UK GOOD FOOD GUIDE 2003

[Basildog]

When they have a chance, could members with access to the review of Basildog's restaurant please post it?

Well , if you insist.....

Margot's is a cheerful, welcoming little place that puts on a happy face:"even the loo is shared by males and females," observed one reporter.Coiled lamps dangle from the ceiling, and there are framed pictures of the chef on the two toned walls.This is just up the street from the harbour, so seafood is a big player on the menu.Fish soup had real depth of flavour,whilst spot on timing is a feature of dishes such as mussels with ginger,coriander and coconut milk, and spanking fresh fillet of turbot coated in sesame seeds with asparagus and a skilfully made chive butter sauce.

The kitchen also pleases carnivores and vegetarians with a warm salad of black pudding and bacon topped with a poached egg, rack of lamb on spring onion mash with anotherr good sauce(this time red wine and rosemary), and a perfectly textured lemon tart or saffron poached pears with shortbread.The short wine list is a well chosen, reasonally priced slate with five house selections from £9.95 a bottle (£3.25 a glass)

Cooking 3

The Good Food Guide 2003

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By the way, there is only 1 painting of me, and that hangs in the loo most of the time

[Matthew Grant]

OK we'll see. I'm going to try and book a table there for 8pm on January 7th for my 20th wedding anniversary. I might even ask my wife to join me. I'll report back on how I get along.

Hit that dial button at 08:59!

[Lord Michael Lewis]

A mistake of this magnitude calls into question the guide's credibility as far as I'm concerned.

Does the guide actually have any credibilty? For many, what was once a consumer guide has become "My favourite restaurants" by Jim Ainsworth. A less than objective editor who is alarmingly keen to chum up with media chefs.

[Jinmyo]

LML, I haven't seen you around lately. Nice to see you.

[Vanessa]

A mistake of this magnitude calls into question the guide's credibility as far as I'm concerned.

Does the guide actually have any credibilty? For many, what was once a consumer guide has become "My favourite restaurants" by Jim Ainsworth. A less than objective editor who is alarmingly keen to chum up with media chefs.

LML:

Objectively: there is an on-going e-gullet relationship with Basildog. Some Members of e-gullet have even frequented the restaurant of Basildog. When the GFG review of Basildog's restaurant appeared, it was noted by Members of e-gullet (who have no known link with GFG) as a very appropriate review of Basildog's restaurant.

This gives a certain positive impression of GFG.

LML: in other words, much as I respect your opinions of, say Ferran Adria, I am concerned that a certain polemic takes over from reality. I don't actually see why a 'consumer guide' (complete objectivity is utterly impossible unless you are God) and 'my favourite restaurants by Jim Ainsworth' are a contradiction in terms.

Personally, I wouldn't dream of going to a GR restaurant and for that reasson would ignore the 10/10 rating given by GFG. But I don't see that as a reason for discrediting GFG.

v

[Basildog]

The GFG is not perfect, but in my opinion, gets it right more times than wrong.

Past reviews i have had from the GFG have been rehashed old reviews, which pissed me off, because it is sold as reseached from scratch each year. and i KNOW thats not true in my case

whats the alternative LML? and welcome back (parole already?)

[Lord Michael Lewis]

I don't actually see why a 'consumer guide' (complete objectivity is utterly impossible unless you are God) and 'my favourite restaurants by Jim Ainsworth' are a contradiction in terms.

If you don't see the contradiction then there'll be no explaining it to you.

Furthermore, God (the Biblical one) is not typically thought of as being objective.

[Vanessa]

Furthermore, God (the Biblical one) is not typically thought of as being objective.

yeah, I know (and agree) - but you know what I mean.

What I'm getting at is that I don't think there is such a thing as a guide which you can follow 100%. You just have to use your judgement - without being excessively judgemental.

v

[Lord Michael Lewis]

What I'm getting at is that I don't think there is such a thing as a guide which you can follow 100%.  You just have to use your judgement - without being excessively judgemental.

v

Quite, but the Good Food Guide is not what it once was, and the reason for this is that the current editor spends far too much time being chummy with media chefs and not enough time berating them for taking the piss out of their clients.

[Vanessa]

What I'm getting at is that I don't think there is such a thing as a guide which you can follow 100%.  You just have to use your judgement - without being excessively judgemental.

v

Quite, but the Good Food Guide is not what it once was, and the reason for this is that the current editor spends far too much time being chummy with media chefs and not enough time berating them for taking the piss out of their clients.

When? Are you talking about Tom Jaine? (great guy, but never could work out what food he liked) Raymond Postgate?

Times change. Editors change. We can't like them all.

I have a nasty feeling this all boils down to a positive review about the Fat Duck. (Was there one? I didn't notice).

v

[Andy Lynes]

Vanessa - Fat Duck gets 8 out of 10, one of only 8 restaurants in the guide to do so. That must put it in the top 1%.

If LML doesn't mind me saying, I think you are safe to take his comments on GFG at face value. I have heard a story recently concerning one of the top rated restaurants in the guide which throws some doubt on the veracity of the quote from The Independent which says "The most literate, fiercely independent and nationally even-handed of restaurant guides". I am not in a position to elaborate further, and it is certainly nothing untoward as such i.e no money changing hands, but did make me go "Hmmmm" and raise an eyebrow in Roger Moore type way (it has nothing to do with either Fat Duck or Gordon Ramsay BTW).

