Do Italians "do" foreign food?

[Helenandchips]

Hi there

Helen Pidd here. I'm a journalist from the Guardian in London (www.guardian.co.uk). I'm writing an article about what "foreign" foods are most popular in other countries. Eg, Indian in Britain, Chinese in India, Italian in Japan, etc.

And I am interested to hear your thoughts on what non-Italian cuisine is most popular with Italians. Our Rome correspondent tells me that Italians are generally very conservative where food is concerned and that anyone below the age of about 30 views foreign food with the deepest possible suspicion. eg For a Roman, 'foreign food' is, say, from Tuscany, which is two hours up the motorway.

Is there any truth in this?

All thoughts gratefully received.

thanks a lot

Helen

[Pizza Napoletana]

Hi there

Helen Pidd here. I'm a journalist from the Guardian in London (www.guardian.co.uk). I'm writing an article about what "foreign" foods are most popular in other countries. Eg, Indian in Britain, Chinese in India, Italian in Japan, etc.

And I am interested to hear your thoughts on what non-Italian cuisine is most popular with Italians. Our Rome correspondent tells me that Italians are generally very conservative where food is concerned and that anyone below the age of about 30 views foreign food with the deepest possible suspicion.  eg For a Roman, 'foreign food' is, say, from Tuscany, which is two hours up the motorway.

Is there any truth in this?

All thoughts gratefully received.

thanks a lot

Helen

←

Italians are indeed very conservative and there is a unique regionality stamp to our food. However other regions food is not considered "foreigner" at all, otherwise pasta & pizza would have not reached the north...

[Maureen B. Fant]

Hi there

Helen Pidd here. I'm a journalist from the Guardian in London (www.guardian.co.uk). I'm writing an article about what "foreign" foods are most popular in other countries. Eg, Indian in Britain, Chinese in India, Italian in Japan, etc.

And I am interested to hear your thoughts on what non-Italian cuisine is most popular with Italians. Our Rome correspondent tells me that Italians are generally very conservative where food is concerned and that anyone below the age of about 30 views foreign food with the deepest possible suspicion.  eg For a Roman, 'foreign food' is, say, from Tuscany, which is two hours up the motorway.

Is there any truth in this?

All thoughts gratefully received.

thanks a lot

Helen

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I wrote that in an article in the NY Times some years ago, and I think it's still true, as long as we understand that it's a sweeping oversimplification. I grew up in New York, and we used to say I feel like Lebanese, or I feel like Chinese, or let's see what that Persian place is like. You don't get that here. The few "ethnic" places are either greatly diluted for Italian tastes or holes in the wall that cater for new immigrants. There isn't even much French food here. One of the two Vietnamese restaurants closed a few years ago, but the other is hanging in. There are a few Indians, and I think a couple of Thais. There are quite a few Chinese, very few of them good, and by good I mean acceptable. If there's a traditional ethnic here, it would have to be Horn of Africa, but even there, there isn't much. I've been to an upscale sort-of American restaurant called Duke (excellent), and there's a chain (well, I know of two) of Argentine steakhouses where I've never been.

Exotic ingredients are creeping into the more creative kitchens, and there have been incursions from the Middle East. And there definitely are more exotic places than there used to be. There are now doner kebabs et sim., around, but if we're talking about mainstream trattorias and restaurants, when you want a change from the local fare, you're still (for now) more likely to think Sicily or Sardinia than Asia.

[hathor]

I'm out in the countryside in Umbria, and there isn't much at all in the way of "foreign" ingredients, let alone restaurants. Two years ago I couldn't even buy ginger, but that has changed. Now I would consider selling my soul for a stash of limes.

There is a "Chinese" restaurant, one town over, in Citta di Castello, but I've never heard anything good said about it. Citta does have a good "hallal" (spelling?) butcher and you can buy some exotic spices there, but that's about it.

Except for some high end restaurants, at the trattoria level, Umbrian menus are all very, very similar. Even fish is considered exotic, or a specialty, and we are only 1 1/2 hours from the Adriatic.

I suppose you could say that Italian taste is conservative, but it's more a case of truly believing that they are already eating the best food on earth, so why taste something else?

