Must club food always suck?

[Fat Guy]

It it possible to have good food at a private club, or is the deck stacked completely in favor of mediocrity and blandness?

[mamster]

Now, if I were in a club like that, why would I tell you?

[Fat Guy]

Yeah, but you know me. There are people out there -- a few, though no names come to mind -- who take me seriously. Suckers.

[ngatti]

It it possible to have good food at a private club, or is the deck stacked completely in favor of mediocrity and blandness?

Of course it's possible. But it takes a terrifically talented, dynamic, and experienced Chef to pull it off. One with the palate of a Bocuse and the organizational skills of Division logistics officer. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that it helps if the Chef is extraordinarily good looking too!

It's an interesting question, and I'd like to give it more thought, perhaps after a good nights sleep, before responding in earnest.

Nick

[ngatti]

Typical Club Food. Comments welcome.

August 2 & 3, 2002

APPETIZERS

Shrimp Cocktail 14.

Wellfleet Clams on the ½ Shell; Mignonette and Cocktail Sauce 12.

Peeky Toe Crab Roll; Small Greens and Saffron Aioli 13.

Seared Foie Gras; White Cherry Conserve 15.

Jersey Tomato, Mozzarella, Montrachet and Herbs with Tuscan Olive Oil 10.

Steamed Mussels in Spicy Tomato Broth with Spanish Chorizo 10.

Steak Carpaccio A La Harry’s Bar 11.

Ruby Red Shrimp in Red Chili Vinaigrette; Crisp Noodles and Grilled Scallion 12.

SALADS

Tri-Color

Arugula, Radicchio & Endive

Fresh Mozzarella, Roasted Tomatoes

& Balsamic Vinaigrette

11.

California Field Greens; Mixed Baby Lettuces with Sliced Tomato & Lemon Vinaigrette 8.

Mixed Greens; Green Leaf Lettuce, Watercress, Radicchio & Tomato Wedges4.

Caesar Salad; Romaine Lettuce, Parmesan Crisp & Shaved Parmesan4.

Alpine Chopped Salad; Chopped Green Leaf Lettuce, Watercress, Radicchio, Chopped Cucumber & Tomato4.

(Iceberg may be substituted for all Lettuces)

(Other chopped trimmings available; carrots, onions, radish)

All salads may be chopped upon request

TONIGHT’S SELECTIONS

Pan Roasted Cod – 23.

Set in a Rich Fennel Broth, with pancetta Crisp, Grilled Baby Zucchini and Basil Mashed Potatoes

Recommended Wine: Marina Danieli2000 Pinot Bianco

Grilled Florida Pompano – 24.

Tomato Mango Salsa, Mashed Yucca and Plantain Crisps

Recommended Wine: Domaine Delaye2000 Macon-Prisse

Broiled Maine Sea Scallops – 23.

Simply Presented with Butter Sauce, Potato Frites and; Charred Asparagus

Recommended Wine: Grand Cuvee Fournier1999 Sancerre

Breaded Veal Chop Milanese – 32.

Arugula, Tomato and Red Onion Salad

Recommended Wine: Treehouse,1999 Cabernet Merlot

French Cut Breast of Chicken – 19.

Wrapped in Serrano Ham with Merguez Sausage and Cous Cous

Recommended: Coppola2000 Syrah

Seared Duck Magret – 22.

Dried Cherry Sauce and Soft Parmesan Polenta

Recommended: Firesteed2000 Pinot Noir

A Plate of Seasonal Market Vegetables – 15.

With Heirloom Tomatoes, Small Roasted Vegetables, Eggplant Caviar and

Montrachet; Dressed with Tuscan Olive Oil and Fig Vinegar Syrup

Signature Specialties

Alaskan Salmon – 20.

Lemon Roasted Potatoes

and L’Ancienne Mustard Beurre Blanc

Recommended Wine: Domaine Delaye

2000 Macon-Prisse

Giannone Chicken Roasted From the Rotisserie – 17.

Garlic Mashed Potatoes, Seasonal Vegetables & Cranberry Chutney

Recommended Wine: Coppola2000 Syrah

Grilled Veal Rib Chop – 32.

Roasted Sweet Onion, Dried Tomato & Grilled Asparagus

Recommended Wine: Whispering Peak 1998 Cabernet Sauvignon

USDA Prime New YorkShell Steak – 32.

Potato Frites, Thick Sliced Tomato & Onion

Recommended Wine: Gallo1998 Merlot

Triple Cut Lamb Chops – 32.

Garlic Mashed Potatoes & Seasonal Vegetables

Recommended Wine: Treehouse1999 Cabernet Merlot

Due to the current drought emergency,

water will only be served on request.

[Fat Guy]

That menu is far ahead of the club curve, judging by my experience. But the real question is what do people actually order? How many orders of pompano get sold versus the steak-salmon-chicken items? Do people order their sauces on the side and their steaks well done? What's the lunch menu like?

That's obviously a club at the stronger end of the spectrum -- the chef participates on eGullet for crying out loud -- but for a typical club there are some even more probing questions to be asked: Is there a can of chicken chow mein and a box of Chinese noodles, or some other awful thing the membership insists on, in the kitchen? Do the sous-chefs and line cooks have the competence of a real restaurant team or are they high-school kids doing summer jobs? How are the ingredients, for example is the fish frozen? You get the idea.

[anil]

It it possible to have good food at a private club, or is the deck stacked completely in favor of mediocrity and blandness?

What clubs were you refering to ?

In Mumbai, clubs rather than resturants have/had better food. A tradition going back to the colonial times. IN NYC, when I was based in mid-town, we'd go sometime to Princeton Club or Harvard Club where food was not that great.

