The high-power blender topic

[daveb]

I see that I was more dismissive than intended.  I'll give article a look, but.

[daveb]

Now I can be dismissive. 

 

I took the "black dust" challenge and found none with 4 different containers spanning the last 5 years.  Poster's claim that if I found no dust "it's because you've eaten it all"  seems without merit.

 

Google results found the usual suspects trying to sell youtube views and print.  Boring stuff does not sell.  A Vmix churning water and releasing black kryptonite does.   Found one Vmix reply that any "dust" is from polysomething that is inert.  No one seemed to argue the inert part.  The technical jargon can be simplified (for my simple mind) to:  PTFE is inert until heated over 500F.  Boiling point of water is 212F.  No problem.

 

The cynical side of me concludes that by posting here about an internet myth (for lack of better word) is just perpetuating said myth and adding credibility to it.  Google it again 2morrow and find that EGullet readers not buying Vmix blenders because of mysterious black dust.  Video at 11:00.

[rotuts]

it seems i did not add the link I ref's :

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/virginiahughes/vitamix-blenders-spin-off-shards-of-teflon-but-its-probably#.ugYy8DLEW

 

I don't have this machine.  after reading the above, I can not see this as an "" internet myth ""

 

how important is this problem ?  thats a different issue.  but it seems not to be made up.

[btbyrd]

Some people complain about this phenomenon on the Raptor carafes used by the Waring XTreme blender. When I first got mine, I ran it for 60 seconds with some warm water and noticed some black floating bits. Then I ran it for another 2 minutes with warm water and soap, cleaned it out, and haven't seen any floaties since.

[IEATRIO]

I have a machine on order, but only after I was assured by Vitamix that all of the machines that they are currently shipping -- I ordered it directly from them so no worry about old stock at a retailer -- will not have the black dust problem.

 

Vitamix seems aware of and acknowledges the problem, so I think this is not properly classified as a myth.  I don't assume that the stuff is harmful, but speaking for myself I wouldn't want it in my food that I serve to my family.  I would also think that this could be a more significant problem for restaurants and commercial users for whom "non-nutritive substances" in their products could cause FDA regulatory problems, or affect HACCP plans and other local food safety compliance problems.  For me the biggest part of it is that I don't think that the way that Vitamix has handled this, by acknowledging the issue very quietly, but not publically, and therefore not allowing their user base to decide for themselves how much the issue bothers them.  I also think they should be offering to replace the defective jars for free and without hassle.  I held off on buying a Vitamix until I knew the issue was sorted, and others might have done the same if Vitamix had come clean about it and let people know.

[rotuts]

IEATRIO

 

exactly

 

this is a problem.

 

its real.

 

they have chosen the foolish and idiotic path of trying to not acknowledge the problem

 

w hopes it goes away.

 

this happens all the time w shallow thinking.

 

prize your customers, and do what you need to to make them whole.

 

huffing and puffing will get you no where in the long run

 

that has nothing to do with health issues

 

it has to do with running a thought-full company.

[paulraphael]

I'm on my first week with a vitamix 5200 (refurb) and am mostly impressed with it.

 

Any discussion of which blender to buy should address the user interface. Different controls and readouts appeal to different dispositions. For me the choice was easy—I like simple, manual controls, like the VM's on-switch and speed knob. Digital control panels and program modes like the Blendtec's make me want to strangle someone. The performance differences between these machines are minute compared compared with this basic industrial design rift.

 

I also felt that for the kinds of purees I make, a design that incorporates a tamper is the best idea. If you're in it mostly for smoothies and drinks you might come to different conclusions.

 

My blender has the black flake issue. If it persists after a couple of weeks I'll call the company. My concern is purely about whatever engineering mishap led to this. If teflon is flaking off its substrate, is this going to impair the function of a seal or a bushing over the long haul? Worse comes to worse they won't have a satisfactory answer and will send me a new jug.

 

Overall I'm quite happy with the machine. It seems expensive for what it is (I've owned 3 or 4 commercial bar mixers over the last several years, as a reference). I'm guessing the motors in these things are expensive. And to a lesser degree the blade assemblies. The other parts seem quite basic, without anything in the way of expensive looking materials or manufacturing. I'm definitely giving it the benefit of the doubt. I know these things stand up to years of abuse at restaurants (where they do break a lot, but are usually fixable) and to decades of use at home.

 

No expectations of it changing my life. But I like the idea of smooth purees without straining, and expect to have an easier time making almond flour and oat flour. Making nut butters should be pretty nice. And I'm really hoping it will work as a quasi-homogenizer for ice cream mix. That's going to be my first serious experiment.

[scubadoo97]

Lucky to not have the black flake issue with mine but I also like the simplicity of the VM and the well designed tamper over other machines.

[paulraphael]

One other subject I think we ought to address—the bioavailability myth. Some communities-of-truth on the internet actually believe that only they, with their $400 blenders, are getting all the nutrition from their food.

 

Not surprisingly, there isn't a shred of scientific evidence supporting this. The blender manufacturers can't even produce any.

Here's a pretty good article on the topic. Some scientists were asked their opinions (all they could offer, since there's essentially zero research):

 

"Oh please. That’s what teeth are for," says one.

 

"If we needed those kinds of blades we would have those in our digestive system," says another.

 

There are lots of other reasons to have a decent blender. But please don't torment your vita-mixless friends with fears of malnutrition.

