What do you think of skate?

[John Whiting]

Cooking and serving skate on the bone, I think, makes a discernable difference in flavor. I find it one of the easiest fish to eat from the bone because the upper and lower fillets are not connected to each other and so lift away neatly. The bones, even the small ones, are large in diameter, very smooth, and easy to separate from the flesh. Try tackling a red or gray mullet; now there's a job for Job -- much patience required.

[Basildog]

WE have sold a ton of skate over the years, mostly done in the classic "margot" way of seared in a hot pan, with garlic, rosemary and anchovy and baked in the oven with a little fish stock.Finished with a knob of unsalted butter.We have always served in on the bone, as John says, easy to eat, just peel of some with a fork.Its an absolute bastard to skin, tho'.Solution to this is to sear it skin side down. then peel off the cooked skin,when you start to cook it.My fishmonger in Newlyn has a funnky machine that does it.th Padstow guy has a board with a nail and a pair of pliers

[southern girl]

Question: Since skate and shark are of the same family, would soaking the skate in milk (like we did in FL with shark) neutralize (I don't know if that would be the right term) the ammonia taste like it does in shark?

[ngatti]

Sorry to disagree , but the amoinia smell gets stronger over time.Its the urine in the flesh decomposing.Very very fresh skate will cook up with a strange texture, but the smell comes later.Skate is also the only fish with a menstrual cycle(so i,m told)

Thanks BD. I was starting to scratch my head over that one and was about to ask Sandra for a reference. My experience was yours. Delivered on wedsnday, I thought it was very fresh. A faint ammonia smell developed by friday, which told me that the fish was older than I thought when recieved on Weds. By Saturday it smelled like a Kitty Litter box. The smell did NOT disappear.

Tough to tell on receipt as I take the fish peeled. I have since switched venders and no longer have any problems with skate quality.

Nick

[cabrales]

I wonder if "raie" in French refers to skate as described in this thread.

[Bux]

Under "Ray," my copy of the Larousse Gastronomique (English translation) says see "skate." Under "Skate or Ray," raie is offered as the French translation. This is interesting:

The skin of the skate is covered with a viscous coating which continues to reform itself for 10 hours after death, so that it is  possible by wiping the fish with a cloth and observing whether or not the coating reforms to judge how fresh it is. The skate is the only fish which gains from being slightly 'high,' though this should not be allowed to get to the point were the smell alters.

I wonder how many of us might have access to fresh skate less than ten hours after it is caught. According to the book, skate can be found in shops already skinned, but not in France.

[Suzanne F]

Mais oui, exactement, Mlle. Fromage bleu d'espagne! Les deux sont le meme poisson. Sorry, I've not figured out how to get the nececessary accents.

Bux: if it's high but the smell isn't altered, how high could it be? (yeah, well, Larousse is a little self-contradictory at times.) Anyway, I'll be Eric Ripert can get it less than 10 hours out of the water. When I was externing there, we would sometimes get turbot via FedEx.

[Bux]

My edition is from 1961. I understand later editions have improvements.

If they bother to differentiate among the first ten hours it's out of water, I assume freshness is important. I wouldn't bet against Ripert getting it in alive in a tank if he thought it was important, though I can't say it's one of the fish I've seen sold alive in Chinatown. I suspect the freshest skate I can get in Manahttan as a consumer would be in the Greenmarket. I wonder if any is less than ten hours out of the water. In any event, I wasn't thinking of the really top restaurant kitchens or restaurant kitchens in general.

[Sandra Levine]

Just checked my 1988 Larousse Gastronomique. The article talks about the skin, etc., as above, then continues, "It should be washed several times to get rid of the smell of ammonia, which is most marked when the fish is quite fresh."

I knew I saw that somewhere! I reiterate, rather than worrying how many hours ago the fish was swimming, smell it. The nose knows.

[it aint easy being cheesy]

Skate is easy to skin in the same way as any other fish. The ammonia smell with age increases no matter what larouse says. Also soaking it in milk doesn't totally remove the smell and the texture issue is still there. Its not supposed to taste like ammonia. Your crazy if you think so. If its gross its not meant to be eaten.

[ngatti]

The last time I ran skate it was Fed Exed from Maine (maybe RI). Stuff was impeccable. Compared to what the commercial venders scrounge from the market there was no comparison. This stuff had legs too! It arrived via Fed Ex late Friday afternoon, by Sunday there was no discernible oder or degradation.

Nick

[Nockerl]

Skate is one of my all-time favorite fish. I love to saute is with a porcini crust the serve it with some browned butter. Very simple but the flavor of the fish marries so wonderfully with the earthy porcini. The butter just takes it to another level.

[Beachfan]

When I said I thought I was served Ray at Tabla, I meant something other than a skate. Not all rays are skates. I think Tommy and I were served a Manta Ray.

