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Jstern35

The Bread Topic (2009 – 2014)

581 posts in this topic

Banneton001_zps3e47d815.jpg

Thank you.

This is a banneton or brotform. It's a cane basket that you put the bread in for it's second rising. I floured it heavily.

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Here's an alternative to bannetons, if one is also comfortable sewing and woodworking. I haven't seen anything like it before, though my wife showed me a bread proofing "hammock" from the seventies that gave me the idea. I was never happy with how bannetons handled, and I could never find the shape I wanted. Working with wet doughs, I need the support that rigid sides offer, over just using a linen cloth as more serious bakers might do.

The linen cloth is sewn from rack material at a fabric store, Easier than ordering online, one knows what one gets, and one can get the size right. I have access to a sewing machine. It is worth learning how to make rudimentary hems like this.

The wooden frames are made from 1" x 4" wood, which is 3/4" x 3 1/2" actual. These were the prototypes; I may make more using finger joints, but only to get joinery practice. The construction shown is fine for breadmaking. Note the rotation of the end pieces; one doesn't want to drill into end grain. Think of wood fibers like a bundle of spaghetti, and one understands the relative strengths in different directions. The screw heads are inset using a separate conical bit, to keep the screws from scratching other surfaces. The frames were given a quick sanding after assembly, and left unfinished. One actually wants the wood to breath.

Linen is nonstick without flouring. With this approach, one can hang the cloth afterwards to dry, and wash it easily if desired.

What I like best about this approach is being able to lift off the frame, then roll the loaf off the linen cloth with a minimum of jostling. For very wet doughs, the less handling the better.

Just an idea...


Per la strada incontro un passero che disse "Fratello cane, perche sei cosi triste?"

Ripose il cane: "Ho fame e non ho nulla da mangiare."

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Too complicated for me! I just take an oblong wicker bread basket that one serves bread in at the table and line it with a linen dish towel. I have 2 baskets and 2 linen towels as I make at least 2 loaves each time I bake. Sometimes I make 3 loaves so I take a round bowl lined with a linen dish towel and make the third loaf round. I have no problem gently rolling the raised dough onto my cornmeal covered pizza peel where I slash the dough before gently sliding it onto the pizza stone in my oven. Works every time.

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Too complicated for me!

Actually, hemming the linen and making the frames is about the same amount of effort as making one batch of bread, if one is an activity omnivore. I'd told some people sit on the couch sometimes and watch TV. I would find that morbidly depressing, while the same half hour spend making something sounds like fun.

In any case, I have more of a problem than some bakers with the dough wanting to spread out. This was a solution to enforcing a 3 1/2" width constraint, while the loaves proof. As the photo shows, they manage to spread anyways with oven spring. The above loaves are 6" wide (at 75% hydration), and would have been even wider...

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Per la strada incontro un passero che disse "Fratello cane, perche sei cosi triste?"

Ripose il cane: "Ho fame e non ho nulla da mangiare."

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attachicon.gifcouche.jpg

Here's an alternative to bannetons, if one is also comfortable sewing and woodworking. I haven't seen anything like it before, though my wife showed me a bread proofing "hammock" from the seventies that gave me the idea. I was never happy with how bannetons handled, and I could never find the shape I wanted. Working with wet doughs, I need the support that rigid sides offer, over just using a linen cloth as more serious bakers might do.

The linen cloth is sewn from rack material at a fabric store, Easier than ordering online, one knows what one gets, and one can get the size right. I have access to a sewing machine. It is worth learning how to make rudimentary hems like this.

The wooden frames are made from 1" x 4" wood, which is 3/4" x 3 1/2" actual. These were the prototypes; I may make more using finger joints, but only to get joinery practice. The construction shown is fine for breadmaking. Note the rotation of the end pieces; one doesn't want to drill into end grain. Think of wood fibers like a bundle of spaghetti, and one understands the relative strengths in different directions. The screw heads are inset using a separate conical bit, to keep the screws from scratching other surfaces. The frames were given a quick sanding after assembly, and left unfinished. One actually wants the wood to breath.

Linen is nonstick without flouring. With this approach, one can hang the cloth afterwards to dry, and wash it easily if desired.

What I like best about this approach is being able to lift off the frame, then roll the loaf off the linen cloth with a minimum of jostling. For very wet doughs, the less handling the better.

Just an idea...

Love it! I'm forever propping things on both sides of the linen coche to try for the same effect. Wonder what I've got around here that is a rectangular box with no bottom.

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My method is an alternative to society donors or using a bannoten. I say "Hurrah!" for diversity.

I'm 78 years old, have 2 part time jobs, work out at the gym 3 days a week, have a boyfriend, sail my 26' sailboat regularly, take care of my garden, cook almost all my own meals, rarely watch TV and am going to take a class on cheese-making next week. I will be making an apron tomorrow in my sewing machine. I also volunteer selling at the symphony shop every other week. I don't have a workshop in my garage to make a wooden device when a bread basket works fine for me. In-between times I do the family thing... (9 grandkids).


