Panna Cotta: Recipes & Techniques

[ComeUndone]

Thanks Lesley for the gelatin conversion. In the Gordon Ramsay Just Dessert book, he assumed 4 sheets=11g so this is what I assumed too. I suppose there is probably difference in gelatine standards between North America and UK.

Ted, I used powdered gelatine because I did not have any leaf gelatine on hand. However, I did weight, bloom, and scrape every last bit so I don't think that's the reason the end product did not set properly. I think I'll give the recipe another try with leaf gelatine.

Here is a picture of what I ended up doing for the chocolate tasting plate.

From left to right:

1. white chocolate espresso mousse tart

2. cold hot chocolate

3. malted milk chocolate tart

This is the first time that I design a tasting plate. I try to play around with using white, dark, and milk chocolate for each component. Having two tarts is probably not the best idea of providing textural contrast. However, I really like the white-on-black versus the black-on-white visual contrast. Given a number of restrictions including limited access to fridge, no freezer (i.e. no ice-cream), no oven/stove, and sturdy enough to withstand travelling (I have to deliver the components and assemble on-site), I am really proud of my first attempt.

To be honest, I enjoyed this whole creation process very very much. It's fascinating how I started off with one idea and evolved to another.

[speidec]

Can any of the pastry genuis' assembled here offer advice or a recipe for a yogurt panna cotta? I am using 32oz of yogurt, 2c mascarpone, 2c creme fraiche, and 1.5c sugar and 10 gelatine sheets, plus a vanilla bean and some coffee beans for flavor. I kind of made this up and I am not a pastry cook so I know there are 'issues' with the recipe. It generally tastes fine, but grainy, and I set it up on a half sheet pan atop pate brisse. When we serve it, we cut a square and top it with native strawberries and rhubarb sorbet. I just want the panna cotta to taste richer, stay firm enough to cut, but not rubbery, and eleminate the graininess. Any advice?

[origamicrane]

i think its the yogurt thats causes the graininess

try reducing the yogurt, increase the mascapone and use a few more vanilla beans

[Wendy DeBord]

Any advice?

I think you're always bound to have more success if you begin with a solid recipe and experiment out from that. Thats one of the differences in how pastry people think verses cooking people.

What are you doing with your coffee beans? How are you introducing them....ground......infused into what, how? Do you have silver or gold gelatin sheets?

I don't have a recipe floating in the top of my head.........I'd need to look thru a couple books to offer up one. If you can explain more about what you want that would help me help you. Is this a coffee flavored yogurt panna cotta?

[Bond Girl]

I strained my Panna Cotta mixture through a fine sieve whenever I need to make it for company. The seeds in the Vanilla beans tend to make it grainy.

[speidec]

Good point with the recipe idea, I am actually going on the bisis of 1 sheet of gelatine per cup of liquid. The coffe beans are left whole and help accent the flavor of the vanilla. We do the same with our creme brulee and the result is a furthur richness of vanilla flavor. We are only talking ten to twenty beans. I am wondering if the yogurt is separating when I heat the mixture up in order to a. melt the sugar and b. melt the gelatine. If anyone has a great recipe I'd love to see it. I've had real pastry chefs' panna cotta before and it was perfect, almost custard like and full of flavor.

[tan319]

I think the mascarpone is what is making it grainy.

That stuff is very tempermental.

I had some break on me the other day when I was making my dulce de leche mascarpone cakes, something that never happens to me.

Had to stick blend it back to emulsify.

You have a LOT of solid-ish type of ingredients there.

That's going to mess with that ethereal type of quivery panna cotta we all know and love.

Which I think liquids typically lend to it.

My reciope is generally...

For around 18 4 oz. servings:

Quart of milk or half and half (my pref)

5 to 5 and a half cups of heavy cream.

8 oz. sugar

flavoring.

oh, and about 8 to 9 leafs of silver gel bloomed.

If you're using that Glidden stuff, that really dark german gel, maybe back it down to 8?

And be careful how much you use anyways, considering that yogurt and cheese(especially mascarpone?) have gums/stabilizers of sorts in them oftentimes.

And if you're looking for that tang from the yogurt, would the creme fraiche supply enough of that?

