's the richness you're looking for.

Another option is to make a court buillon first, strain out the vegetables and seasonings, then use that as your poaching base. That way the flavorings are there, but the vegetables aren't getting all tired and bitter during the long poach.

Are you making stock that you only use when it's in a staring role, like soups, or is this something you use as an ingredient whenever you cook something that needs a little broth?

[tim]

Chris,

A few thoughts on improve stock:

Pack in as many bones as fit and add enough water to cover.

Do that second run; it only takes 5 minutes to set up.

Brown fresh chicken parts on a roasting rack in your oven. This creates a large amount of fond with beautiful flavor and color.

When reducing, pull a sample every 30 minutes and compare it to the flavor 30 minutes later. This will help you decide when to stop reducing.

Tim

[vgordin]

Three things that I have found greatly improve my stock...

1. Zapravka - At the end of the summer, we make something called "zapravka" (which means "seasoning" in Russian) from extra tomatoes we grow. Its equal parts by weight tomatoes, carrots, parsley, and salt. A few pulses in the food processor and it goes in into jars in the freezer until months later when its time to make stock. I use a tablespoon or two in place of salt.

2. The brulee onion - I split two small onions in half and char the cut sides. I then throw that in with the stock.

3. Temp - this has been mentioned upthread, but my grandma was pretty emphatic about not letting it get to a rolling boil. A low simmer is how I would best describe what I do.

This is of course all completely subjective as I have no idea how good your current stock is. I do know however that these are the things that have worked for me.

-Vadim

Edited July 19, 2010 by vgordin (log)

[Paul Stanley]

I can't say what would improve anyone else's stock (not least because I think it's a rather personal thing), but I can say what I think has improved mine over the years. In rough order of importance:

1. Very slow and long cooking. I aim for mine to hardly bubble at all -- just a shimmer on the surface, with a very occasional bubble.
   
2. A little salt. For years, following standard advice, I didn't. But I think that adding a tiny bit of salt (half a teaspoon or so) at the start of cooking somehow improves things.
   
3. Skimming. Particularly at first (which is the one time actually I will always bring it to a full boil, to get the scum up) but from time to time all the way through. I used to think "leave the scum and get it later". Now I skim rather meticulously.
   
4. Plenty of water -- reduce later if necessary. Others may get different results. But I think you get better stock (and certainly better gelling) from using a bit more water than you think you need to start with, allowing for evaporation while it cooks. If the end result is insipid, it can be boiled down quickly when it's strained.
   
5. Careful choice of aromatics. This is where I think things get personal. Indispensable for me are onion, parsley bay-leaf and a tiny piece of star anise (or I'll make do with a couple of cloves). Desirable are celery, carrot and a single tomato. Anathema are garlic, parsnip, potato, thyme, rosemary, citrus of any sort.
   

Bear in mind that most of the time I'm looking for a rather neutral stock -- not something you would want to drink on its own, but a base for soup or sauce or risotto, which is going to have to play nicely with other flavourings later. It's how it performs as an ingredient that counts, not how it tastes on its own. If I want a "meat broth" I will do as others suggest and poach a chicken, perhaps with a bit of beef as well, and many more aromatics for a much shorter period.

[nickrey]

I know stock is something that is created with the scraps in the kitchen but I use a free-range chicken for flavour. As the option is buying poor quality pre-made stock at a horrendous price, using a free range chicken is actually a comparative thrift measure. Remove the breasts and use them for something else.

The process given below contains a number of snippets of technique that improve both flavour and clarity. The whole is given to put it in context.

1. Immerse chicken in water, bring up to boil and immediately drain. This removes a lot of impurities.
   
2. Roast at 180C for a while to render fat and give a small amount of colour.
   
3. Mirepoix of celery, carrots, and onion (equal quantities) briefly softened in butter in pressure cooker without lid. Add white wine to cover, reduce by two thirds.
   
4. Add chicken, some old button mushrooms that have gone close to their peak in the fridge (the mushrooms add umami; I find star anise too overpowering in a general use stock).
   
5. Cover with water to about 1/3 above the ingredients. Bring to simmer and skim off any floating bits.
   
6. Add bay leaves and a few whole cloves of garlic.
   
7. Seal pressure cooker and bring to pressure. Keep cooker just at pressure for 1 ½ hours.
   
8. Turn off cooker, let it cool of its own volition sufficiently for top to be removed.
   
9. Take off top and add aromatics (eg. parsley stalks, thyme).
   
10. Let this infuse for around ½ an hour.
    
11. Remove stock by using a ladle (do not pour as you will stir up any debris that is in the pan).
    
12. Place in fridge, cool and scoop off any residual fat.
    
13. Strain through cheesecloth, bottle (I then can the stock for storage in my cupboard, but this needs to be done so as to ensure the integrity of the product. If you have not heard of and understand Fo values and total integrated lethal effect, forget it).
    
14. I don't use salt or any other seasoning. This keeps the stock pure to make it a base component that can be manipulated with appropriate flavourings later in the cooking process.
    

[Chris Amirault]

Fascinating to see the different culinary bents of these approaches, which tend, I think, toward the different cuisines for which the stocks will be put to use. To that end, I usually have at least three different stocks in the freezer: a Mexican stock with garlic, cilantro stems, and a chili or two of some sort; an Asian stock with garlic, ginger, scallion, and perhaps a piece of star anise or clove; and a Continental stock that tends to be richer and sticks to the basics (mirepoix, etc.).

[Fantastic Mr Fox]

In general classical French technique there should be twice as much onion as there is celery and carrots combined.

I find the addition of leek tops and the traditional bouquet garni: thyme, parsley stems, a few whole peppercorns, bay leaf. Sometimes I add a whole clove or two.

Overall, I find the best advice is that stock should taste like the meat...flavored by the aromatics. So don't use so much veggies etc to overwhelm the meat.

Also, too much water covering the mix will of course dilute your stock, but that can be corrected afterwards by reducing it.

I only add a burned onion if I'm making brown chicken stock for which I roast the chix bones and veggies first.

With respect to temperature, I always start with very cold water and simmer the stock between 170F and 180F (180F is technically "simmering" temperature, I believe). Never boil it.

I also find that how you cut your mirepoix is important to how long the stock cooks. The longer it is going to cook, the larger the chop of the veggies and vise versa. If the pieces of veg. are too small and the stock cooks too long the veg. will break down and affect the quality of your stock.

[scubadoo97]

I only add a burned onion if I'm making brown chicken stock for which I roast the chix bones and veggies first.

Adding the onion peel will give a nice color to your stock

[Chris Amirault]

Is that true? I've always wondered about that; seems a bit iffy to me.

[Fantastic Mr Fox]

I only add a burned onion if I'm making brown chicken stock for which I roast the chix bones and veggies first.

Adding the onion peel will give a nice color to your stock

Really? I'd think you would have to add an awful lot of onion skin to get any effect. And even so, I'd think it would simply color your stock not necessarily add any flavor.

If deeper color is the goal, you could achieve the same by adding a bit of tomato paste and also get some nice flavor.