Edited by Isabelle Prescott (log)
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I have a loaf of sandwich bread doing it's second rise for lunches this week. It's just KAF white whole wheat and KAF bread flour. Joining it in the oven will be a banana cake to use up some of the ones I had frozen in the past. Thank goodness it is cool enough here to bake.


Nothing is better than frying in lard.

Nothing.  Do not quote me on this.

 

Linda Ellerbee

Take Big Bites

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An unsophistcated loaf of white sandwich bread but nothing brings a wider smile to my granddaughter's face!

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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My method is an alternative to society donors or using a bannoten. I say "Hurrah!" for diversity.

I'm 78 years old, have 2 part time jobs, work out at the gym 3 days a week, have a boyfriend, sail my 26' sailboat regularly, take care of my garden, cook almost all my own meals, rarely watch TV and am going to take a class on cheese-making next week. I will be making an apron tomorrow in my sewing machine. I also volunteer selling at the symphony shop every other week. I don't have a workshop in my garage to make a wooden device when a bread basket works fine for me. In-between times I do the family thing... (9 grandkids).

You would be one hard to keep up with. Congrats. :)

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And I want a table for two and a chicken for eight o'clock.

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Anna, that loaf brought a smile to my face too. Beautiful.

I made a double batch of dough last Thursday. Used a little to make a pizza and the rest went into the fridge for a four day cold fermentation.

Pulled the dough out of the fridge early this morning, before the day started to warm up.

August%2012th%2C%202013%2010-L.jpg

Three large baguettes , out of the oven before 10:30 AM.

August%2012th%2C%202013%206-L.jpg

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Anna, that loaf brought a smile to my face too. Beautiful.

I made a double batch of dough last Thursday. Used a little to make a pizza and the rest went into the fridge for a four day cold fermentation.

Pulled the dough out of the fridge early this morning, before the day started to warm up.

August%2012th,%202013%2010-L.jpg

Three large baguettes , out of the oven before 10:30 AM.

August%2012th,%202013%206-L.jpg

Now that's bread! BEAUTIFUL.


Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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Thank you lochaven. :biggrin: Just tryin' to keep breathing and enjoy living. :wink:

My method is an alternative to society donors or using a bannoten. I say "Hurrah!" for diversity.

I'm 78 years old, have 2 part time jobs, work out at the gym 3 days a week, have a boyfriend, sail my 26' sailboat regularly, take care of my garden, cook almost all my own meals, rarely watch TV and am going to take a class on cheese-making next week. I will be making an apron tomorrow in my sewing machine. I also volunteer selling at the symphony shop every other week. I don't have a workshop in my garage to make a wooden device when a bread basket works fine for me. In-between times I do the family thing... (9 grandkids).

You would be one hard to keep up with. Congrats. :)

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Anna, that loaf brought a smile to my face too. Beautiful.

I made a double batch of dough last Thursday. Used a little to make a pizza and the rest went into the fridge for a four day cold fermentation.

Pulled the dough out of the fridge early this morning, before the day started to warm up.

August%2012th,%202013%2010-L.jpg

Three large baguettes , out of the oven before 10:30 AM.

August%2012th,%202013%206-L.jpg

Oh wow! Would you just look at that crumb! Be still, my heart.

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Beautiful picture!!! I'm impressed with it and the follwing is not meant in any way as a criticism of you or anyone else posting on this bread forum.

I have been wondering for a while now. How did it come to be so important to have lots of air space and little actual bread when we bake at home? Is there nutrition in the air spaces? Or are we breadmakers trying to impress other bakers with our knowledge of how our bread should look?

In my everyday, humdrum life I need a certain amount of actual food to chew on and if I don't get this "chewing" in a piece of toast or sandwich I find myself wanting to eat stuff like crunchy, salty snacks. My home made sourdough bread can look all holey if I so choose to make it that way but when I made a sandwich I like a little more substance.

This is a serious question for me. Am I the only who feels this way? I appreciate all comments. pro or con. Not trying to be a smart-a** here! Thanks for all replies. I love eGullet in all its aspects.

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Beautiful picture!!! I'm impressed with it and the follwing is not meant in any way as a criticism of you or anyone else posting on this bread forum.

I have been wondering for a while now. How did it come to be so important to have lots of air space and little actual bread when we bake at home? Is there nutrition in the air spaces? Or are we breadmakers trying to impress other bakers with our knowledge of how our bread should look?

In my everyday, humdrum life I need a certain amount of actual food to chew on and if I don't get this "chewing" in a piece of toast or sandwich I find myself wanting to eat stuff like crunchy, salty snacks. My home made sourdough bread can look all holey if I so choose to make it that way but when I made a sandwich I like a little more substance.

This is a serious question for me. Am I the only who feels this way? I appreciate all comments. pro or con. Not trying to be a smart-a** here! Thanks for all replies. I love eGullet in all its aspects.

I think a lot of it has to do with what you grow up with. For example, I grew up in Tuscany, where 'ordinary bread' has an open, chewy structure, hard crust, and absolutely no salt or sugar. When my family moved back to the US, it was all Arnold's whole wheat bread, all the time: compact, soft, compressible, and SWEET. I found it jarring at every level, just horribly, horribly wrong, because it isn't unusual for kids to be conservative about food. I have to admit that I never took to US supermarket bread, or soft sandwich loaves in general.


