holiday break in philly

[-sheila mooney]

my daughter and i are homing in on dec 22-24: 2 nights at loews philadelphia hotel (they're my client) and our aim is to shop, chat and eat before heading out to see friends /family for the holidays. last year we stayed at sofitel and ate at rouge, la colombe, happy rooster, amada and sansom street oyster house (dinner, breakfast. lunch, etc). it was a blast. this year i'm thinking snack bar? raw sushi? and maybe a stop at dante and luigi's where my father used to take me... suggestions? (daughter = almost 20). thank you philadelphia! i'll return the favor when you come to montreal...

[TarteTatin]

Well, you hit most of the high spots already.

If you want some even more eclectic dining experiences, head for the Reading Terminal Market and have breakfast at the Dutch Eating Place, then lunch at DeNics - get the hand carved pork sandwich - and then go to HanZhou Hand Drawn Noodle House on Race Street. Get the Fried Soy Sauce noodles and watch the guy in the back make your noodles.

In addition, try Standard Tap at 2nd and Poplar. Have the duck salad, the octupus (best in Philly, and just about anything on the menu. You could also try Full Plate Cafe at Liberties Walk - also in Northern Liberties - It's a BYO. Go bowling at North Bowl, but don't eat the food there.

Also try to eat at Django, 4th and South Streets. It's one of the best BYOB's in town. Try the oyster po boy at Grace's Tavern, 23rd and South.

Edited December 12, 2006 by TarteTatin (log)

[philadining]

If you're staying at the Loews, you're very close to the Reading Terminal Market, which is kind of a required visit for foodies, whether you eat anything or not! But while you're there, you certainly should get a sandwich at DiNic's, at least...

Just out the back side of the market is Chinatown, and there are indeed some noteworthy places there, depending on your tastes and what kinds of things you two are in the mood for. I heartily agree that Nan Zhou has terrific noodles, and they're cheap too, so it's a great place for a quick meal. But in the end, it's just a bowl of noodles (and pretty meat-centric if that makes a difference) and that doesn't always thrill. But in that neighborhood there's also Rangoon for really good Burmese food, which is not too common, but as it resembles Thai Indian and Chinese, it's alway been popular with guests I've taken there. There's also Penang and Banana Leaf for good Malaysian, which is kind-of treading a similar culinary zone.

I'm a big fan of snackbar, it's definitely a good spot for some culinary fireworks. (It's in the Rittenhouse Square area, a few blocks from Rouge and La Colombe, not TOO far from your hotel.) Get two or three things each, and try some of the stuff that sounds weird, it's really quite delicious! It can get very crowded on weekend nights, and it's a tiny place, so go early or late if you can.

Ansill (3rd and Bainbridge) is also doing the creative small-plate thing, maybe not quite as daring as snackbar, but still quite good. Amada is still excellent, but you did that already....

I'm not sure what you were looking for at Raw sushi, but just for the record, Greg Ling has left the kitchen, so the hot side of the menu is likely to be different from when many of us were first raving about it. Sushi chef Sam is still there, so the sushi's likely to still be good. For better or worse, it's a bit of a clubby scene later at night, especially on weekends. Not to start any arguments, but in my opinion Philly's not a fantastic sushi town. There's plenty of good sushi, but we do other things better...

Dante and Luigi's has gotten buffed-up a bit since your father took you there, but it's essentially the same, in fact eating in the bar area feels like nothing's changed. There are a few fancy things on the menu, but it's largely still those South Philly traditional favorites, and you could do worse. It's never at the top of my list of Italian places, but it's not bad at all, I had a good meal there the last time I was there, which might have been about a year or so ago. It's not likely to be a huge culinary thrill, but it will be decent, and if there's some nostalgia involved, you probably won't be disappointed. It's a little fancier than Ralph's, Villa di Roma or Marra's, but only a little, and any of those places can give you some comforting, homey, hearty Italian-American food.

TarteTatin referred to a couple other strengths of the Philly scene: brewpubs and creative small chef-owned BYOB restaurants. The Standard Tap is certainly the standard-bearer for the brewpub - good food, funky bohemian atmosphere, great beers, although I don't know how appealing that is for you, with your not-quite 20 daughter. The oyster po-boy might be good at Grace Tavern, but the place itself is a bit gloomy, and more of a neighborhood place than a destination in and of itself.

For BYOBs, as mentioned Django is doing good creative food, as is Matyson, Marigold, Mandoline, Melograno.... pick any restaurant whose name starts with M.

