BBQ in NNJ

[Jason Perlow]

I am not a staff member of the NYT and I do not write "reviews" nor do I have a regular column. See my response on the other thread.

[tsure]

I'm going on a trip in two weeks to search out good barbecue.

Actually it's really a business trip to Austin but I will try to do a barbecue crawl/review while I am there.  I got the craving...

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6th Street (Ave?)...lots of bars, lots of music, lots of BBQ...lucky bugger!!!

[richl2214]

I assumed you were referring to my "oooh" comment and you were casting an aspersion to my relationship to Silver Oak and insinuating that my judgement is clouded due to comped meals:

I was quite disturbed to hear of this revelation; You write a column in the New York Times. `This is a restaurant you reviewed in the newspaper. Comped meals are not only unacceptable, IMHO, but completely against all journalistic principles. Does the NY Times editor know of these comped meals? If they do and approve, shame on the NY Times. I feel that any media food critic should be anonymous on his visits prior to review; there should also never be a comp after the review, either, because that casts a further cloud on the veracity of the review, e.g., a possible quid pro quo.

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I wouldn't think Jason and Rachel would stoop so low as to review a meal that was comped. Next subject.

[Lreda]

I assumed you were referring to my "oooh" comment and you were casting an aspersion to my relationship to Silver Oak and insinuating that my judgement is clouded due to comped meals:

I was quite disturbed to hear of this revelation; You write a column in the New York Times. `This is a restaurant you reviewed in the newspaper. Comped meals are not only unacceptable, IMHO, but completely against all journalistic principles. Does the NY Times editor know of these comped meals? If they do and approve, shame on the NY Times. I feel that any media food critic should be anonymous on his visits prior to review; there should also never be a comp after the review, either, because that casts a further cloud on the veracity of the review, e.g., a possible quid pro quo.

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Have to agree with Menton1. If this is true Jason and you're been comped for dinner either before or after a review it's not right, especially if you're writing for the Times. I've already told Peter Conway I've got his photo in my kitchen for my staff to look at. The way this is posted by others and if it's true doesn't look good for you. i'd like to give you a little leeway but we restaurant owners don't get that on this forum.

I'll lay back and let you respond but it's certainly interresting when reviewers get reviewed.

After all , I was blasted for putting my foot upon my beer cooler after surgery for my knee. I left the hospital to hold a egullet lunch, 3 days after my operation. Didn't want to let egulleteers down.

Edited because I get pissed and other people support me through PM's & emails.

Soon to be deleted.

Edited March 7, 2006 by Lreda (log)

[Anonymouze]

I assumed you were referring to my "oooh" comment and you were casting an aspersion to my relationship to Silver Oak and insinuating that my judgement is clouded due to comped meals:

I was quite disturbed to hear of this revelation; You write a column in the New York Times. `This is a restaurant you reviewed in the newspaper. Comped meals are not only unacceptable, IMHO, but completely against all journalistic principles. Does the NY Times editor know of these comped meals? If they do and approve, shame on the NY Times. I feel that any media food critic should be anonymous on his visits prior to review; there should also never be a comp after the review, either, because that casts a further cloud on the veracity of the review, e.g., a possible quid pro quo.

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Have to agree with Menton1. If this is true Jason and you're been comped for dinner either before or after a review it's not right, especially if you're writing for the Times. I've already told Peter Conway I've got his photo in my kitchen for my staff to look at. The way this is posted by others and if it's true doesn't look good for you. i'd like to give you a little leeway but we restaurant owners don't get that on this forum.

I'll lay back and let you respond but it's certainly interresting when reviewers get reviewed.

After all , I was blasted for putting my foot upon my beer cooler after surgery for my knee. I left the hospital to hold a egullet lunch, 3 days after my operation. Didn't want to let egulleteers down.

Edited because I get pissed and other people support me through PM's & emails.

Soon to be deleted.

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I am quoting this directly "I also write small “Quick Bite” restaurant reviews for the Sunday New Jersey Section of the New York Times, which I’ve been doing since November of 2004. - J. Perlow

"

I will try to stay neutral on this but if you are writing it "freelance" or for pay and you are getting "comped" this may be considered a conflict of interest. If you are paying for all you eat before/during/after reviews, that would make me believe any reviews veracity and authenticity much more. I'm not sure what is true and what is not true but it would be nice to have it clarified without "finger pointing" and just to discuss it without it becoming a whole big deal. On the other hand, it might fall under the same category of a Reviewer, President of a Company, Senator or President or anyone else taking a "bribe" for favorable ratings/reviews etc. Just my semi-humble opinion. See: http://www.accidentalhedonist.com/index.php?cat=128

Edited March 8, 2006 by Anonymouze (log)

[tommy]

jason addresses these issues in this thread.