[weedy]

I'd personally rather not eat teflon.

it's not proven "harmless". which should be the benchmark; not whether it's proved to be harmFUL

 

 

FWIW I am thus far very happy with the Oster Versa 1400, which also,by the way, can function in straight ahead variable speed

 

my only gripe is that I wish the pitcher were dishwasher safe

[paulraphael]

Well, it's impossible to prove something harmless. You can only site reams of research that fail to show harm. That's just the nature of science.

 

The reason teflon's believed to be harmless is that it's completely inert with regards to any known tissue or fluid in the human body. This is one reason it's used in artificial joints and heart valves.

 

We have much less evidence that losing teflon is harmless to the blender itself.

 

On another note, I'd hesitate to put a blender pitcher in the dishwasher even if the manufacturer said it was ok. All these high powered blenders have some kind of ball bearing, with physical seals to try to keep the lubricant in and the food out. I don't like the idea of subjecting to them to jets of near-boiling water and caustic detergent.

Edited September 13, 2015 by paulraphael (log)

[weedy]

I understand, but OTOH, I'd be surprised if regulations didn't require restaurants to 170F dishwasher their blender jars

[paulraphael]

Not all restaurants even have a dishwasher. If you don't heat sanitize you chemical sanitize. Just dunk the jug in a sink full of sanitizer. The commercial vitamix site gets specific on the bleach solution they recommend, but lots of people probably use quaternary ammonium compounds, or whatever else they keep around for the dishes.

 

But I bet you're right that a lot of restaurant employees do throw the thing in the dishwasher. If this is their habit, it probably just takes some life off the bearings. Those are parts that get replaced on the commercial machines every so often anyhow.

Edited September 13, 2015 by paulraphael (log)

[paulraphael]

Has anyone experimented with blending herbs vs. infusing them? I just blasted several sprigs of thyme (about 4g) in 2 cups of water in the v.m.. Made a lovely, cloudy green suspension that smells pretty strongly of thyme. The flavor isn't as strong as I might expect .. and a bit more green-grassy than thyme-like, which shouldn't be too surprising. I didn't do an infusion in plain water for comparison. Just wondering if anyone's found utility for this.

 

I'm keeping it on the counter to see if the color and flavor change from enzymes and oxygen.

[daveb]

Yes with butter or oil.  Wanted a stupid amount of infused thyme, rosemary and garlic n EVOO .  And wanted it right now.  VMix was the easy button.  Worked well.

[paulraphael]

My thyme water turned olive drab in around a half hour, but the flavor didn't suffer in any significant way. I should do a side-by-side, comparing infusion to blending. I'll use sugar water as a solvent (it's practically as good as alcohol for dissolving phenols).

[weedy]

rapid infusion in the ISI whip isn't difficult or time consuming.

and works so much better

[slkinsey]

I'd personally rather not eat teflon.

it's not proven "harmless". which should be the benchmark; not whether it's proved to be harmFUL

 

Um.  Surgeons have been permanently implanting teflon in human bodies as part of things like replacement heart valves, stents and artificial tendons for a very, very long time.  If that's not a strong indication of its safety in the human organism I don't know what is.

[paulraphael]

So I made some nut butter (cashew) in the v.m., and surprisingly the texture is smoother than the nut butters I get at the store. It's a bit dry. Some added neutral oil would help. But there's no discernible grittiness. 

[slkinsey]

Why not add some cashew oil?

[weedy]

Um.  Surgeons have been permanently implanting teflon in human bodies as part of things like replacement heart valves, stents and artificial tendons for a very, very long time.  If that's not a strong indication of its safety in the human organism I don't know what is.

 

that's a medical non-sequitar.

they also implant titanium. But I doubt they'd suggest eating any

[paulraphael]

Pure titanium is considered inert in the body as well, so if you ate it you could expect it to pass right through.

 

There are cases of people having allergic reactions to titanium implants, but in these cases it always seems to be alloys that contain nickel (a common allergen).

 

If you're looking for something to be paranoid about in blender chemistry, it would make more sense to look at the jar material. Almost all of the "BPA-free" blenders use a polymer called Tritan. This is a proprietary and very new plastic by Eastman Chemical. Most of the safety testing has been done privately and without publication (meaning: take the manufacturer's word for it). Published studies have been mixed. Some say it leaches bad stuff.

 

I'm not personally worried about this, but recognize it could be an issue for some people, especially those making baby food, etc.. In comparison, I do not consider PTFE specks to be a health issue for anyone. You probably get more toxins from chromium ions released by the stainless steel blades.

Edited September 17, 2015 by paulraphael (log)

[weedy]

is that anything like "leeches"? 

[slkinsey]

that's a medical non-sequitar.

they also implant titanium. But I doubt they'd suggest eating any

 

Yea, no.  Anything that is inert enough to be permanently implanted in the body is inert enough to pass through the digestive system in tiny little particles with little concern.  Needless to say, there would be nothing wrong with occasionally ingesting minute particles of titanium.  In fact, they make cookware with an interior lining of titanium.

[MSRadell]

Um.  Surgeons have been permanently implanting teflon in human bodies as part of things like replacement heart valves, stents and artificial tendons for a very, very long time.  If that's not a strong indication of its safety in the human organism I don't know what is.

The problem with Teflon and fry pans is not actually the flaking off of the Teflon itself. The problem with more about some of the things it gives off if it is heated to her too high of a temperature. Also, the Teflon used in cookware is a much different type of Teflon than that used in implants.