But most importantly, even if it's snowing (ah, it'll be tropical compared to Montreal!) go get gelato at Capogiro. It's only a few blocks from your hotel, at 13th and Sansom. There's another one at 20th and Sansom if you find yourself up that way and in need of an infusion.

If you want a specifically Philly experience: get a sandwich at DiNic's maybe get a hoagie at Carmen's or Saulmeria, all in the RTM. Get some South Philly red-gravy Italian, Dante and Luigi's will do. Eat at a gastropub - Standard Tap is an excellent choice. Have a creative meal at a BYOB like Django.

If a foodie friend was visiting me, I'd take them to snackbar for sure. We'd probably hit the places already mentioned in Chinatown. We'd probably go get Tacos in South Philly. If we were feeling rich, we might spend a few hours and almost $100 each at sunday brunch at Lacroix. If not a full meal, we'd go have a glass of wine and a few plates at Ansill. Maybe a dinner at one of the BYOBs.

Others will chime in, but it seems like you did pretty well last time, so you're good at patrolling eGullet, or just lucky in picking them out on the spot!

Is there something you feel like you're lacking in Montreal? Any real favorite foods for you or your daughter that you don't get easily at home?

[herbacidal]

I'm not sure what you were looking for at Raw sushi, but just for the record, Greg Ling has left the kitchen, so the hot side of the menu is likely to be different from when many of us were first raving about it. Sushi chef Sam is still there, so the sushi's likely to still be good.  For better or worse, it's a bit of a clubby scene later at night, especially on weekends.  Not to start any arguments, but in my opinion Philly's not a fantastic sushi town. There's plenty of good sushi, but we do other things better...

←

As I understand it, Sam takes most of his sushi down a notch.

He's fully capable of creating more interesting stuff, just let him know that that's what you want.

There's more than a few older threads with commentary that sushi here is not up to par with certain other cities, and I'd agree with it.

I think it's more because the audience overall isn't demanding ithe high level of sushi skill (perhaps because they're not as educated about it), so the chefs aren't giving it. Have to please the market, or they'll vote with their feet.

And that's fine, there's other areas in which the culinary scene is more than adequate.

If anyone wants to debate the issue further, I'll see if I can dig up one of the old threads and we can continue it there.

[Bluehensfan]

I would second the votes for a trip to the Reading Terminal Market and specifically the Dutch Eating Place for breakfast (but they are only open on the 22nd and the 23rd) including pancakes, scrapple, and home fries. I agree that DiNic's at the market is also great but stick with the roast pork sandwich with greens and provolone, since I think the pulled pork and brisket are not quite as good. They also have very good soft pretzels at the market at Fisher's (also only open on the 22nd and 23rd) that are light and airy unlike most soft pretzels that you will find in town. If you are looking for something sweet, try the pastries at Termini's at the market or pick up a cinnamon bun or apple fritter from Bleiler's.

While Nan Zhou in Chinatown has very good hand pulled noodles, it is a bit of a dive and the things that they put in the soup with the noodles (we tried duck, brisket, and seafood versions) are often fatty and/or bony. Granted, the noodle soup is great on a cold day.

If you are looking for something warm while venturing out I would recommend the Naked Chocolate Cafe on 13th and Juniper (about two blocks south of the Loews) for hot chocolate, handcrafted chocolates, and my favorite, the orionoco ganache if they have it that day.

Snackbar has been getting a number of favorable reviews but I have not been there yet, but it seems to be the place to go for foodies along with Ansill.

Edited December 12, 2006 by Bluehensfan (log)

[mrbigjas]

While Nan Zhou in Chinatown has very good hand pulled noodles, it is a bit of a dive and the things that they put in the soup with the noodles (we tried duck, brisket, and seafood versions) are often fatty and/or bony. Granted, the noodle soup is great on a cold day.

i still say that if there's anything more difficult to eat without ruining your shirt than duck on the bone in broth with hand-pulled noodles, i have yet to see it.

if you are in south philadelphia to shop at the vietnamese markets or see the italian market or whatever, one place that is often overlooked is cafe de laos, which is a thai and laotian restaurant on 11th street just south of washington. it's got good food on the thai side of the menu, but the real interesting stuff that hasn't really been widely available before in this city is on the laotian side. the dishes are still hot, but veer towards the sour rather than the sweet and have less coconut milk. very good stuff. byob.

[MarketStEl]

If you are looking for something warm while venturing out I would recommend the Naked Chocolate Cafe on 13th and Juniper (about two blocks south of the Loews)

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...um, Juniper and Walnut.

The place is just around the (half) block from the 13th Street (er, "Midtown Village") restaurant cluster that includes Raw, Lolita, El Vez, and another must-visit for dessert, and I don't care that it's cold this time of year: Capogiro.