Michaela, aka "Mjx"
Manager, eG Forums
mscioscia@egstaff.org

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Beautiful picture!!! I'm impressed with it and the follwing is not meant in any way as a criticism of you or anyone else posting on this bread forum.

I have been wondering for a while now. How did it come to be so important to have lots of air space and little actual bread when we bake at home? Is there nutrition in the air spaces? Or are we breadmakers trying to impress other bakers with our knowledge of how our bread should look?

In my everyday, humdrum life I need a certain amount of actual food to chew on and if I don't get this "chewing" in a piece of toast or sandwich I find myself wanting to eat stuff like crunchy, salty snacks. My home made sourdough bread can look all holey if I so choose to make it that way but when I made a sandwich I like a little more substance.

This is a serious question for me. Am I the only who feels this way? I appreciate all comments. pro or con. Not trying to be a smart-a** here! Thanks for all replies. I love eGullet in all its aspects.

Personally, I would rarely consider "holey" bread to be suitable sandwich making bread. It's a bread meant to be enjoyed as is. Soft, white sandwhich bread, on the other hand, can rarely stand on its own. Two different breads serving different purposes. That's just my take.


Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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Beautiful picture!!! I'm impressed with it and the follwing is not meant in any way as a criticism of you or anyone else posting on this bread forum.

I have been wondering for a while now. How did it come to be so important to have lots of air space and little actual bread when we bake at home? Is there nutrition in the air spaces? Or are we breadmakers trying to impress other bakers with our knowledge of how our bread should look?

In my everyday, humdrum life I need a certain amount of actual food to chew on and if I don't get this "chewing" in a piece of toast or sandwich I find myself wanting to eat stuff like crunchy, salty snacks. My home made sourdough bread can look all holey if I so choose to make it that way but when I made a sandwich I like a little more substance.

This is a serious question for me. Am I the only who feels this way? I appreciate all comments. pro or con. Not trying to be a smart-a** here! Thanks for all replies. I love eGullet in all its aspects.

I'm with you, and I think MJX has it exactly on the nose - it depends on what we grew up with and how we enjoy our bread. I grew up with dense pumpernickel, sourdough, whole-wheat, spelt, and kamut loaves and so when I'm confronted with an airy-fairy french loaf my first thought is the uncharitable "it's too white!" and the second "it's too light!" I've come around to liking the airy breads to mop up sauces or soups, but I still feel that they're basically whiffle breads and what I crave, bake and offer is denser and heavier.


Elizabeth Campbell, baking 10,000 feet up at 1° South latitude.

My eG Food Blog (2011)My eG Foodblog (2012)

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I think we are just talking about two different types of bread. Some breads are better for sandwiches, like that beautiful loaf Anna posted yesterday. No right or wrong or better than. Just depends on personal preference.

Like MJK, I prefer a bread with more texture, stronger crust, open and chewy , rather than the softer texture of a traditional white/sandwich loaf. I don't like sweet bread so I never add sugar. Not unless I'm making a sweet dough for something like cinnamon buns. But I do add salt.

Homemade%20Soughdough%20Toast%20June%201

Also, the "holey" bread makes great toast. All those holes capture the butter, honey or jam.

~Ann

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Beautiful picture!!! I'm impressed with it and the follwing is not meant in any way as a criticism of you or anyone else posting on this bread forum.

I have been wondering for a while now. How did it come to be so important to have lots of air space and little actual bread when we bake at home? Is there nutrition in the air spaces? Or are we breadmakers trying to impress other bakers with our knowledge of how our bread should look?

In my everyday, humdrum life I need a certain amount of actual food to chew on and if I don't get this "chewing" in a piece of toast or sandwich I find myself wanting to eat stuff like crunchy, salty snacks. My home made sourdough bread can look all holey if I so choose to make it that way but when I made a sandwich I like a little more substance.

This is a serious question for me. Am I the only who feels this way? I appreciate all comments. pro or con. Not trying to be a smart-a** here! Thanks for all replies. I love eGullet in all its aspects.

IMHO it's just a matter of two different kinds of breads, used for different purposes. Upstream I posted two different breads I'd made. One, baguette, is meant to have the slack dough/open crumb. It's good for lots of different things, but the best way to use it in a sandwich is by cutting it lengthwise to have crust on both sides. On the other hand, the 10-grain, tight crumbed loaf is perfect for sandwiches; but not so great for crostini.

Both types of bread have their places. Not to mention the flatbreads, pitas, tortillas, etc., etc. I, personally, have always found getting a "good" crum on a baguette to be a bit more challenging that the tight crumb on a sandwich loaf - maybe that's why we see pictures of the "open" crumb more often - happily having had a success.

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New York deli rye (Rose Levy Beranbaum).

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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Another Rose Levy Beranbaum bread. This is the semolina torpedo. The recipe is great for a small family as it makes just one 3/4 lb loaf.

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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