Jacques Genin Caramels

[Kerry Beal]

if you have a superbag i will make it easier to separate the foie fat...

I just used a strainer - and not even the finest one at that.

[Sue Casey]

Are all the ingredient measurements in grams? I suspect they are but just wanted to double check

[Kerry Beal]

Are all the ingredient measurements in grams? I suspect they are but just wanted to double check

Yup.

[butterscotch]

I have to try these!

[mostlylana]

I've been playing around with these caramels. Yum, yum...

Some things I've determined are:

1) Don't take the sugar to smoking or you'll end up with a cooked sugar tasting caramel. I bring mine to about 320F and get a nice rich flavour that way.

2) Cook on lower heat for a longer time for a more developed Maillard reaction and better flavour.

3) To avoid using too much lecithin (don't like the flavour!) - try whisking like crazy when adding the cream and butter. Also, be sure it never comes off the boil when adding them. I add them both in several additions to be sure of this. I found this old topic on caramels and 'Serj' gave the French Pastry School recipe for caramels. I thought it looked awfully familiar so got out my calculator. It's almost the exact recipe that Nic Lam (sp?) gave except it has 600g. of butter instead of 700g. and it has less lecithin. Also, the method is different. Check it out (about halfway down the page):

Also, I have a question... Why do you think Jacques Genin doesn't offer his caramels dipped in chocolate? He does do both caramels and chocolates. I'm wondering if the high butter content doesn't allow the chocolate to stick?? I'm going to try dipping some today to see how it works out. I just find it odd that he's doesn't do this. There must be a reason...

[RichardJones]

Mostlylana - interesting to read your observations.

1. I think this is a fair point but I reckon you can go darker than 320F (=160C). At Schneich's patisserie, for example, they aim for c.180C (=356F) and the flavour is very good. It does depend on your batch size, though, since I think it is easier to get a larger batch hotter without danger of the flavour impairing.

2. A lot of people note that the longer the cooking time the better flavour but I don't think this is a Maillard reaction - it's simple caramelization since there is no protein?

As for dipping these caramels - I think it would be overkill. Genin's caramels have a beautiful texture and flavour all to their own. What would be added by dipping them in chocolate? He also does a fine Paris-Brest, but he doesn't dip that in chocolate either.

I agree, the greasy surface might make straight dipping tricky but technique always has answer to any problem posed...nothing is impossible!

[mostlylana]

2. A lot of people note that the longer the cooking time the better flavour but I don't think this is a Maillard reaction - it's simple caramelization since there is no protein?

...woops, I meant after the cream is added. I believe Schneich mentioned this as well.

Interesting point about the batch size in regards to temperature affecting flavour. I cut the recipe by 4 so my batch size was small. I was doing experiments so didn't want to do full batches each time. I'll take note when I do a full batch. Thanks.

I'll tell you why I want to dip in chocolate. I hate wrapping caramels! Well, I also like the presentation of chocolate dipped caramels in a box. I can definitely see your point of these delicious caramels not needing it though. I dipped in milk and dark today (didn't seem to need a foot - that's good!). I'll post with the results tomorrow.

[RichardJones]

I agree about wrapping. What a pain that is. Here's a good take on the wrapping side: http://mlaiskonis.typepad.com/workbook/2009/09/mou.html

[mostlylana]

Well, dipping the caramels in chocolate turned out OK but I would do 2 things differently:

1) Put on a foot. Not because it needed it for dipping, but for added protection from seeping or leaking. I noticed a few looked 'greasy' on the bottom and I could see coverage wasn't perfect on those ones. I might even bottom both sides before cutting.

2) I made the batch I dipped on the firm side. I would leave the caramel a little softer next time. I'm thinking (but not completely sure...??) that the chocolate would stick better. The caramel I made was not that greasy to the touch but it was shiny and glassy. When I bit the chocolate covered caramel, the chocolate fell off the sides in sheets. If anyone has a working solution to this issue, I would love to hear it.

I prefered the flavour of the dark chocolate - but both the milk and dark were good. The caramel flavour came through loud and clear. I was concerned that the chocolate would detract, but it didn't. I like them! Just need to clear up a few issues...

[E.T.]

When I bit the chocolate covered caramel, the chocolate fell off the sides in sheets. If anyone has a working solution to this issue, I would love to hear it.

Maybe Kerry's solution for getting chocolate to stick to toffee/buttercrunch (by dusting with cocoa powder before bottoming) would work here too?

[mostlylana]

Hmmmm... interesting solution E.T. I'll have to give that a try. I'll post with my results. My concern would be getting the grit of the cocoa powder in my dipping chocolate (I use a Mol d'Art melter). I wonder if this is a concern?