[Rosie]

Let's get back to BBQ in NJ and if you have any comments for Jason please e-mail or PM him.

[hitmanoo]

Let's get back to BBQ in NJ and if you  have any comments for Jason please e-mail or PM him.

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Good idea.

Has anyone ever tried Burnett BBQ on Sprinfield Ave in Maplewood? I've passed by a few times, but haven't seen much of a crowd, and I haven't braved it yet myself.

Thought perhaps I'd get a heads up.

[Rail Paul]

Burnet BBQ

1844 Springfield Ave

Maplewood New Jersey 07040-2905

(973) 761-6200

[Keba]

I have a friend who moved from Kansas City about 5 years ago and now lives in Essex County.  He breaks into laughter every time we mention B-B-Q in NJ.  It just simply is not available on the level that it is elsewhere(KC, Texas, etc.)  If you've been to a real KC BBQ place you'd know what I mean.  Clsest I've gotten is Indigo Smoke in Montclair and they aren't even close.

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I agree with you 100%

My wife and I went to KC and Memphis last year just to get an education. I have read over and over on EG that any of the places around here do not compare and I have to agree. Memphis was very good but KC was AMAZING! I think about it all the time and am planning on going back.

We were there for less than 36 hours and went to 5 places. Even the worst of the five was excellent.

I still enjoy Blue Smoke and Dinosaur but they are not KC.

Keba

[richl2214]

I have a friend who moved from Kansas City about 5 years ago and now lives in Essex County.  He breaks into laughter every time we mention B-B-Q in NJ.  It just simply is not available on the level that it is elsewhere(KC, Texas, etc.)  If you've been to a real KC BBQ place you'd know what I mean.  Clsest I've gotten is Indigo Smoke in Montclair and they aren't even close.

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  LOL!

I agree with you 100%

My wife and I went to KC and Memphis last year just to get an education. I have read over and over on EG that any of the places around here do not compare and I have to agree. Memphis was very good but KC was AMAZING! I think about it all the time and am planning on going back.

We were there for less than 36 hours and went to 5 places. Even the worst of the five was excellent.

I still enjoy Blue Smoke and Dinosaur but they are not KC.

Keba

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NJ can do bbq about as good as Kalifornia can do pizza.

Hope some of you can experience a KC BBQ someday. You WILL be ruined for anything else.

[tommy]

Hope some of you can experience a KC BBQ someday.  You WILL be ruined for anything else.

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assuming, of course, that we like KC BBQ the best. i prefer central south carolina and eastern north carolina BBQ. to me they are true expressions of BBQ. and to a lot of other people as well.

comparing KC BBQ to all other BBQ makes about as much sense as comparing it to dry-aged steaks or pasta. while they are related by name and smoke, they're totally different animals. if you'll pardon the pun.

Edited March 8, 2006 by tommy (log)

[hitmanoo]

Hope some of you can experience a KC BBQ someday.  You WILL be ruined for anything else.

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assuming, of course, that we like KC BBQ the best. i prefer central south carolina and eastern north carolina BBQ. to me they are true expressions of BBQ. and to a lot of other people as well.

comparing KC BBQ to all other BBQ makes about as much sense as comparing it to dry-aged steaks or pasta. while they are related by name and smoke, they're totally different animals. if you'll pardon the pun.

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I'm not so sure that the point is KC BBQ or Carolina BBQ or Texas BBQ per se--I think the point is enjoying genuine BBQ at its origin where they really do it right vs having BBQ in NY/NJ where they can imitate but not duplicate genuine BBQ.

Kind of like having a NY style bagel in Florida. As best as they try to make one, it's just not as good as the "real thing."

[tommy]

Hope some of you can experience a KC BBQ someday.  You WILL be ruined for anything else.

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assuming, of course, that we like KC BBQ the best. i prefer central south carolina and eastern north carolina BBQ. to me they are true expressions of BBQ. and to a lot of other people as well.

comparing KC BBQ to all other BBQ makes about as much sense as comparing it to dry-aged steaks or pasta. while they are related by name and smoke, they're totally different animals. if you'll pardon the pun.

