Dances with rice paper--need some pointers

[mizducky]

Hi folks--I'm trying to teach myself how to use Vietnamese rice paper (bahn trang) with the aim of making fresh spring rolls (a.k.a. salad rolls or summer rolls--the uncooked ones, as opposed to the deep fried "spring rolls"). I'm discovering it's much trickier than it looks!

There seems to be some fine line with pre-soaking them--too little and they're not pliable enough to work with, too much and they eventually wind up way too limp in the finished product. All sources are saying to soak them briefly, but I'm not sure how brief is brief. 20 seconds? More? Less? And what temperature should the soaking water be? I've seen some sites on the web that say soak them in hot water, and others that say cold water.

Or maybe I'm not buying the right kind of rice paper in the first place? Looking at the ingredient lists on rice papers in the local Vietnamese market, I see extremely few that contain just rice flour; many contain just tapioca starch, and the rest are mixtures of the two with either rice or tapioca listed first. Which is preferable? Or are the different types useful for different things?

Any suggestions or guidance on these questions, or on rice paper wrangling in general, will be heartily appreciated.

(I searched eGullet as best I could for previous topics on this, but didn't turn up anything...)

Edited to fix speling errur.

Edited December 6, 2007 by mizducky (log)

[SuzySushi]

Hi MizD,

What I do is set up an assembly line with the dry rice papers, a Pyrex pie pan of water -- it doesn't need to be warm; just wet, so I usually use lukewarm water for my own comfort -- and a dinner plate or tray on which to either stack the damp rice papers or roll each individually.

Each brand is different and I can rarely get the same brand the next time -- I usually buy the ones with the red rose on the package, but it's not always the same label! The ones I have in the pantry now were packed for a local trading company in Honolulu, so that's no help, but they list rice flour and salt as their ingredients. They have that distinctive criss-cross pattern that shows they were dried on bamboo trays.

They don't take long to soak -- I've never timed it but it's less than 20 seconds. Just dip the papers into the water one at a time, and push them under till they're completely wet (no dry spots) and flexible. Don't leave them soaking too long or they'll begin to tear. Take them out and they're ready to work with.

(When I've needed just a few, I've actually "soaked" them by just running them under the faucet for a few seconds. They're pretty forgiving.)

[heidih]

(When I've needed just a few, I've actually "soaked" them by just running them under the faucet for a few seconds. They're pretty forgiving.)

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I also do that when I am making just a few for myself. I find that they continue to soften for a little bit after you wet them, so I usually let it set on my work surface (a plate) for maybe half a minute while I dry my hands off and start loading the roll. I find that if I soak in a bowl I have a tendency to let them get too soft and then they fold onto themselves and make a mess.

I checked the ingredients on mine. Both packs are from 99 Ranch Market and are labeled banh trang and sport a red rose. The one from Vietnam says tapioca starch, water, salt, and the one from Thailand just says flour, water, salt. They seem to behave the same.

[kbjesq]

(When I've needed just a few, I've actually "soaked" them by just running them under the faucet for a few seconds. They're pretty forgiving.)

I also do that when I am making just a few for myself. I find that they continue to soften for a little bit after you wet them, so I usually let it set on my work surface (a plate) for maybe half a minute while I dry my hands off and start loading the roll. I find that if I soak in a bowl I have a tendency to let them get too soft and then they fold onto themselves and make a mess.

I also don't soak mine at all - just run under water to wet both sides and lay out on a clean counter. I make 8 rolls at a time (have your mise ready!) and by the time that I've run the 8th one under the water, the 1st one is perfectly moistened and ready to roll.

Ditto on using the ones with the red rose on the package. By the way, what's with the shrimp rice papers? I bought some one time on a whim, and they are still in my pantry. Is there a special use for these or just go ahead and use them for summer rolls?

[mizducky]

Thanks for all the responses, everyone. I think my problem has been that I've not been letting the rice paper rest for a moment between wetting them and starting to roll them. I will attempt further experiments and report back.

By the way, what's with the shrimp rice papers?  I bought some one time on a whim, and they are still in my pantry.  Is there a special use for these or just go ahead and use them for summer rolls?