So, adjustments would probably have to be made considering all of that heavy stuff.

One thing I'm wondering....

What if you tried, just for the sport, a neutral flavored type of those liquid yogurts, if they make them, like Nourishe(SP?) by Yoplait?

Could be interesting.

That panna cotta recipe above has never let me down.

Good Luck to you!

[Wendy DeBord]

You have a LOT of solid-ish type of ingredients there.

That's going to mess with that ethereal type of quivery panna cotta we all know and love.

Which I think liquids typically lend to it.

Thats was my first gut reaction too. I think I'd elimate using the marscarpone. 3 dairy bases seems like over kill.

I briefly looked thru a couple books for you yesterday and this is what I came up with, where I'd start. I haven't made either of these recipes but I think the source is extremely reliable, they come from Claudia Flemings book The Last Course, the desserts of gramercy tavern.

Buttermilk Panna Cotta

In a small bowl combine:

1 1/2 tsp. gelatin

1 tbsp. h20

Let soften. In a pot warm:

1 1/4 c. heavy cream

7 tbsp. sugar

When the sugar has dissolved add the softened gelatin, stir until it dissolves. Then add:

1 3/4 c. buttermilk

Strain and chill to set.

This is her creme fraiche panna cotta:

1 tsp. gelatine

1 1/2 tbsp. water to bloom

2 c. heavy cream

1 1/2 c. creme fraiche

1/3 c. sugar

I think either recipe should be lovely. The only other thing that worries me is that you pour this on your base, then chill and cut. I'm having a hard time invisioning the panna cotta being stable enough to cut it cleanly.....as least the recipes I've used in the past. I think your probably going to need to increase the gelatin for this to cut well.

Do you make this fresh everyday so your brisse doesn't get soggie?

[speidec]

Wendy and Ted, thank you both for the technical insight. I've looked at different recipes and tried to work them into what we need, but I have never had anyone give me the pastry chef's trained wisdom. Or maybe someone did once and I wasn't paying attention in school.... I will try all these techniques. Two things, the brisse doesn't get very soggy, in my opinion, you may think it was though. And I use the gold leaf gelatine which I am realizing is not good. Where can I find the silver? Again thanks for the advice. We really need a professional pastry chef! By the way, Ted, how's the 'paper' work going?

[duckduck]

I had a fennel panna cotta recently that was to die for. Anybody seen a recipe? I've been meaning to try Claudia Fleming's panna cottas. They sound great. And as a funky side note, don't ever bother with Alton Brown's panna cotta brain recipe. It has way too much gelatin in it. Total rubber.

[Kareen]

. It generally tastes fine, but grainy,

I've made my share of yogurt and buttermilk pannacotta working with Michael (Laiskonis) last year, I would say that with these dairies you have to JUST melt your sugar in just warm milk, add your gelatine than intoduce to your other dairy. If the first preparation is too warm, it becomes grainy!

Kareen

[tan319]

Speidec,

Let me know how it works out.

Speaking of work, where are you located?

There could be a "pro" pastry chef looking to change his scene....

edited to add: you know, there's been so much going on that I forgot all about the paper thing.

Have you guys done more with it?

Edited July 23, 2004 by tan319 (log)

[speidec]

We're in Providence, RI, in a very small place now, but we are changing locations to a bit larger restaurant in the coming months. I hear October, but I've seen the new location and now I'm thinking next year!

I tried this panna cotta recipe derived from everyone's advice and I have to say it is the best I have tasted, thus far..

32oz whole milk yogurt

2c mascarpone

2c half+half

1.5 c sugar

1.5 vanilla beans

8 sheets of gelatine

I only heated up the half and half, added the sugar, vanilla and let it infuse as long as possible and melted the gelatine in this mixture. I whipped the yogurt and mascarpone together with a tablespoon of half and half to get it smooth and later added the warm half and half mixture, strained twice, and poured on top of a cooled, half sheet pan of pate brisse brushed with white chocolate to avoid sogginess, and chilled. For an amateur its not bad.

Thanks for all the advice from everyone who can tell where their input was used!

As for the papers, Ted, all I wanted to do was figure it out, like you we've been to busy to play around.

