UK Michelin Ratings for 2008

[adt]

the oikish Guardian readers are being beastly to him - how could they?

sounds like they are reading a section of the guardian they're not interested in (there's only so far you can go with fish and chip shop reviews) then complaining the content's not of interest to them. I could do the same in the sports section.

regarding the stars, I don't understand why Morgan M hasn't got one yet, would have thought it was right up their street. it may not be perfect but it's surely 1* material. perhaps it's the holloway road that isn't up their street

as for more informal pub type places, there must be hope for the Sportsman etc. with The Olive Branch in Clipsham having a star -- it's a very good food pub which, not unusually, also claims impeccable sourcing, but has fewer links to local farms (esp for vegetables), doesn't have a tasting menu like the Sportsman, and based on a recent visit is variable in standard and not really doing anything unusual. not had a chance to get the the Sportsman yet but from what I've heard, I hope they get it.

[naebody]

The wisdom of crowds is great for estimating the weight of a bull, or predicting which world leader's next for the chop. But it's terrible when judging important things like art, music and dinner. In short, seven million Barry Manilow fans can be wrong.

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Apologies for quoting myself (the internet equivalent of onanism), but the reader responses to Jay's article illustrate the above point perfectly.

While I'm here, agree The Ritz is likely to get a star for its 100th birthday. And, if they go for a democracy theme again, it would also be nice to see Jeremy Lee at the Blueprint Cafe get something to mark a decade of fending off Conran corporate lunacy to do bistro deluxe before it was invented. Doubt he will though.

[Paul Reynard]

Ravelda. Am about to book a table at Pattersons for the coming weeks but wondered if you could suggest whether to get a table in the main restaurant or in the back of the restaurant. The occasion is anniversary meal with the lady.

[SHEFF]

Wondered if anyone can answer me something.? If for example a restaurant moves to a new location (Hibiscus) , and the chef of a restaurant moves to a new building under a new owner/backer (Micheal Wignall Devonshire Arms) is there a cut of point for michelin to move their stars.

If so whats the date?

[Anne Benson]

RDB thanks for mentioning Fraiche, finally somebody does. It should have a star.

I was very disappointed with Anthony's when I ate there and I don't think it deserves a star.

[chrisp]

RDB thanks for mentioning Fraiche, finally somebody does. It should have a star.

I was very disappointed with Anthony's when I ate there and I don't think it deserves a star.

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Fraiche got en Espoir last year anyway didn't it? So I think it should get the star this year. Unless I've misunderstood the system.

[ravelda]

I believe Foliage got a rising 2 star last year as well - I have certainly had some excellent meals there this year so it will be interesting to see if it gets its second star

[chrisp]

I believe Foliage got a rising 2 star last year as well - I have certainly had some excellent meals there this year so it will be interesting to see if it gets its second star

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Yes Foliage just won my Restaurant of the Year. I had a stunning meal there, solid 2* territory.

[ravelda]

Chris Staines is a very talented chef

[BertieWooster]

Wondered if anyone can answer me something.? If for example a restaurant moves to a new location (Hibiscus) , and the chef of a restaurant moves to a new building under a new owner/backer (Micheal Wignall Devonshire Arms) is there a cut of point for michelin to move their stars.

If so whats the date?

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Pretty sure it's the restaurant rather than the chef that has the stars. So Wignall might be billed as a 'michelin-awarded chef' but he doesn't have his star at the Latymer, the Dev keeps it. Of course, a starred chef leaving will usually/often trigger a re-visit and re-appraisal, as happened when the Schwabs left Winteringham Fields. And, vice-versa, a previously awarded chef will often more easily regain a star at a new place than if they hadn't been previosly rewarded (see Gueller at the Box Tree who got a star within a few months of opening there).

SO I'm assuming Hibiscus even after the move remains a two-star, with no offical cut-off point, but the move to the bigger place would have led to some re-vsiits, and with the mixed press, might lead to a drop back to a single*.

[chrisp]

Wondered if anyone can answer me something.? If for example a restaurant moves to a new location (Hibiscus) , and the chef of a restaurant moves to a new building under a new owner/backer (Micheal Wignall Devonshire Arms) is there a cut of point for michelin to move their stars.

If so whats the date?