I have found the marking in this years guide quite perplexing, with what appear to be many anomolies between London and the rest of the country in particular. To sum up, it appears easier for a restaurant to score highly if it is outside London than if it is in the capital. Jim Ainsworth partly addresses this issue in his introduction,stating that "it is little wonder that reporters disagree when comparing the scores of restaurants. Some of you write to sat that A is better than B while C shouldn't be in the guide" and that "there are 166 million possible three-way comparisions". Well, I think that is hiding behind numbers to a certain extent. If the stated criteria is applied consistantly, and all restaurants are inspected by GFG staff, there is no excuse for such anomlies to arise. (Of course, this is simply my opinion of the markings allocated to the restaurants I happen to have visited).

[Paul Bell]

I have found the good food guide to be the most useful guide, but this is possibly due to the fact that it provides more information, a half page to a page for a review instead of a few lines.

I am generally unconvinced by the scores at the lower end. Anything five and above has generally been very good, four and below has varied wildly some very good, some not. Possibly these restaurants are more difficult to distinguish. For some reason I have had particular difficulties with restaurants scoring four, which often seem no better than restaurants with lower scores but with more pretensions. Riva gets a 3, but Sonny's round the corner gets a 4 (and was rubbish when we went there a couple of weeks ago). For that matter Riva gets a 3 as does Cecconis, more different Italain restaurants you possibly could not get in the same city, in terms of style, cooking etc. Both are better than the River Cafe though

The Angelsea Arms is in the main section and the Havelock remains resolutely in the round up section. I find then difficult to tell apart (service is better in the Havelock).

But as I am no longer certain what my point is I am going to shut up now.

Paul

[Simon Majumdar]

What I'm getting at is that I don't think there is such a thing as a guide which you can follow 100%.  You just have to use your judgement - without being excessively judgemental.

v

Quite, but the Good Food Guide is not what it once was, and the reason for this is that the current editor spends far too much time being chummy with media chefs and not enough time berating them for taking the piss out of their clients.

I couldn't agree more

The GFG has become an a bit of a joke hasn't it

The marking FWIW seems to be er, "flawed"

All guides have their flaws and limits. The GFG just seems more limited than most

S

[Lord Michael Lewis]

I have a nasty feeling this all boils down to a positive review about the Fat Duck.

I'm not interested in the Good Food Guide's opinions of top-end places; everyone knows well enough who they are and what they're doing. They recieve so much media exposure, in fact, that I can't see how this guide's opinion informs potential diners. On the other hand, the guide has the potential to be a valuable resource for the diner seeking lesser known provincial restaurants. Indeed, it is these lesser know places that make up the bulk of this publication, and it is these places to which the guide does a great disservice. I feel that Jim Ainsworth's attempts to claim a slice of gastronomic celebrity by aligning his editorial focus onto himself and his relationship with a select group of already sufficiently well known chefs does not allow the guide to function as it should in this respect. Viz Basildog's rehashed entries.

So your supposition regarding the Fat Duck is as wrong as it is inane.

[Tonyfinch]

OK,phoned the apparently faultless GR at RHR last night to make a booking for two for Jan 7th at 8pm.

The phone was answered right away but I was told I would have to wait until Dec 9th to book -I'd forgotten about their one calendar month ahead booking policy.

I asked if I would be allowed to book a table for 8pm. The lady asked how many we would be. I said two. She said in that case no, I could "probably" have a table at 7.30 or 9.30. She didn't say that I would have to give the 7.30 table back so I asked and she said yes they would need it back by 9.30. I asked how many one needed to be to get a table between 7.45 and 9. She said she didn't know and would I please ring back on the 9th.

The line then went dead but not before I thought I heard GR come racing out of the kitchen screaming like a banshee at her to get off the f.....g phone and get her arse in to the kitchen and do some real f.....g work for once.

[Basildog]

who needs the guides when we have egullet?

[Tonyfinch]

All guides have their flaws and limits.  The GFG just seems more limited than most

I have to disagree that it's worse than most. Which ones are so much better?

[Vanessa]

I've noticed that I pay little attention to the GFG with regard to London. I have other points of reference that work better and I feel instinctively that the book is not London-oriented. However the one restaurant in the Guide outside London which I have been to recently, The Punchbowl at Crosthwaite in Cumbria, has a wholly appropriate review, in my opinion.

By the way, I am completely open to substantiated criticisms of the guide's non-impartiality.

v

[Basildog]

I see that Andrew Turvil has been appointed the new editor.Hopefully that will please LML?

[Lord Michael Lewis]

I see that Andrew Turvil has been appointed the new editor.Hopefully that will please LML?

A quote by Turvil from one of WHICH's press releases:

The UK is gradually shaking off its reputation for lousy food and we have restaurants that rank as genuine world-beaters. But it's not all about the big players. The Good Food Guide has always sought fresh food prepared with care and skill, whether it is produced by a large brigade in a fancy hotel, or a husband-and-wife team working all hours in a tiny kitchen.

Doesn't sound like a bad thing, although Ainsworth will remain as 'Consultant Editor' (whatever that means).

[Basildog]

Well the 2004 Guide will be published soon, so if you are quick, you can predict this years winners and losers

I predict Ripleys to get at least 6 out of 10 for cooking

and fingers crossed we keep our 3.

[Basildog]

Well we got our window sticker in the post this morning , so we must still be in the guide!! Hurrah

It's published on the 2nd October, but we get a copy a bit earlier...i can almonst smell it

[Andy Lynes]

Its the reports on eGullet that really matter these days, although I'm sure the GFG still helps