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I'm not so sure that the point is KC BBQ or Carolina BBQ or Texas BBQ per se--I think the point is enjoying genuine BBQ at its origin where they really do it right vs having BBQ in NY/NJ where they can imitate but not duplicate genuine BBQ.

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perhaps i misread rich's thrust. "imitate" vs "duplicate"???!?! poppycock.

on the notion that you can't make KC or texas or memphis or eastern carolina BBQ in NJ, that's just ridiculous. whether or not anyone actually is is debatable. but you can take a pit master from KC, hitch his smoker to a pickup, drive it up 95, and back it into my back yard, and he will be producing the same exact product. you could even buy a smoker up here instead of dragging it from KC. there's nothing magical happening inside of the essentially arbitrary borders of KC, no secret element inherent in the air or water or trees or pigs or dry rub, that isn't happening or doesn't exist in NJ.

but i'll agree that NYC water is essential for a good bagel.

Edited March 8, 2006 by tommy (log)

[hitmanoo]

Hope some of you can experience a KC BBQ someday.  You WILL be ruined for anything else.

←

assuming, of course, that we like KC BBQ the best. i prefer central south carolina and eastern north carolina BBQ. to me they are true expressions of BBQ. and to a lot of other people as well.

comparing KC BBQ to all other BBQ makes about as much sense as comparing it to dry-aged steaks or pasta. while they are related by name and smoke, they're totally different animals. if you'll pardon the pun.

←

I'm not so sure that the point is KC BBQ or Carolina BBQ or Texas BBQ per se--I think the point is enjoying genuine BBQ at its origin where they really do it right vs having BBQ in NY/NJ where they can imitate but not duplicate genuine BBQ.

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perhaps i misread rich's thrust. "imitate" vs "duplicate"???!?! poppycock.

on the notion that you can't make KC or texas or memphis or eastern carolina BBQ in NJ, that's just ridiculous. whether or not anyone actually is is debatable. but you can take a pit master from KC, hitch his smoker to a pickup, drive it up 95, and back it into my back yard, and he will be producing the same exact product. you could even buy a smoker up here instead of dragging it from KC. there's nothing magical happening inside of the essentially arbitrary borders of KC, no secret element inherent in the air or water or trees or pigs or dry rub, that isn't happening or doesn't exist in NJ.

but i'll agree that NYC water is essential for a good bagel.

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I guess we'll just have to make a road trip to KC and a road trip to Carolina to get a basis of comparison, and then decide if anyone in NY/NJ even comes close.

It's easy to say that something can be done here. It's tougher to confirm that it's actually being done.

I know that I had a couple of dishes at the NYC Big Apple BBQ that blew me away... I can just imagine how well they are done in the actual restaurant in the native location.

[tommy]

It's easy to say that something can be done here.  It's tougher to confirm that it's actually being done.

I know that I had a couple of dishes at the NYC Big Apple BBQ that blew me away... I can just imagine how well they are done in the actual restaurant in the native location.

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i'm all for road trips. but as i said

on the notion that you can't make KC or texas or memphis or eastern carolina BBQ in NJ, that's just ridiculous. whether or not anyone actually is is debatable.

i'm not about to debate it. the only BBQ that i've experienced in NJ that even remotely resembles anything that, to my mind, would rival the best places in KC, are Fink's and Silver Oak Bistro (not that they are KC style BBQ).

i've had BBQ at "native locations". they were grimey, crowded, uncomfortable, and had crappy wine lists. i'll take Blue Smoke over native.

by rich's admission, his friend "laughs" every time someone mentions BBQ in NJ. to me, that suggests at least one of two things:

1) rich's friend thinks it's impossible for someone to produce good BBQ inside the borders of NJ

2) rich's friend has tried every restaurant's BBQ in NJ and finds them all inferior to the places back home.

i don't believe either.

Edited March 8, 2006 by tommy (log)

[rooftop1000]

The best I can come up with in NJ isnt really in North NJ....

HOG HOLLOW BAR-B-Q

400 rt 57

Phlipsburgh NJ

908-454-4294

These directions will get you there the LONG way around from RT 23 Kinnelon NJ

From a motorcycle touring magazine

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?p=hog+...&icp=1&.intl=us

I have eaten there twice...its good although they do have this insane 1 pound baked potato they stuff with pulled pork...Kinda overkill

tracey

[tommy]

I have eaten there twice...its good although they do have this insane 1 pound baked potato they stuff with pulled pork...Kinda overkill

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i have tried, and tried, and tried. but i cannot for the life of me come up with a better use for a potato.