Edited December 12, 2006 by MarketStEl (log)

[Bluehensfan]

If you are looking for something warm while venturing out I would recommend the Naked Chocolate Cafe on 13th and Juniper (about two blocks south of the Loews)

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...um, Juniper and Walnut.

The place is just around the (half) block from the 13th Street (er, "Midtown Village") restaurant cluster that includes Raw, Lolita, El Vez, and another must-visit for dessert, and I don't care that it's cold this time of year: Capogiro.

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Uh yeah, that's where it is...I don't look at street signs, I just follow my nose for the smell of chocolate (which is oddly not there)

[philadining]

i still say that if there's anything more difficult to eat without ruining your shirt than duck on the bone in broth with hand-pulled noodles, i have yet to see it.

←

I have a nominee: the spare rib noodle soup at Nan Zhou, which actually consists of two good-sized pork chops, on the bone, floating in a bowl of broth, with noodles. Tasty, but not pretty to eat. In fact with all of those noodle soups, I'm continually in peril of ruining my shirt, as well as the entire outfit of the person sitting across from me. Sorry...

That may be why Tartetatin suggested the fried soy sauce noodles (which they've re-named to something slightly more logical, like "fried pork noodle in soy sauce") because it's one of the few that's not in a broth, it's more of a plate of noodles with a really good meat sauce on it. Still a little messy, but really good.

And it's absolutely true that Nan Zhou is a bit of a dive, but sometimes that's just the right thing.

[Bluehensfan]

i still say that if there's anything more difficult to eat without ruining your shirt than duck on the bone in broth with hand-pulled noodles, i have yet to see it.

←

I have a nominee: the spare rib noodle soup at Nan Zhou, which actually consists of two good-sized pork chops, on the bone, floating in a bowl of broth, with noodles. Tasty, but not pretty to eat. In fact with all of those noodle soups, I'm continually in peril of ruining my shirt, as well as the entire outfit of the person sitting across from me. Sorry...

That may be why Tartetatin suggested the fried soy sauce noodles (which they've re-named to something slightly more logical, like "fried pork noodle in soy sauce") because it's one of the few that's not in a broth, it's more of a plate of noodles with a really good meat sauce on it. Still a little messy, but really good.

And it's absolutely true that Nan Zhou is a bit of a dive, but sometimes that's just the right thing.

←

I thought that my duck soup there was tasty but to separate the fatty duck skin and bone from the small pieces of meat in the bottom of a bowl using a set of chopsticks and one of those ivory colored large soup spoons while not getting noodles everywhere in the process was well, humorous.

I know that the brisket version had no bone (but alas a healthy dose of fat).

The seafood version did have a clam (and shell) and shrimp (and tail) as well as boneless, fatless scallops and fish balls (whatever they were ) but was not quite as tasty as the other versions. Still it was a lot of fun and we'd go back. They could sell lobster bibs here and make a good buck or two though, but for $4 or $5 for a hearty bowl of soup it's hard to complain.

[-sheila mooney]

you are so generous with your time and wisdom! greatly appreciated...

-sheila

[-sheila mooney]

If you're staying at the Loews, you're very close to the Reading Terminal Market, which is kind of a required visit for foodies, whether you eat anything or not!  But while you're there, you certainly should get a sandwich at DiNic's, at least...

Just out the back side of the market is Chinatown, and there are indeed some noteworthy places there, depending on your tastes and what kinds of things you two are in the mood for.  I heartily agree that Nan Zhou has terrific noodles, and they're cheap too, so it's a great place for a quick meal. But in the end, it's just a bowl of noodles (and pretty meat-centric if that makes a difference) and that doesn't always thrill.  But in that neighborhood there's also Rangoon for really good Burmese food, which is not too common, but as it resembles Thai Indian and Chinese, it's alway been popular with guests I've taken there.  There's also Penang and Banana Leaf for good Malaysian, which is kind-of treading a similar culinary zone.

I'm a big fan of snackbar, it's definitely a good spot for some culinary fireworks. (It's in the Rittenhouse Square area, a few blocks from Rouge and La Colombe, not TOO far from your hotel.) Get two or three things each, and try some of the stuff that sounds weird, it's really quite delicious!  It can get very crowded on weekend nights, and it's a tiny place, so go early or late if you can.

Ansill (3rd and Bainbridge) is also doing the creative small-plate thing, maybe not quite as daring as snackbar, but still quite good. Amada is still excellent, but you did that already....