[russ parsons]

of course they do. they're very open-minded. sometimes they'll eat dishes from as far as 25 miles away.

[Pontormo]

I suppose you could say that Italian taste is conservative, but it's more a case of truly believing that they are already eating the best food on earth, so why taste something else?

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I hesitate in saying this, but the attitude is dangerously close to that of the narrow-minded midwesterner who won't eat his vegetables and bans foie gras.

Florence may be the "citta degli stranieri", but in the midst of stalwart traditional foodways, Eito, a reportedly good Japanese restaurant, has been around as long as I can remember. Danny Rock has been doing brisk business, though, here of course, you have to take the relentless effect of tourism into account. Note the reviews on the Web site are all from guidebooks geared to the young set. It may be that Coquinarius is run by non-natives; at any rate, they make an excellent American-style cheese cake.

I might add that one of the best places to judge insidious changes is in Essalunga and other large supermarkets. I've mentioned elsewhere on eGullet that I rented a room from an old woman who was very surprised to learn her "Philadelphia" (cream cheese) was not Italian. Kellogg's fiocchi di mais may be purchased by expatriates, but I have seen more than one Italian pick up "biologico" versions or more frequently, muesli, as a change from the typical quick stop for "caffe ed una brioche" in the morning; that would be a croissant as opposed to an eggy risen thing, but as French as it is Italian.

Meanwhile, back at the supermarket, there are cartons of spremuta. Not sure how Italian that is, except I see more foreigners paying extra for fresh squeezed grapefruit juice in bars whereas Italians tend to prefer syrupy canned fruit juices cut with water with maybe a little more sugar added to the glass. I first fell in love with Greek yogurt in Italy--back in France there was only Yoplait or Swiss brands at the time. Membership in the EU, I am sure, will have more and more of an impact. Then, a case for outside influence can be made for the ubiquity that is a dado of Star.

Now that more Italians are buying bread at these large chain stores rather than a decent bakery (harder to find these days), there are even some Wonder bread types of sliced loaves. A more positive version of that would be an open-minded response to the breads of others as obsessed with the idea of Organic as the Italians are: multi-grain loaves that would feel at home in Brattleboro.

An American who married an Italian and spends her summers in a tiny rural area outside Florence always whips up a batch of brownies for social occasions with her neighbors. They may be exotic, but the gesture has made her very, very popular.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[tsquare]

This made me realize that travelling in Italy was the first time I didn't eat "other" ethnic cuisine. Even in Guatemala we broke ranks for something Asian (same in Portugal, England, Ireland, Holland, France...) I think I was having far too good a time with Italian regional cooking to crave a break.

[rgruby]

As the others have stated, no, Italians don't generally go for non-Italian food.

And, yes, even within Italy they tend to stick with food from their region, from what I've seen. But, I suspect this is changing, albeit more slowly than elsewhere.

So, on those few occasions they don't eat Italian, what do they eat? Well, for the younger crowd, there are McDonalds. And, the places I've been (the Veneto, Emilia-Romagna, Florence & Rome), I'd say Chinese would have to be the most common ethnic eateries, but then, I didn't really see a whole lot of them either.

Cheers,

Geoff Ruby

[Bill Klapp]

And Helen, consider that Maureen is in Rome. Torino spawned a few ethnic ristoranti in anticipation of the 2006 Winter Olympics, and Milano, being the New York City of Italia, is chock full of non-Italian restaurants, but aside from that, only "cinese" (Chinese) seems to enjoy any currency in Italy at all, and in most cases, it is (a) bad, at least by American standards, and (b) dominated by pasta/noodle dishes that are more Italian than Chinese, anyway. I second what Russ said as well. Tuscan or Ligurian food would quality as "foreign" in the Piemonte. One of the most exotic places near me in Neive is a Sardinian fish house!

[divina]

I have been i Florence since 1984, when I arrived there were several foreign restaurants, 2 of them were chinese, and 2 sardenian!!!

ha ha..

Now, we have over 150 chinese restaurants, 4 indian, 4 japanese, and a zillion shwarma places ( or gyros) owned by the most varied groups of people, Turks, Peruvians, Kurds. I think one of the reasons is they have the money to open their own businesses..get permits.. and someone franchises the stores.

the Sandwiches are popular as they are under 3 Euro, and fill one's stomach.