[Simon Majumdar]

There are a range of mid level clubs in London that actually do rather good food

These include

The Agency ( my own hideout )

The Green Room

Two Bridges

I would not claim the menus to innovative in any of them but the food is fresh and well prepared. Frederich, the chef at The Agency makes the finest soups I have ever tasted and also the best chips in London BAR NONE.

Another level of club ( Groucho, Soho House, Teatro ) sell themselves more as eating places, but you have to put up with the fact that most of the clientele is actively odious

S

[Robert Schonfeld]

Is there a can of chicken chow mein and a box of Chinese noodles, or some other awful thing the membership insists on, in the kitchen?

Like canned cling peaches with a scoop of cottage cheese? You know it, FG.

Club restaurants exist largely to satisfy the (very clearly expressed) preferences of the membership. Basically, the message is: keep it simple. A chef who is motivated might make an effort at excellence within the confining parameters set quite rigidly by his regulars, but attempts at real creativity or ideas about waking the palates of sleeping dinosaurs will receive scant tolerance.

I hear the Knickerbocker in New York has a good dining room. Never been. Anyone know the quality of the food at different clubs in New York City?

[Kim WB]

Here is the glory of suburbia ( and I know how highly many of you feel about the burbs) there are different levels of clubs...in my Princeton area, there is Jasna Polana ( excellent), Green Acres CC, ( updated, good food) and then there is the Trenton CC ( iceberg wtih Russian dressing).

All are dedicated to golf and business, with food as an afterthought. ( The level of golf is comparable to the level of food, which is comparable

to the cost, by the way. Jasna is 50k membership, 20k a year dues, )

I suspect that whether you are a member of a suburban golf club, or a city University club, the focus is camraderie and not food, hence the more simple menus.

[CathyL]

I hear the Knickerbocker in New York has a good dining room. Never been. Anyone know the quality of the food at different clubs in New York City?

I've had a few business lunches at the Knickerbocker Club. Slightly stuffy traditional dishes, overcooked and underseasoned. Saltines in the bread basket.

[Robert Schonfeld]

I hear the Knickerbocker in New York has a good dining room. Never been. Anyone know the quality of the food at different clubs in New York City?

I've had a few business lunches at the Knickerbocker Club. Slightly stuffy traditional dishes, overcooked and underseasoned. Saltines in the bread basket.

So much for them.

Would anyone choose to eat in a private club once in a while versus a restaurant in New York City? Which one?

[Steve Plotnicki]

That juice bar at the Paradise Garage used to be good.

[Fat Guy]

Wow you're really dating yourself.

[Gavin Jones]

Wow you're really dating yourself.

StevenS, who better for SteveP to date?

[tommy]

the food at my country club is really starting to get to me.

[Beachfan]

Here at the Red Carpet club, I got Yoplait. Within the freshness date too.

[ngatti]

Here is the glory of suburbia ( and I know how highly many of you feel about the burbs) there are different levels of clubs...in my Princeton area, there is Jasna Polana ( excellent), Green Acres CC, ( updated, good food) and then there is the Trenton CC ( iceberg wtih Russian dressing).

All are dedicated to golf and business, with food as an afterthought. ( The level of golf is comparable  to the level of food, which is comparable

to the cost, by the way. Jasna is 50k membership, 20k a year dues, )

I suspect that whether you are a member of a suburban golf club, or a city University club, the focus is camraderie and not food, hence the more simple menus.

You raise a salient point, Kim, which must be kept at the fore during any discussion on this subject. Clubs (including food) are defined by the collective membership.

Nick

[Fat Guy]

Right. A restaurant can exist in a metropolitan area of 10 million potential customers and if a few dozen of them come to the restaurant each night it can continue to exist. A club restaurant has a potential audience of a few hundred or a few thousand people at most, and it must satisfy a high enough percentage of those people to get the same number of customers each night as the restaurant with the 10-million-potential-customer base. Since many of those club members are people who don't engage in fine dining while out in the general population, and many of the other club members enjoy fine dining but wouldn't do it at a club, it's a problem.

[Steve Plotnicki]

We can discuss the Paradise Garage in a different thread. Save to say it was the pinnacle club experience. Les Bains Douches in Paris was also good for awhile. but again for a different thread.

Well I think the answer to this is that someone should start an Urban Goumet Club, begun solely for the purpose of counteracting those negative food vibes that emanate from suburban country clubs. You know like the Tastevin or the other wine clubs are. This one can be for food.

[Fat Guy]

Why would anybody want such a club?

[Wilfrid]

Something I discussed briefly with Nick over a glass at Zum Schneider: some of the limitations on what a club chef can do seem to me analogous with limitations on what a corporate chef can do - about which i know slightly more. A very limited clientele, as Steven observed; not necessarily adventurous eaters; perhaps saving their exciting meals for restaurant dining; not looking for any surprises. Is that fair, Nick?

[Steve Plotnicki]

Because the level of experience they desire might not be available in local restaurants. Or might be available but only on a case by case, special occassion basis.

[Fat Guy]

But certainly that's not the case in New York. It seems to me that, in any place where there is sufficient demand for a higher level of restaurant, and people are willing to pay for it, such a restaurant will open to serve that market. Historically, the trouble restaurateurs have is, if anything, building such markets. At least in the US, I don't know of a single example of a place where the people are demanding better restaurants than they have in sufficient numbers to justify such restaurants let alone private clubs.

[Steve Plotnicki]

But the point is that people like Daniel Boulud and Jean-Georges can produce a better quality meal than you can get at their restaurants. And if people are willing to pay astronomical prices for a different level of refinement, that's where a club like that would come in. Robert B. mentioned this recently on one of his threads about people having private chefs come into their home. This is just a variation.