I couldn't find the perfect reference but here is one:

Nerdy elasmobranch web site

which says

The batoids (electric rays, sawfishes, guitarfishes, skates and stingrays) are the largest putative monophyletic group of the chondrichthyans. Between 477 and 486 of the 859 to 868 estimated species of chondrichthyans are batoids. The five subgroups of batoids are clearly distinct from one another and each is generally considered to be monophyletic, although no synapomorphies are known for the guitarfishes. Lack of consensus as to the phylogenetic relationships among the five subgroups is due less to the paucity of anatomical information on the taxa than to the great distinctiveness of each of the subgroups. The subgroups share common batoid synapomorphies but share little in the way of obvious derived character states with other subgroups. Lack of synapomorphies among subsets of the five subgroups hinders an outgroup approach to elucidation of the phylogenetic interrelationships.

[tommy]

When I said I thought I was served Ray at Tabla, I meant something other than a skate.  Not all rays are skates.  I think Tommy and I were served a Manta Ray.

the menu said skate. is it common for the old, and excuse the pun, bait and switch with ray and skate?

[Beachfan]

No. But as you can see from the other posts, skate is usually tender on the bone (or cartiledge). Mine felt like hard labor.

I think the purveyor passed something off on them. It was just a little larger in diameter, but much, much thicker than what I'm used to. Like triple at the part that would have been closest to the spine.

[chopjwu12]

First thing is i didn't think manta ray is edible but maybe im wrong. Anyqway manta ray skin is black and skate's skin is gray.

As to the question of how many of us have had skate less then 10 hours old? ME

I catch them off the beach all the time. Fresh there is no amonia smell or taste to my knowledge. None that i ever experienced. We cook it many different ways in my family. On the bone usualy but i love it aoff the bone as well. Its easy to eat on the bone because it all slides off the bone. But i eat the hole thing since the bones are edible and have a nice crunch factor. But thats just me.

Now french have a theory on skate. They say it should be aged 2-3 days before its eaten. I personally disagree and still say fresh is best.

[Adam Balic]

Cabrales - there are many species involved and what the French prize may not be the same as what is sold in te USA. I will look at my fish notes tonight to come up with a name for you. In Australia Skate/ray is (mostly) sold as portions of the wings and are about 7 cm thick. In Scotland you get the entire wing, which is rather thin without much meat.

[Beachfan]

First thing is i didn't think manta ray is edible but maybe im wrong. Anyqway manta ray skin is black and skate's skin is gray.

You are correct. It isn't edible. Neither was my serving at Tabla.

It's a huge monster of the deep (actually gentle). I was making a humorous comment.

[chopjwu12]

lol i was thinking what the hell is this guy talking about when you made that manta ray comment.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

As far as I can tell, the raie I eat in France and the skate I eat in restaurants in the US are the same. In addition, it is the same as the skinned-but-not-boned skate I buy from $7./lb to $12./lb at two local upscale fishmongers, and as the skin-on, bone-in skate I buy from my Chinese fishmarket for $1.60/lb. They are all some of my favorite seafoods.

I cook it on the bone (cartilage, rather) as well as bone it out, which takes only seconds, as does removing the skin. Skate does have a different texture from most fish, and for this reason is often called "poor-man's crab"; it does break apart into long filaments rather than flakes (like sea bass) or firm flesh (like Pacific halibut). It is boned out most easily, either raw or cooked, by simply running the knife between the cartilage and flesh before cutting into serving or bite sized pieces.

It smells like the sea. It should never smell ammoniac; if it does, it is too old to eat.

[Basildog]

Just to say that all this talk about Skate, has made me order some. Will be on the menu Thursday.

[Sandra Levine]

Just to say that all this talk about Skate, has made me order some. Will be on the menu Thursday.

Wish I were there.

[Stone]

I love skate. I find it's texture similar to a thin hanger steak. The only time I didn't love it was, surprisingly, at Le Bernardin. It was in a thin rasberry sauce that was almost a sweet vinegrette. Bad choice for me. But lighted floured and sauteed in butter -- excellent.

[eunny jang]

I am resurrecting this old topic because I saw skate for $1.99/lb at the fish market this weekend, and have been dying to purchase some and cook it. The only way I've eaten skate, though, is as raw sashimi in Korean naeng-myun bowls. Can anyone answer some questions for a cooked-skate neophyte?

1) What I've gleaned from this thread is that quality can be really hit-and-miss. I guess, if it smells bad don't buy it. Any more specific tips? Should I buy it and cook it the same day?

2) How do I skin it? The skate I saw had the skin on. If I bread it and fry it, I'd have to do that after skinning, right?

3) Simple preparations? I've gotten some good ideas from this thread, but would like more details from anyone who has a favorite recipe. Au beurre noir-ish, or more complex preparations? What would complement the cooked flavor of the flesh? I'm used to chile paste and vinegar for the sashimi.

[MichaelB]

Like many others who have replied to this thread, I love skate. To answer your questions:

Smell is often not a good indicator as really fresh skate will often have a bit of an ammonia smell. Best to buy from a trusted fishmonger. If your storage conditions are good, you can keep it a couple of days -- at least.

It isn't all that tough to skin. Skin it as any other fish fillet. Just remember to use a towel to hold the loose skin. The slime makes it slippery and if your hand slips, the barbs will give you a nasty little cut.

I have served skate with many different garnishes. I enjoy the classic beurre noisette with capers. I also really like a skate salad with apple -- sauteed skate over your favorite greens, diced apple, maybe some fennel with an apple vinaigrette.