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Pretty sure it's the restaurant rather than the chef that has the stars. So Wignall might be billed as a 'michelin-awarded chef' but he doesn't have his star at the Latymer, the Dev keeps it. Of course, a starred chef leaving will usually/often trigger a re-visit and re-appraisal, as happened when the Schwabs left Winteringham Fields. And, vice-versa, a previously awarded chef will often more easily regain a star at a new place than if they hadn't been previosly rewarded (see Gueller at the Box Tree who got a star within a few months of opening there).

SO I'm assuming Hibiscus even after the move remains a two-star, with no offical cut-off point, but the move to the bigger place would have led to some re-vsiits, and with the mixed press, might lead to a drop back to a single*.

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Funnily enough, we had lunch at Hibiscus in Ludlow a few years ago and asked Claude Bosi the exact same question when he came out to do the rounds at the end of service. And his response was very clear - the stars belong to the chef, not the restaurant. So I assume that he's expecting to keep his two stars in Mayfair.

[BertieWooster]

Yeah, but Bosi and Hibiscus are one, he's the chef-patron, slightly different...

[JudyB]

Funnily enough, we had lunch at Hibiscus in Ludlow a few years ago and asked Claude Bosi the exact same question when he came out to do the rounds at the end of service. And his response was very clear - the stars belong to the chef, not the restaurant. So I assume that he's expecting to keep his two stars in Mayfair.

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Since some chefs have multiple restaurants, could it be that it is the named chef at a particular restaurant who has the stars?

There is also a question of the nature of the restaurant and how much that can change to retain the stars.

To take a hypothetical example, if Heston decided to abandon the Fat Duck in favour of the rumoured bistro in London, I would not expect his 3 stars to transfer automatically, although I would expect Michelin to take a look at any new restaurant he opened.

In the case of Hibiscus, I imagine that they will review Hibiscus as a serious candidate for two stars, but I can't see that a completely new venue could automatically be given two stars.

[naebody]

Didn't La Tante Claire lose a star in the year it moved from Chelsea to Marble Arch? Something about failing to maintain quality in a bigger room, if memory serves. Given that precedent, Hibiscus can't be guaranteed to keep two. (Incidentally, can anyone confirm or deny the talk about Bosi losing half his brigade in the first month of the London opening?)

Michelin obviously awards restaurants, not cooks. Otherwise, somewhere appalling like Mix in Las Vegas would be on the same three-star rating as Louis XV in Monte Carlo, given the same name is at the bottom of the menu. But it's undeniable that they tend to prefer giving new stars to proven cooks -- hence the recognition of Bernares and Arbutus last year, and this year's rumours regarding Tom's Kitchen.

[Andy Davies]

I haven't taken the time to read all of the above, but here is my prediction.

Gordon Ramsey RHR, demoted to 2

Lindsay House, demoted No star

Hibiscus - retains 2

Pied-a-terre - up to 3

Green House - up to 2

Roka - long shot - 1 star

Dorchester Grill - 1 star

Foliage - no change

Tom Aikens - no change

Ducasse- listed only - opened to late for guide

L'Autre Pied - listed only opened too late

[Andy Davies]

Didn't La Tante Claire lose a star in the year it moved from Chelsea to Marble Arch? Something about failing to maintain quality in a bigger room, if memory serves. Given that precedent, Hibiscus can't be guaranteed to keep two. (Incidentally, can anyone confirm or deny the talk about Bosi losing half his brigade in the first month of the London opening?)

Michelin obviously awards restaurants, not cooks. Otherwise, somewhere appalling like Mix in Las Vegas would be on the same three-star rating as Louis XV in Monte Carlo, given the same name is at the bottom of the menu. But it's undeniable that they tend to prefer giving new stars to proven cooks -- hence the recognition of Bernares and Arbutus last year, and this year's rumours regarding Tom's Kitchen.

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Tante Claire moved to The Berkley and dropped a star in the second or third year after the move.

Hibiscus will retain two stars. I have eaten there, and although it wasn't as good as it should be I thought that it showed enough promise of what it had to give for Michelin to stick with it. i don't think they would drop him to one after such a hugh financial committement on his part to bring his food to London.

[naebody]

Tante Claire moved to The Berkley and dropped a star in the second or third year  after the move. 

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Really? Was sure both things happened around the turn of the millennium. While I can't argue from knowledge, the New York Times seems to tally with the memory.