[Anna N]

Today I made my first attempt at Panna Cotta. I used this recipe Hazelnut Panna Cotta and followed it to the letter but it did not set even after 6 hours in the 'fridge. What might have gone wrong?

The taste was excellent but it was a liquid custard consistency not something that could be turned out of a mold. Thanks for any help you can offer.

[Shalmanese]

Try upping the gelatine.

[scott123]

I'm guessing you used frozen blackberries, correct? Those'll probably give off more water than fresh. Also, I'm guessing you went with sour cream, correct? Some brands of sour cream are looser than others.

Refrigerators can vary as well. If you give it some more time, it might set.

If, after chilling overnight, it isn't set, return everything to a sauce pan and add more bloomed gelatin.

[Anna N]

I'm guessing you used frozen blackberries, correct? Those'll probably give off more water than fresh.  Also, I'm guessing you went with sour cream, correct? Some brands of sour cream are looser than others.

Refrigerators can vary as well.  If you give it some more time, it might set.

If, after chilling overnight, it isn't set, return everything to a sauce pan and add more bloomed gelatin.

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Nope they were fresh blackberries and they never actually go into the panna cotta but are served on the side. I did go with sour cream but it was a nice thick one. I have just checked the two remaining ones in the fridge and they are still not set. Guess I will have to try again with more gelatin. Is there any formula for gelatin to liquid proportions?

Thanks.

[Swisskaese]

I read that the rule is 1/4 ounce of gelatin to set 16oz of liquid.

Did you bloom and dissolve the gelatin?

How to bloom and dissolve gelatin.

[Anna N]

I read that the rule is 1/4 ounce of gelatin to set 16oz of liquid.

Did you bloom and dissolve the gelatin?

How to bloom and dissolve gelatin.

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Yes, I did bloom and dissolve the gelatin. I think the problem is 1 tsp gelatin to 3 1/3 + cups of liquid. I have just read the gelatin pack and it says that one envelope (approx 1 TBS or 15 ml) will set 2 cups of liquid. So I am thinking that the recipe should have called for 1 TBS rather than 1 tsp.

[Shalmanese]

Depends on how "set" you want it to be. I'm assuming the set on the packet is referring to a jello consistency which is much firmer than you want a panna cotta. Probably about 1/2 that amount would give you the consistency you desire. Also, just in case, never put fresh pineapple, papaya or guava in a gelatine based dessert. There is an enzyme in the juices that prevents gelatine from setting. Cooked or canned juice is fine.

[BarbaraY]

I think one tablespoon or one packet would be the correct proportion with 3 1/2 cups liquid to make it soft set without having the jello consistency.

[Shalmanese]

According to this article, bloom strengths between gelatines vary wildly so what might have been a perfectly valid amount for the recipe writer might be woefully underpowered for your usage. The general rule seems to be to find a particular brand of gelatine and stick with it and know the proportions for hard set/soft set.

[Anna N]

According to this article, bloom strengths between gelatines vary wildly so what might have been a perfectly valid amount for the recipe writer might be woefully underpowered for your usage. The general rule seems to be to find a particular brand of gelatine and stick with it and know the proportions for hard set/soft set.

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Hmmm........ very interesting. Thanks. The gelatine most readily available here is Knox. I think I am stuck doing some experimentation! I appreciate your interest.

Edited to add: I just checked the Knox website and their panna cotta recipe (very different from mine!) calls for 1 envelope (1 T) for 8 servings so I think I will start there and see how it works.

Edited January 2, 2006 by Anna N (log)

[BettyK]

Anna, I use Knox gelatin too. I checked my notes and I've been using 1 1/2 tsp of gelatin for 2 cups of heavy cream + 1 cup of milk or buttermilk. If you want a little firmer panna cotta, you can add a little more.

[Anna N]

Anna, I use Knox gelatin too. I checked my notes and I've been using 1 1/2 tsp of gelatin for 2 cups of heavy cream + 1 cup of milk or buttermilk. If you want a little firmer panna cotta, you can add a little more.

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Thank you. I have to give it a few days rest as one can only eat so much dessert but will be trying it again in a week or so and will report back.