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Do you mean the bahn trang with little dried shrimp (and/or sesame seeds or other small tasty bits) embedded into them? My understanding is that those are meant to be used not as wrappers but as crackers. I think you're supposed to toast those a bit first, and then break them into pieces. Anybody know better?

[hzrt8w]

There seems to be some fine line with pre-soaking them--too little and they're not pliable enough to work with, too much and they eventually wind up way too limp in the finished product. All sources are saying to soak them briefly, but I'm not sure how brief is brief. 20 seconds? More? Less? And what temperature should the soaking water be? I've seen some sites on the web that say soak them in hot water, and others that say cold water.

←

Vietnamese rice papers seem to be quite generic.

From my experience: I usually prepare a small bin of luke-warm water. I soak the rice paper one sheet at a time - quickly. Around 20 to 30 seconds. Fish it out and let it air-dry a bit before using it to make a roll. I had soak a stack of rice paper at the beginning: big mistake. It's really hard to separate them once dried - ended up tearing a lot of rice paper useless. Restaurants do that since they serve rice papers in a stack. But I think they just soak a whole stack of rice paper and fish them out immediately.

[hzrt8w]

Ditto on using the ones with the red rose on the package.  By the way, what's with the shrimp rice papers?  I bought some one time on a whim, and they are still in my pantry.  Is there a special use for these or just go ahead and use them for summer rolls?

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This sounds like "shrimp chips" (about 2 inches in diameter) and not rice paper. Maybe they are the same thing, I don't know. Shrimp chips are made of ground shrimp and tapioca flour. In the Chinese way (perhaps Vietnamese do the same thing): we deep-fry the chips. They will curl up and expand. Drain the oil. Let them cool. Just eat them as snacks.

[mrbigjas]

no, they sell vietnamese spring roll wrappers with dried shrimp in them. also sesame seeds, either white or black. they seem neat, but i've never bought them.

[dockhl]

mizducky~

my daughter and I make these frequently (they are on her list of 'last meals') and we usually follow Rachel's Advice and layer them in between damp paper towels. That seems to give you a little wiggle time. I drag them through almost boiling water and then onto the paper towel. Layer about 6, turn them over and the first is perfect.

Keep in mind that if they sit too long, you cannot get them off the paper towel, however. Time is of the essence......

Love these things !

[mizducky]

Thanks, all. I think I'm finally beginning to get the hang of these things. Still haven't made one quite pretty enough, I think, to be worth photographing. But they've all tasted pretty good.

And yep, it was the bit about waiting long enough between wetting the things and trying to wrap that was tripping me up. There's apparently a point where they're just pliable enough to wrap, but still with a bit of body to them. I'm beginning to hit that point pretty reliably.

Part of why I'm working on my skills with these things is a dinner for eight I'm planning to cater in late January. But another motivation is my suspicion, proved correct, that these things are way low in calories. (clickie and clickie) I'm always looking for new and interesting ways to do sandwich/hand-held food concoctions that are tasty, attractive, and don't blow away major chunks of my daily carb allotment in a single meal. Between the rice papers and the usual fillings, summer/salad rolls could be the best healthy food thing since pho.

[heidih]

But another motivation is my suspicion, proved correct, that these things are way low in calories.

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I know I can't rely on the backs of the packs cuz some of the caloric values don't make sense, but based on common sense such a thin layer at 15 or 20 cal/ makes sense. They also expand my mind in terms of wrapping. I now find that wrapping my protein and pickled and fresh veg in a sesame/perilla leaf is as satisfying as the rice paper wrap. I am also wondering how the tofu skin can be used in such a fresh application. So much to explore...

[Dejah]

But another motivation is my suspicion, proved correct, that these things are way low in calories.

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I know I can't rely on the backs of the packs cuz some of the caloric values don't make sense, but based on common sense such a thin layer at 15 or 20 cal/ makes sense. They also expand my mind in terms of wrapping. I now find that wrapping my protein and pickled and fresh veg in a sesame/perilla leaf is as satisfying as the rice paper wrap. I am also wondering how the tofu skin can be used in such a fresh application. So much to explore...

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Re soaking the rice paper: I use a 10 inch pyrex pie plate filled with warm water. One wrapper is immersed until pliable, and as I pull it out to use, I slip a new one into the water. I do the wrapping on a wooden board. If the wrapper is too wet, I blot it with a wrung out wet paper towel.