And Richard, I checked out your link. How cool is that?! However, I don't know if it would be any less tedious!

It seems to me that wrapped caramels don't have that high end appeal. I've been trying to think outside the box in terms of presentation but haven't come up with anything yet... I guess Genin's solution of wrapped caramels, bagged in a nice box - is about as classy as it gets for caramels that aren't dipped.

[Kerry Beal]

I've never noticed any gritty sensation from the cocoa on the buttercrunch. Might be worth a try.

I recall dipping these caramels did result in more leakers than my other caramels.

[gap]

It seems to me that wrapped caramels don't have that high end appeal.

[/quote

For what it's worth, Genin caramels have very high end appeal as just wrapped caramels. But I take your point that may not be the same in your market as it is in Genin's. Genin does do seperate chocolates as well, but chooses to leave his caramels unenrobed

[psantucc]

I've managed to make a batch of these and found them excellent. I'd like to have a go at a mango version this weekeded; I've got two kinds of Mango puree ready to go.

I haven't found anywhere in this thread the method and proportion for putting in fruit. Is it as simple as adding puree and stirring after the boil and before pour?

Thanks-

Pat

[Kerry Beal]

I added the puree when the mixture reached 120º C then took it to 123º C.

[psantucc]

I added the puree when the mixture reached 120º C then took it to 123º C.

Thanks for the tip, as always, Kerry. It got me started.

Sadly, not finished. I probably need some remedial training. What I ended up with is caramel, but feels greasy (unlike the unfruited batch I previously made) and has very little Mango flavour. I have some guesses.

1. I've made my caramel too dark. I'm new to dry caramel; I don't know the earliest point at which I can add other ingredients and still have a caramel. I'm confident I'll need to stop early if these are ever going to look like this:

A photo of Genin's Mango-Passionfruit

I think that waiting for no crystals to be visible is cooking the caramel too hard. Is it safe to stop as soon as the mixture feels fluid and goes translucent, rather than pasty opaque?

For that matter, is the long cook time with the dairy ingredients going to cause a darkening problem? That photo is quite light in color.

2. I've probably got the wrong Mango ingredient. I used this:

Goya Mango Pulp

It's watery in texture, more like a juice than I thought it would be. When I added it the boiling stopped and much of the solids hit the bottom and started to scorch - some stayed there when I poured.

I expect puree to be thicker; what do those of you who use fruit use? I'm SICOLY & Boiron are out of my range at the moment, but I can blend frozen or canned Mango - there are some canned Indian brands in 5-7% syrup that look promising.

3. I'm not sure how much fruit ingredient to use. I did some rough calculations based on the French language recipe posted earlier in this thread, and came up with 555g fruit for a 500g sugar batch. Does that sound reasonable? I actually used only 397g (an entire package, and all I had to hand).

4. I added the Mango at room temperature. That's usually wrong, and I do it often anyway - should I have brought it up close to 100 C first?

Thanks for any answers-

Pat

[xxchef]

last trials with nicks recipe yesterday, i think we NAILED IT. i think iam safe to say now that we DID a genin clone (or at least very close) ;-)

[snip]

1000 Sugar

150 Glucose

140 Liquid Sorbitol

700 Beurre demi sel

12 Lecithin

1000 Cream 35%

4 Bicarbonate

30 vanilla extract

I've been making caramels for a long time (20 years??!) and know that Genin Caramels are fantastic BUT I'm wondering if there isn't a way to achieve similar style caramels with more pedestrian ingredients.

I use: sugar, cream, butter, corn syrup, salt and vanilla. These ingredients look simple and benign on my labels (please don't get me started on the whole GMO/high fructose corn syrup debates!). I KNOW that Glucose and Sorbitol are not too dissimilar from plain old corn syrup (well, sorbitol is an FDA regulated ingredient with laxative warnings required with usage over a certain rate but...). I KNOW lecithin is a naturally occurring in many food items and that there is nothing particularly scary about good old sodium bicarbonate (which technically doesn't even have to be included in the ingredient list, at least in the USA, as it is less than 1% of the end product by weight) but I like to keep things simple and easy.

I'm happy with my caramels now but wouldn't mind having an alternative "Genin-style" variety or two to offer and was thinking that, perhaps, there were some ingredient ratio tweaks or methodology tricks that would get me at least most of the way there without the "funny" ingredients??

Any thoughts?