[PicnicChef]

I have eaten there twice...its good although they do have this insane 1 pound baked potato they stuff with pulled pork...Kinda overkill

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i have tried, and tried, and tried. but i cannot for the life of me come up with a better use for a potato.

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ditto! How wonderful that sounds....

[rooftop1000]

The reminder of the potato just made my hubby smile....he says he could barely get out of the chair. And he had to get me home on the big bad motorcycle yet.

We are a group in constant search of BBQ...our default-no one wants to lead- leader didnt show up....ride is to Kundla's out in PA near Lake Wallenpaupak 2 hours from North jersey IF you go in a staight line.

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=68654&hl=

t

Edited March 9, 2006 by rooftop1000 (log)

[richl2214]

Hope some of you can experience a KC BBQ someday.  You WILL be ruined for anything else.

←

assuming, of course, that we like KC BBQ the best. i prefer central south carolina and eastern north carolina BBQ. to me they are true expressions of BBQ. and to a lot of other people as well.

comparing KC BBQ to all other BBQ makes about as much sense as comparing it to dry-aged steaks or pasta. while they are related by name and smoke, they're totally different animals. if you'll pardon the pun.

←

I'm not so sure that the point is KC BBQ or Carolina BBQ or Texas BBQ per se--I think the point is enjoying genuine BBQ at its origin where they really do it right vs having BBQ in NY/NJ where they can imitate but not duplicate genuine BBQ.

Kind of like having a NY style bagel in Florida. As best as they try to make one, it's just not as good as the "real thing."

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Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

Tommy my friend who now lives in East Hanover has been to plenty of BBQ places here. Enough for him to form an opinion that NJ "BBQ" places are not in the same league he grew up on. I found the same when I lived in Kalifornia for a year. Not one pizza place that served a decent slice and I visited plenty. Could there be some hole in the wall place in NJ that serves great BBQ equivalent to the real thing? Sure.

[tommy]

I found the same when I lived in Kalifornia for a year.  Not one pizza place that served a decent slice and I visited plenty.

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i find the same holds true for NY and NJ as well.

[Lima Bean]

I'm a BBQ lover, and try it everywhere I travel. Clearly an end less arguement dry or wet....so when I need a fix, I don't go to the mason jar, loved Finks, didn't think the place in Teaneck was anything worth mentioning.

Instead, i go to Houston's at the Riverside Square mall in Hackensack and eat their ribs. I'm always satisified. They are wet, smokey and fall off the bone. The thin fries make a good side.

Lima Bean

[Keba]

Hope some of you can experience a KC BBQ someday.  You WILL be ruined for anything else.

←

assuming, of course, that we like KC BBQ the best. i prefer central south carolina and eastern north carolina BBQ. to me they are true expressions of BBQ. and to a lot of other people as well.

comparing KC BBQ to all other BBQ makes about as much sense as comparing it to dry-aged steaks or pasta. while they are related by name and smoke, they're totally different animals. if you'll pardon the pun.

←

I'm not so sure that the point is KC BBQ or Carolina BBQ or Texas BBQ per se--I think the point is enjoying genuine BBQ at its origin where they really do it right vs having BBQ in NY/NJ where they can imitate but not duplicate genuine BBQ.

Kind of like having a NY style bagel in Florida. As best as they try to make one, it's just not as good as the "real thing."

←

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

Tommy my friend who now lives in East Hanover has been to plenty of BBQ places here. Enough for him to form an opinion that NJ "BBQ" places are not in the same league he grew up on. I found the same when I lived in Kalifornia for a year. Not one pizza place that served a decent slice and I visited plenty. Could there be some hole in the wall place in NJ that serves great BBQ equivalent to the real thing? Sure.

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This should probably be another thread but I am sure that any of these local foods (ie NY pizza, KC/NC/TN BBQ, bagels, Buffalo wings, etc) could be produced anywhere but they are not. I think the problem is that they don't need to be. People are just fine with chain pizza, or KFC Buffalo wings, etc so someone who wants to try to do it right finds out that there are very few people who can appreciate it. So, they either don't succeed as much as they though they would because people don't care or they find out that it is not worth the effort to continually try to raise the bar.

Keba

[richl2214]

I found the same when I lived in Kalifornia for a year.  Not one pizza place that served a decent slice and I visited plenty.

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i find the same holds true for NY and NJ as well.

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I'd second that. The pizza I've been making at home on my stone has been miles better than anything I can buy in a shop. LOL Can't hold a candle to my Garndad's pie but I'm getting there!