Philadelphia Food Media

[philadining]

We have a Craig LaBan thread to discuss what are most likely the most influential food reviews in Philly. But there are lots of other sources these days: blogs, small papers, glossy magazines, radio programs, even TV shows originating here, and I'm sure there will be more every day.

It's hard to resist the urge to just complain about the local coverage, but I hope we can find some good things to say too, pointers to new sources of info are greatly appreciated.

[KatieLoeb]

Funny you should mention this. I was just having this very same discussion with Joy Manning of Philly Style magazine yesterday. She's working on an article about the very same topic - what's new, what's hot, what's really getting people attention and influencing folks. Should be interesting when she's finished with it.

[philadining]

Sorry to start off the topic on a whiny note, but I was perplexed by a recent post on gridskipper, about eating whole animals in Philly.

It has a few good mentions of these offerings, such as Amada's whole roasted sucking pig, whole fish at Estia, etc. But there were a few entries that confused me.

They talked about whole tunas at the Reading Terminal Market. Can one buy an entire tuna there? But more importantly, why in the world would anyone want to?

They also included a couple of odd things, like Vetri's whole baby goat. But it's not as if one is served the entire goat, so it doesn't really fit into the premise of the article.

But the one that really confused me was the whole duck at Seven Sea's Chinese. First, what's with the apostrophe? Second, is there a Seven Seas restaurant in Philly? if one follows the link in the article, it links to a restaurant in College Park Maryland, which I'm thinking is stretching the traditional view of the Philadelphia metro area by a bit. Third, is a whole duck such an oddity that it makes sense to single out a place to get one?

I guess given the misspelling of Vetri in their recent Osteria entry, we shouldn't look to gridskipper for editorial precision, but still... It's an interesting phenomenon in this hyperlinked internet world that people will come upon this article and possibly come to Philly looking for some of these things.

But to put a positive spin on things, are there food blogs that we find pretty reliable and helpful?

[MarketStEl]

But to put a positive spin on things, are there food blogs that we find pretty reliable and helpful?

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I think there's general and widespread agreement on the importance and value of Foobooz.

PhilaFoodie is also useful and interesting.

[philadining]

I agree with Sandy that both Foobooz and Philafoodie are good resources, in fact I saw the gridskipper thing on Fooboz.

But this brings up yet another concept that probably fits in here, which is the editorial stance of blogs, in particular, some that are often linked by Fooboz: AroundPhilly and uwishunu.com and some others...

uwishunu, for instance is "... created and fully moderated by the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation, and features content from the uwishunu staff at GPTMC, as well as from a growing list of other contributors who are passionate about their city. That’s good, but not good enough. We want you to have a voice as well—a blog for the people, by the people."

And although they solicit entries from "the people" they apparently all need to be positive comments.

I'm not entirely sure about who runs AroundPhilly.com, but I get the sense it's similarly promotional, rather than critical.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this approach, and there very well could be very helpful info on sites like this, but it's important to know if a site is PR from the Tourism Marketing Corp, or wherever, not journalism, per se.

[Capaneus]

I agree with Sandy that both Foobooz and Philafoodie are good resources, in fact I saw the gridskipper thing on Fooboz. 

But this brings up yet another concept that probably fits in here, which is the editorial stance of blogs, in particular, some that are often linked by Fooboz: AroundPhilly and uwishunu.com and some others...

uwishunu, for instance is "... created and fully moderated by the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation, and features content from the uwishunu staff at GPTMC, as well as from a growing list of other contributors who are passionate about their city. That’s good, but not good enough. We want you to have a voice as well—a blog for the people, by the people."

And although they solicit entries from "the people" they apparently all need to be positive comments.

I'm not entirely sure about who runs AroundPhilly.com, but I get the sense it's similarly promotional, rather than critical.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this approach, and there very well could be very helpful info on sites like this, but it's important to know if a site is PR from the Tourism Marketing Corp, or wherever, not journalism, per se.

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I think a distinction needs to be made there: I don't think there is anything wrong with criticism (blogging being one form, for lack of better term) that restricts itself to the positive. Everytime a critic pans a small place struggling to find an audience, I wonder whether the review space wouldn't be better used pointing readers to the places the critic likes. And in that sense, I have no problem with the concept of a website like uwishunu.com.

The key, though, is that the criticism needs to be unswervingly honest: the temptation will be to move from highlighting the positive to obscuring the negative, from pointing out the great places to papering over the inconvenient flaws. And then we're in the realm of shilling, and that I find offensive. I would like to believe that these sites can stay on the right side of that divide, but I'm afraid that it will be very hard for the bureaucrats that ultimately hold the power to even understand the distinction, much less cleave to the ruthless honesty an enterprise like that would require.