Oh, and since we're doing press clips, it seems lan Yau has just sold out of his only two starry locations, Hakkasan and Yauatcha. Wonder if he knows something we don't?

And finally: just back from an epic at Aikens. If that's not viewed as two-star quality, then there's nothing else in London deserves to be either. Surely to hell this must be his year for an upgrade?

[Jon Tseng]

Tante Claire moved to The Berkley and dropped a star in the second or third year  after the move. 

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Really? Was sure both things happened around the turn of the millennium. While I can't argue from knowledge, the New York Times seems to tally with the memory.

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LTC dropped a star immediately on the move. As NB says, move to the berkeley doubled the covers but quality suffered.

[wackychef]

Good evening! I know its fun to predict stars being given out from michelin ,but London isn't the whole of Great Britain !!! I as a chef ate in the capital last week and had 1 awful meal and one average one at restaurants that have been mentioned in numerious different posts above.What i'm trying to say is that alot of v interesting and ambitious food is cooked outside of the capital,and those restaurants should be given praise and credit! London london london how boring yawn!!

[Stephen W]

What i'm trying to say is that alot of v interesting and ambitious food is cooked outside of the capital,and those restaurants should be given praise and credit!

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Feel free to - I'm sure we'd welcome your input.

To be fair to everyone else here, on this topic alone I've seen mentions of:

Le Champignon Sauvage

The Sportsman

L'Enclume

Martin Wishart

Sat Bains

Nathan Outlaw

Fraiche

Anthonys

none of which are London restaurants as far as I know (and I've probably missed several others).

And I think the announcement is 24 Jan.

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Wednesday 23rd according to Michelin.

[battleofthebulge]

alot of v interesting and ambitious food is cooked outside of the capital,and those restaurants should be given praise and credit!

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Agreed.

In Kent, Apicius is always wonderful and I hope gets upgraded from a bib to a star.

However I would be surprised if The West House keeps its star. We ate there in spring last year, and whilst the food was mostly good, the service was amateurish.

Sarah

Edited January 12, 2008 by battleofthebulge (log)

[nikkib]

As much as i love toms kitchen there is NO WAY it is a michelin starred restaurant and despite having a very competent meal at the sportsman i really don't see how that is star worthy either. Are we really suggesting they are up to the standards of maze or l'atelier or arbutus and the ledbury? personally i don't see it myself. I would also be disappointed if Ducasse got given 2 straight away as despite the fact he has so obviously proven it elsewhere, he has only benn open a matter of weeks and i am sure he missed the cut off point and don't really see why they should make an exception for him, if they do it would be a shame for L'autre pied to miss out on their first star but really they should both be on next years as it is just too early. I am more than prepared to eat my words when the guide is published but sanity might just prevail.

[wackychef]

Devonshire arms 0*

Sketch 0*

Danesfield house 1*

Clivedon 0*

Wintringham fields 0*

Waterside 1* (This in my opinion is what it should be)

[naebody]

As much as i love toms kitchen there is NO WAY it is a michelin starred restaurant and despite having a very competent meal at the sportsman i really don't see how that is star worthy either. Are we really suggesting they are up to the standards of maze or l'atelier or arbutus and the ledbury?

No, yes, yes, no.

Sketch 0*

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Really? You're basing that on The Lecture Room, rather than the ground-floor disco-teria, right? TLR is ridiculous and awful in many, many ways, but the food tends at least to be interesting and proficiently executed. There are plenty of other starred places I'd chop before TLR@S.

As for the London-centric argument: give over. It's where most of us live, and there are more than 50 Mich stars worthy of discussion within a two-zone travelcard of our tiny, overpriced flats. Of course the argument will gravitate towards the capital.

Plus, it's an unspoken truth that anyone under 65 who doesn't live in London has, in some fundamental way, failed.

(runs)

(Edited for tonal clarity.)

Edited January 13, 2008 by naebody (log)

[adey73]

Can ask a churlish question to those in the know.

Are the Michelin reviewers the same as used in the rest of Europe or are they a dedicated Brit bunch?

And has anyone been to Heathcotes long lost flagship in Longridge, has it improved?

(I had an overbrined rabbits leg stuffed with cabbage & Foie for a main last time I was there and it was saltier than Fleetwood)