I'm not sure what you were looking for at Raw sushi, but just for the record, Greg Ling has left the kitchen, so the hot side of the menu is likely to be different from when many of us were first raving about it. Sushi chef Sam is still there, so the sushi's likely to still be good.  For better or worse, it's a bit of a clubby scene later at night, especially on weekends.  Not to start any arguments, but in my opinion Philly's not a fantastic sushi town. There's plenty of good sushi, but we do other things better...

Dante and Luigi's has gotten buffed-up a bit since your father took you there, but it's essentially the same, in fact eating in the bar area feels like nothing's changed.  There are a few fancy things on the menu, but it's largely still those South Philly traditional favorites, and you could do worse. It's never at the top of my list of Italian places, but it's not bad at all, I had a good meal there the last time I was there, which might have been about a year or so ago. It's not likely to be a huge culinary thrill, but it will be decent, and if there's some nostalgia involved, you probably won't be disappointed.  It's a little fancier than Ralph's, Villa di Roma or Marra's, but only a little, and any of those places can give you some comforting, homey, hearty Italian-American food.

TarteTatin referred to a couple other strengths of the Philly scene: brewpubs and creative small chef-owned BYOB restaurants.  The Standard Tap is certainly the standard-bearer for the brewpub - good food, funky bohemian atmosphere, great beers, although I don't know how appealing that is for you, with your not-quite 20 daughter.  The oyster po-boy might be good at Grace Tavern, but the place itself is a bit gloomy, and more of a neighborhood place than a destination in and of itself.

For BYOBs, as mentioned Django is doing good creative food, as is Matyson, Marigold, Mandoline,  Melograno.... pick any restaurant whose name starts with M.

But most importantly, even if it's snowing (ah, it'll be tropical compared to Montreal!) go get gelato at Capogiro.  It's only a few blocks from your hotel, at 13th and Sansom.  There's another one at 20th and Sansom if you find yourself up that way and in need of an infusion.

If you want a specifically Philly experience: get a sandwich at DiNic's maybe get a hoagie at Carmen's or Saulmeria, all in the RTM.  Get some South Philly red-gravy Italian, Dante and Luigi's will do.  Eat at a gastropub - Standard Tap is an excellent choice. Have a creative meal at a BYOB like Django. 

If a foodie friend was visiting me, I'd take them to snackbar for sure.  We'd probably hit the places already mentioned in Chinatown. We'd probably go get Tacos in South Philly. If we were feeling rich, we might spend a few hours and almost $100 each at sunday brunch at Lacroix.  If not a full meal, we'd go have a glass of wine and a few plates at Ansill.  Maybe a dinner at one of the BYOBs. 

Others will chime in, but it seems like you did pretty well last time, so you're good at patrolling eGullet, or just lucky in picking them out on the spot! 

Is there something you feel like you're lacking in Montreal? Any real favorite foods for you or your daughter that you don't get easily at home?

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the thing i miss from philly (i lived in paris from 1982 to 2003) is (besides the ambiance)... scrapple! that sunday morning staple of my yout'.

[KatieLoeb]

the thing i miss from philly (i lived in paris from 1982 to 2003) is (besides the ambiance)... scrapple! that sunday morning staple of my yout'.

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Breakfast at The Down Home Diner at RTM ought to satify that jones. And it's practically across the street from your hotel. Well, OK - across the street and half a block up. Conveniently located scrapple. What more could a girl ask for?

All the suggestions you've gotten are excellent ones. Poke around in the PA forum and see which places we're all buzzing about. snackbar certainly is the latest place to get our attention, but there's plenty of places, new and old alike depending on what you're in the mood for. If you haven't had any really good authentic Mexican cuisine then a trip to La Puebla or Jose's might be in order. Not fancy in the least, in fact, downright divey by some folks standards, but really really good food. For "red gravy" Italian, I'm partial to Villa di Roma. Cheap chianti from a jug and really great heaping plates of pasta. You can't go wrong. Any one of a number of BYOB restaurants would be fun and the PLCB store at 12th & Chestnut has a great stock of the Chairman's Selection bargains we all love so much. To quote Billy Joel, you can grab "a bottle of red, a bottle of white" and have a grand evening almost anywhere.

[-sheila mooney]

katie, thanks for the invaluable info -- the address of the nearest state store! duly noted!!

[KatieLoeb]

Not just any State Store, but possibly one of the better ones, aka a "Specialty Store" Always an excellent gamut of Chairman's Selections and well stocked shelves of spirits and cordials of the harder to find varieties. Open until 9:00PM every evening as well as 12:00-5:00PM on Sundays.

Premium Collection Store

1218 CHESTNUT ST

PHILADELPHIA PA, 19107-5410

Phone: 215.560.4380