I see people usually use raw vegetables and softened rice noodles in their filling, but I have always prefered to stir-fry my filling (bean sprouts, julienned carrots, green onion, rice noodles, fish sauce) just a little to blend the flavours. Fresh mint is good herb to include as a see-thru' decoration and for accent flavour. Thai basil and cilantro can also be used in place of mint.

Heidih: You'd probably enjoy lettuce wraps/cups with stir-fried diced vegetables, waterchestnuts, and Chinese mushrooms with a touch of hoisin sauce.I served those at my son's wedding rehearsal dinner and everyone enjoyed making their own.

With tofu skin, you'd have to steam the rolls before eating. I think they also deepfry them as dim sum.

[kbjesq]

Ditto on using the ones with the red rose on the package.  By the way, what's with the shrimp rice papers?  I bought some one time on a whim, and they are still in my pantry.  Is there a special use for these or just go ahead and use them for summer rolls?

←

This sounds like "shrimp chips" (about 2 inches in diameter) and not rice paper. Maybe they are the same thing, I don't know. Shrimp chips are made of ground shrimp and tapioca flour. In the Chinese way (perhaps Vietnamese do the same thing): we deep-fry the chips. They will curl up and expand. Drain the oil. Let them cool. Just eat them as snacks.

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This is a picture of the product that I mentioned:

Now that I actually looked at the package, it does say "sesame cracker". In the store, they were right next to the regular rice paper that I normally use for summer rolls, so I just thought that these were shrimp-flavored rice paper. Do I break these up and toast them, as Mizducky suggests? How would these normally be served?

[mizducky]

Now that I actually looked at the package, it does say "sesame cracker".  In the store, they were right next to the regular rice paper that I normally use for summer rolls, so I just thought that these were shrimp-flavored rice paper.  Do I break these up and toast them, as Mizducky suggests?  How would these normally be served?

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Thanks for reminding me -- I found this very informative article all about these cracker-style banh trang, including how to toast them, plus other inventive uses for them. Now I want to pick up a package of these and do some experimenting myself!

[kbjesq]

Thanks for reminding me -- I found this very informative article all about these cracker-style banh trang, including how to toast them, plus other inventive uses for them. Now I want to pick up a package of these and do some experimenting myself!

Thanks for this link! This is perfect and I have a gas cooktop so I can toast them as recommended.

[Ce'nedra]

The rice paper I use is really firm and doesn't break easily...can't remember the brand so I'll go check and let you guys know. Remind me! I highly recommend it!

[Ce'nedra]

Ok took a photo of the rice paper as promised today (I was eating nem nuong) -it's the Papaya Tree brand.

This is by far one of the best imho. Perfect. Doesn't break easily at all. Nice and firm and has that nice chewy bite that I love.

But back to the original topic of how to use rice paper, I really don't think you need towels or anything in between. If it works, great. But it's not a necessity, I don't think.

Have one or two (depending on how many people are eating) big-ish bowls of water readily placed on table (not warm, not cold, no boiling, no anything...straight out from the water filter tap) .

I then simply dip the rice paper in the bowl of water -just enough to EVENLY wet the rice paper on both sides (only takes a couple of seconds; so long as there are no spots that are left dry), then I make sure I gently shake any residue water away. Leave it on my plate to dry off for a bit while I collect the ingredients I want to stuff it with (also readily prepared on table). Add the bits and pieces on rice paper. Then roll.

Before I start to eat though, I prepare my next rice paper (exactly as I did above) and then leave it to set. I can now eat. And this same process continues.

I don't like to wet the rice papers all in one go. I do it one at a time, whenever I'm about to eat it. But I always have one ready on my plate while I'm eating so that it's not 'too' wet when I next need it.

Hope it works out for you

[dockhl]

Thanks, Ce'nedra~

It would be nice if I can make that easy approach work. I'd eat them more often if they weren't such a production

I'll try that tomorrow night !

[Ce'nedra]

No problem! Do post your results please

Here's our nem nuong dinner where we used the rice papers!

[Ce'nedra]

Just thought I'd mention that other than the Papaya Tree brand that I previously recommended, the 'Horse' brand is also one of the best ones I've tried.

I alternate between the two brands.

Here's a picture in case you're wondering