[mostlylana]

I made the Genin caramels with the ingredients stated a few times. I noticed that the texture was... separated?? It's hard to describe. They weren't grainy but they weren't smooth. I made the last batch omitting the sorbitol and used honey in it's place. Both sorbitol and honey are humectants so I figured I would get similar results. Like you, I didn't like having sorbitol on the ingredients list. I use organic ingredients and sorbitol just didn't fit. The caramels turned out great and that odd separated texture was gone. I preferred the texture with honey. I don't think you can get away with removing the lecithin with that much butter in the caramels - unless you come up with another emulsifier. I also wouldn't remove the bicarb. I'm not completely sure what it does but it seems to have some sort of emulsifying properties in this caramel - or perhaps it adds some lightness??

[xxchef]

Honey is an inspired idea. Not only is it a good chemical replacement for the sorbitol but an excellent flavor paring for any fruited caramel too. Using white tupelo honey might also get the anti-crystallization properties the glucose helps with and might permit replacing some of it too (that would require some more serious research/experimentation). Did you have any trouble with over-sweet taste? Sorbitol is 60% as sweet as sugar while honey is up to 50% sweeter than sugar.

I agree that with so much butter an emulsifier is probably needed so it doesn't completely break or at least feel/taste greasy. I have this crazy idea about using an immersion blender to try and achieve a mechanical emulsion. It would have to be while it was still cooking which would be crazy dangerous. All I need is a fire suit and to borrow a blender (sure as heck not going to use mine!!). Maybe lecithin isn't so bad after all.

Same with the soda. I'm sure it helps leaven the slightly acidic mixture a bit and probably helps the texture, kind of like it does in peanut brittle and it's not an onerous ingredient that my customers would likely balk at.

[mostlylana]

I have this crazy idea about using an immersion blender to try and achieve a mechanical emulsion. It would have to be while it was still cooking which would be crazy dangerous. All I need is a fire suit and to borrow a blender (sure as heck not going to use mine!!). Maybe lecithin isn't so bad after all.

Too funny! I had the same idea! I thought I could use my cheap immersion blender and then thought of all that melted plastic in the caramel. Yum...

What I have been doing is using 4g. of lecithin and whisking like crazy as I explained in an earlier post. Make sure when you add the cream and especially the butter that it doesn't come off the boil and whisk, whisk, whisk.

Yes, I did notice a sweeter result with the honey - but negligible. I, too, was considering tupelo or acacia honeys because of their high fructose content. They would absolutely help with preventing crystallization. Another thought would be to make some invert sugar and use that rather than honey (invert sugar is basically 'fake' honey). Check out this link (see the recipe): http://chocolatenews.org/2010/05/12/the-ultimate-salted-caramel-recipe/

Another thought... If you're using corn syrup rather than glucose - it has fructose in it. Perhaps you can get away with just corn syrup. Add up the glucose and sorbitol quantities and add that amount of corn syrup. It's still a small quantity compared to most caramel recipes. The butter will offset any toughness that might result from that small amount of corn syrup. If you do try it, please post your results.

I'm going to continue playing around with the recipe but have to wait until I get a few things off my plate first.

Good luck!

[lironp]

Just got back from a trip to Paris, and of course I visited Jacques Genin's store (as well as about 20 other chocolate stores in Paris). His were some of the best chocolates I ate there, and after hearing so much about the caramels, of course I bought a bunch... Because of the big build up, I was sure they would be disappointing (I can't really say I'm crazy about caramels), but the mango-passion fruit ones were absolutely amazing, one of the best things I've ever tasted... His PDFs were also very good, they had a nice soft texture

[prospectbake]

I make caramels at work using an immersion blender (no sorbitol), but only bring it to 240 F, I'm wondering why there's such a temperature variation for very similar caramels.

[SusanV.]

I'd love to know this, too.

[mostlylana]

I make caramels at work using an immersion blender (no sorbitol), but only bring it to 240 F, I'm wondering why there's such a temperature variation for very similar caramels.

First of all - wow, you use an immersion blender! Can you describe your technique of such a seemingly dangerous feat?! I think this would work like a charm for emulsification if it didn't cause 3rd degree burns. It would work especially well for these Jacques Genin caramels.

What I've learned about temperature variation is the obvious - altitude. But also, if you bring your caramels to temperature slowly, it seems that you need to bring them to a lower temp. to get the same result as when you bring them to temp. quickly. I wish I knew the science behind this - but I don't have a clue.

[prospectbake]

Sure! I must make sure the pot is fairly large, and use an oven mit. Nothing has happened so far, and I'm not nervous about getting burned. But, I would never use the blender if I had to take it much hotter, and certainly not over 300 F as these caramels seem to call for, I'm pretty sure that would melt it..