I don't think that it is really popular on a weekly basis.. also the fact that going out to eat is so expensive. The nicer International restaurants are expensive.

our Mexican restaurant just closed... $25 for fajita's!

The birth rate for italians is down in italy and up for the immigrants... Florence has a china town outside the city now, and I am sure they are creating restaurants for themselves..which could be great.

I just remember the first time I tried chinese in FLorence they served me Italian style, Pasta first!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[divina]

and yes.. regional foods are still regional in Italy.

There are a couple of naples style pizza places with some other Dishes from naples, one new sardenian place actually in downtown Florence, and a calabrian chef has two menu's tuscan and calabrian.

No Roman food here yet!

[Eden]

On the home front, when I was in italy this spring, there were a ton of cookbooks for "foreign cuisines" in the bookstores, and I have an old issue of the magazine "La cucina italiana" (in italian) in front of me, and there are several french recipes, as well as an article about Stilton, so while there may not be a plethora of foreign restaurants I think there is definitely some interest in non-italian foods.

[hathor]

I just saw a sign up....there will be a Mexican festival in Citta di Castello next weekend! Whadyaknow! If we make it there....I'll be happy to give the full report. I feel a margarita craving comin' on!

[weinoo]

I just saw a sign up....there will be a Mexican festival in Citta di Castello next weekend! Whadyaknow!  If we make it there....I'll be happy to give the full report. I feel a margarita craving comin' on!

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And maybe you can find out where they source their limes !!

[hathor]

I just saw a sign up....there will be a Mexican festival in Citta di Castello next weekend! Whadyaknow!  If we make it there....I'll be happy to give the full report. I feel a margarita craving comin' on!

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And maybe you can find out where they source their limes !!

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No kidding!! I bet they bring them from Mexico.

[Kropotkin]

Hello Helen, I have a friend who's done some research into the recent immigrant communities of Rome, and especially their integration into the local economies of the Esquilino district (to the South of Termini). As I recall, he mapped the rise of new businesses and restaurants around Pzza. Vittorio Emmanuele II, and more particularly, for your interests, he's eaten in all (he thinks) of the city's Chinese restaurants as part of a continuing survey of their networks and structures. He should be able to offer you a unique insight into the popularity of Chinese food in Rome.

I've not eaten Chinese food in Rome for five years or so, but unless the standard has increased markedly, this is a heroic methodology indeed... all in the name of social-science!

His latest writing on this is: Pierpaolo MUDU (2006) 'Patterns of Segregation in Contemporary Rome', Urban Geography, 27, 5, pp. 422-440. He Should have his contact details on this paper, if not, PM me and I'll pass them on.

Good luck!

[cbrezi]

Hi there

Our Rome correspondent tells me that Italians are generally very conservative where food is concerned and that anyone below the age of about 30 views foreign food with the deepest possible suspicion.  .

Is there any truth in this?

All thoughts gratefully received.

thanks a lot

Helen

←

uh, well yes, there is some truth to this statement. I've discussed it with my students (adult students from the north to the south) numerous times, they find asian cooking to be dirty and generally unsanitary, especially chinese and indian cooking. that said, every time i go to my favorite chinese take out place there are italians waiting for food just like me. honestly, italians just don't like to admit anything is good if their mother didn't prepare it. for me, it's a huge compliment when i make something and italians actually ask for the recipe, this doesn't happen often. I'm not sure about the age of thirty thing either, to me, the younger italians seem more open minded but that's just my experience over the last year. best wishes

[Catriona]

There's a good indian place in Fiesole...

[SWISS_CHEF]

I live 20 minutes north of Asti in the heart of the Monferrato and there are no foreign restaurants. In Asti there are half a dozen Chinese restaurants and they thrive because they sell their food very cheap. The young people love it but it is no better the your average US strip-mall Chinese restaurant with one exception... (in true Italian style) they bring 2 or 3 bottles of Chinese grappa over to the table at the end of the meal but the stuff is so bad you can't drink it. I think it must take months for them to drain a bottle. Otherwise, there are a couple of kebab places and a Brazilian place. Not too imaginative but I don't see anyone complaining.