Having said which, thanks for the pointers, I'll need to check these folks out.

[philadining]

This morning (friday March 9th) from 11am-noon Radio Times on WHYY (91FM) is doing a show about the effects of a negative restaurant review.

One of the guests is David Synder (Philafoodie) Alan Richman in the second half, and it's a live call-in show so there could be other interesting participation.

The shows are all archived, so if you missed it, go to that page linked above and you can listen on-line. (ETA: online listening links are already up.)

Edited March 9, 2007 by philadining (log)

[philadining]

I think I've heard others mention this recently, but when trying to click over to food articles on the Citypaper website, I frequently am met with interminable page loading delays, that usually never complete. I sometimes get through after several tries. Is it just me?

I was curious to check out their take on Pojangmacha, which Foobooz linked to as "a new Korean restaurant in Upper Darby" despite the article mentioning their 15-year history. (Elisa Ludwig liked it, BTW)

[Andrew Fenton]

I think I've heard others mention this recently, but when trying to click over to food articles on the Citypaper website, I frequently am met with interminable page loading delays, that usually never complete.  I sometimes get through after several tries. Is it just me? 

It loaded lickety-split on my computer, running Firefox. Dare I ask what browser you're using?

I was curious to check out their take on Pojangmacha, which Foobooz linked to as "a new Korean restaurant in Upper Darby" despite the article mentioning their 15-year history. (Elisa Ludwig liked it, BTW)

Not much detail about the food, though, which is a shame. Mrbigjas, is this the place you've recommended in the past?

[Capaneus]

I think I've heard others mention this recently, but when trying to click over to food articles on the Citypaper website, I frequently am met with interminable page loading delays, that usually never complete.  I sometimes get through after several tries. Is it just me? 

It loaded lickety-split on my computer, running Firefox. Dare I ask what browser you're using?

I was curious to check out their take on Pojangmacha, which Foobooz linked to as "a new Korean restaurant in Upper Darby" despite the article mentioning their 15-year history. (Elisa Ludwig liked it, BTW)

Not much detail about the food, though, which is a shame. Mrbigjas, is this the place you've recommended in the past?

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I had no problem using IE on my very pokey home PC. I think it's a problem with the website, not necessarily a compatibility problem.

She did talk quite a bit about the food, actually: she described the haemul panjan and the gamjatang at some length, as well as the panchan . A couple of other things get a bare mention, but keep in mind this was a sidebar, not the main Food Section article. That honor went to a paean to riesling that was, despite its evident good intentions, singularly ineffective.

I usually find better value on the several themed blurbs on food, restaurants and bars that are sprinkled through the following five pages than I get from the main articles' two pages. I think others may as well, since I noticed the Weekly taking some steps in that direction.

Edited March 15, 2007 by Capaneus (log)

[mrbigjas]

Not much detail about the food, though, which is a shame.  Mrbigjas, is this the place you've recommended in the past?

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that's the jawn all right. man i gotta get back there. the problem is, they're open till all hours, so it's hard to know if they'll be there early enough for us to go with the boy...

it's a former white tower, not white castle, though.

[mrbigjas]

She did talk quite a bit about the food, actually: she described the haemul panjan and the gamjatang at some length, as well as the panchan .

have i waxed rhapsodic about the haemul pajun there recently? seriously, you might think you've had a good one before. or you might think of it like i think of nachos: basically ok, but a too-filling appetizer that serves no real purpose.

but i'm tellin ya you haven't had one like she makes. i can't tell what elisa ludwig knows about korean food, but she got that bit right. every haemul pajun you will have in this city after you have that one will be a rank disappointment.

[Andrew Fenton]

She did talk quite a bit about the food, actually: she described the haemul panjan and the gamjatang at some length, as well as the panchan.

That's two things that are on the menu, and one that comes with the meal (and a mention of bulgogi earlier.) While there were definitely limits to how much Ludwig could discuss in a sidebar, I think that a restaurant that serves a cuisine unfamiliar to many of her readers (including me), and, especially, one that doesn't have an English-language menu, would have been improved by a little more detail. That's not a diss of her review, which I thought was quite good; but it would have been significantly more useful if it had been longer.

[Vadouvan]

http://www.phillystylemag.com/blog.cfm/blog/790.htm

[Diann]

I bet this is something that's been discussed before, but isn't it a little weird that Philadelphia print reviewers seem to travel in hordes to the same restaurants at the same time?

The latest example I'm thinking of is Citypaper AND the Philadelphia Weekly both reviewing Xochitl this week. Sure, Xochitl will need to be reveiwed by both papers -- but really, the same week? And this has definitely happened before with the Inquirer. Why is that?

Also, is it common in other cities?

[Vadouvan]

It's a small town.

That being said, Platt, Couzzo and Bruni have been known to review the same places in similar periods

[Capaneus]

I bet this is something that's been discussed before, but isn't it a little weird that Philadelphia print reviewers seem to travel in hordes to the same restaurants at the same time?

The latest example I'm thinking of is Citypaper AND the Philadelphia Weekly both reviewing Xochitl this week. Sure, Xochitl will need to be reveiwed by both papers -- but really, the same week? And this has definitely happened before with the Inquirer. Why is that?

Also, is it common in other cities?

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Well, in this case, it being a new restaurant, maybe they both decided to wait the same amount of time to give it a chance to shake down. The standard grace period is six weeks, right? How long ago did Xochitl open?

[Rich Pawlak]

It's a small town.

That being said, Platt, Couzzo and Bruni have been known to review the same places in similar periods

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And secretly dine with one another, I have been reliably told.

[Andrew Fenton]

It's a small town.

That being said, Platt, Couzzo and Bruni have been known to review the same places in similar periods

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And secretly dine with one another, I have been reliably told.

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Ooh, kinky!

I gotta go take a cold shower now...

[herbacidal]

I bet this is something that's been discussed before, but isn't it a little weird that Philadelphia print reviewers seem to travel in hordes to the same restaurants at the same time?

The latest example I'm thinking of is Citypaper AND the Philadelphia Weekly both reviewing Xochitl this week. Sure, Xochitl will need to be reveiwed by both papers -- but really, the same week? And this has definitely happened before with the Inquirer. Why is that?

Also, is it common in other cities?

←

Well, in this case, it being a new restaurant, maybe they both decided to wait the same amount of time to give it a chance to shake down. The standard grace period is six weeks, right? How long ago did Xochitl open?

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I agree, more than anything else, I'd chalk it up to reviewing a new restaurant in a certain amount of time, and also trying for a certain amount of diversity in each publication's reviews. Probably mix word of mouth buzz in there to some extent.

[philadining]

There's a surprisingly helpful compendium of media reports on the Menupages blog. They condense the major publications' stories and do a few other thematic roundups.

Or if you want to get even more meta, there's outside.in and their list of philly tagged items...

Edited May 3, 2007 by philadining (log)

[philadining]

Foie Gras debate happening right now (11-am-noon, June 6, 2007) on Radio TImes (91 FM - WHYY). Guests include Nick Nichols from the Inquirer, a rep from Hudson Valley Foie gras, and a "Hugs for Puppies" rep!

Streaming audio of the archived show available at http://www.whyy.org/91FM/radiotimes.html

Edited June 6, 2007 by philadining (log)

[dagordon]

Foie Gras debate happening right now (11-am-noon, June 6, 2007) on Radio TImes (91 FM - WHYY).  Guests include Nick Nichols from the Inquirer, a rep from Hudson Valley Foie gras, and a "Hugs for Puppies" rep!

Streaming audio of the archived show available at http://www.whyy.org/91FM/radiotimes.html

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Thanks for the heads up, that was entertaining!

Perhaps the funniest moment was when the "doctor" called in and informed everyone that the ducks involved in foie gras production are clearly diseased, as a fattened liver is a sign of disease in humans.

Presumably waddling is also a sign of disease in humans?

[mattohara]

oh i can't wait to hear it. i've downloaded the mp3.

btw i'm a corporate shill for findingphilly.com . amazing site.

Edited June 6, 2007 by mattohara (log)

[philadining]

Foie Gras debate happening right now (11-am-noon, June 6, 2007) on Radio TImes (91 FM - WHYY).  Guests include Nick Nichols from the Inquirer, a rep from Hudson Valley Foie gras, and a "Hugs for Puppies" rep!

Streaming audio of the archived show available at http://www.whyy.org/91FM/radiotimes.html

←

Thanks for the heads up, that was entertaining!

Perhaps the funniest moment was when the "doctor" called in and informed everyone that the ducks involved in foie gras production are clearly diseased, as a fattened liver is a sign of disease in humans.

Presumably waddling is also a sign of disease in humans?

←

Have they come up with a cure for the webbed-toes that those poor unfortunate ducks are afflicted with?

Oh, and back to food media - Matt's blog is pretty cool... love the bakery photos.

Edited June 6, 2007 by philadining (log)