I have tried cooking some foreign cuisines for some of my friends and the reception is courteous but rather lukewarm. French food is particularly frowned upon and spicy food seems to generate more interest. I once made tacos and the one comment was that "the ragu would be delicious over gnocchi"

When you live and eat in the Piemonte, variety is not necessarily considered the spice of live.

[Bill Klapp]

It should be noted that the Piemontese, and I assume pretty much all Italiani, achieve variety by eating only what is in season, and the most discerning Piemontese make a point of eating most fruits and vegetables only at the very peak of the season. They preserve in peak season also, which explains why their preserved fruits and vegetables are among the world's best. Very unlike the U.S., where most produce is available year-round...and is generally flavorless. I believe that the phenomenon of "eating the seasons", perhaps even more than the distain for "foreign" foods, accounts for Italian eating habits...

[SWISS_CHEF]

When you live and eat in the Piemonte, variety is not necessarily considered the spice of live.

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After writing this and reading some of the other posts it has occurred to me that we may be giving an impression that Italians may in some way have culinary blinders on and that could not be further from the truth.

Most of us get our sense of culinary adventure from eating Mexican one night, Chinese the next and Indian on the third. Without question, that IS diverse but the Italian kitchen is so diverse that in many ways I think it lessens the demand for exotic foreign flavors.

For example at my local Essalunga (a hypermarket based in Milan) I can buy chickens, cocks, guinea hens, quails and pheasants all fresh 7 days a week. There is beef and veal and offal from Ireland and Germany and Piedmont in dozens of different cuts.There is a fish counter that could be in a magazine. Vegetables of every size and variety, including fresh Borlotti and Fava beans, a dozen different types of lettuce, half a dozen (each) different types of tomatoes, onions, and potatoes. Loads of fresh herbs, cardoons, purple and blue eggplants and on and on and on. We get fresh pasta, foccia and pizza dough everyday and scores and scores of hand-made desserts.

The"deli" counter makes Zabar's in NYC look lame and there must be 150 different cheeses on offer all the time. The extensive wine aisle is stocked and fussed over by my friend Secondo who is one of only a hand-full of certified Sommeliers in Northern Italy. Imagine, a certified Sommelier in a super market!

If it seems like the Italians have on culinary blinders, maybe it is just because they are waiting for something better to come along...and it hasn't yet.

[prasantrin]

A more positive version of that would be an open-minded response to the breads of others as obsessed with the idea of Organic as the Italians are: multi-grain loaves that would feel at home in Brattleboro.

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I think the Brattleboro reference may have gone over many people's heads. One must have lived in/near Brattleboro to truly appreciate that comment. (I did a graduate degree at SIT.)

[kellytree]

We have a chinese restaurant 25 minutes away and thats it.

There is another resturant 30 minutes away in the other direction that serves a famous ethiopian dish - basically it is a regular wild boar tomato sauce drowned in hot peppers.

Nobody around here seems to miss the lack of ethnic food.

(actually I think quite a few people are HAPPY that there isn't any around so they can say "oh I addooorree sushi - to bad you can't get it around here" end of story.)

[salutistagolosa]

Hi Helen

And I am interested to hear your thoughts on what non-Italian cuisine is most popular with Italians. Our Rome correspondent tells me that Italians are generally very conservative where food is concerned and that anyone below the age of about 30 views foreign food with the deepest possible suspicion.  eg For a Roman, 'foreign food' is, say, from Tuscany, which is two hours up the motorway.

this seems to me an overexaggeration, but I agree (I am Italian) that Italian cuisine (with all its countless regional variations) gets engrained deep in our tastebuds from a very ealry age. There are "foreign restaurants", too, by the neighbourhood ones at least have to make concessions to local taste: e.g. a local chinese also making pizza., noodles that are served as "primo", as we are used to starting with pasta, and so on. More adventurous when travelling abroad, but in Italy itself you would go to a mexican more for a change than for genuine curiosity... Of course, this is a sweeping oversimplification, let's say that this applies to teh way Ithink of the average italian, if anythign like that exists....