Raising food-savy children

[lizziee]

This was brought up in the Q and A with Lidia and I think it is a topic worth exploring. I have had dinner at different chefs' homes with their children and the kids are just as intractable as my own was.

We introduced our son to everything, but he still prefered pasta, pizza, rice etc. We would be invited to a French Sunday lunch and he prefered to stay home and order take-out, delivery. We kept on plugging and kept on introducing him to fine cuisine and he grudgingly went along. Finally, when he was about 17, he saw the light. He has become very wine and food knowledgeable and is currently in the business of fine dining. BUT, it took time and patience. Therefore, I think you have to expose children to different cuisines, tastes etc. but also let them be kids and eat McDonald's. Further, I think it is important to not make an issue out of every meal.

Please forgive - The word is SAVVY!

[Rachel Perlow]

I think you shouldn't introduce them to everything. If you never introduce your kids to McDonalds in the first place then how will they ever develop a taste for it? If you make homemade pizza, they'll never want Dominos (we didn't do homemade but did order from decent places when I was growing up, I hated dominos from the first bite at college).

It doesn't matter if the parents are chefs. Just cause my dad was a stockbroker didn't mean I was naturally interested in the stockmarket. If the kids are already spoiled and you want to change it, you have to just keep at it. If all that is ever offered is quality foods, the place where the battle is won is in who breaks down first. It doesn't have to be "an issue" at every meal if Mom & Dad could just stick out the whining, carrying on, crying, etc., for the first couple days, then the kids will eventually eat. They will have to, won't they? They can only go hungry for so long, no matter how stubburn they are.

This is basic conditioning, Psych 101. I imagine the episode of Mad About You when Jamie and Paul were suffering through the baby's crying to get her to sleep through the night. It's the same thing. If you give in once, the child just learns where your breaking point is, and will redouble their efforts next time to get you to break down sooner. The really hard part is to never break down ever.

When I'm in ethnic restaurants, like for Chinese Dim-Sum or an Indian lunch - there are mothers in there with toddlers in high chairs, and they are eating bits from the adult plates. I'm sure the mom's make sure they aren't eating the really hot stuff, but I never see them refuse a bite of jook, dumpling filling or biryani. And they probably never had to go through reconditioning the kids to accept these foods because they were offered (in mushed up forms) as soon as they were weaned.

[Sandra Levine]

It's the same thing. If you give in once, the child just learns where your breaking point is, and will redouble their efforts next time to get you to break down sooner. The really hard part is to never break down ever.

When I'm in ethnic restaurants, like for Chinese Dim-Sum or an Indian lunch - there are mothers in there with toddlers in high chairs, and they are eating bits from the adult plates. I'm sure the mom's make sure they aren't eating the really hot stuff, but I never see them refuse a bite of jook, dumpling filling or biryani. And they probably never had to go through reconditioning the kids to accept these foods because they were offered (in mushed up forms) as soon as they were weaned.

Rachel, I'll remind you of this at the proper time.

Seriously, I agree, from experience, with everything you say. However, I've noticed that even though some very young children will readily accept new foods and strong or exotic tastes, they often later enter a phase of resistance and need to be re-introduced to the same foods they loved as toddlers. It's a strange phenomenon. Also, some children are more susceptible to peer pressure than others. This, of course, is a larger, but related parenting issue.

[mamster]

If you don't introduce your kids to McDonald's, their friends will. I'm not sure how to handle that, though.

Sometimes I wonder if the best way to raise a food-savvy kid would be to declare all the good stuff off-limits and wait for that rebellious streak to kick in....

[Bux]

I've just touched on this subejct in the I'm Mrs. Inkling thread with two separate posts. To a certain extent you need to make it a non issue to defuse food as a tool of rebellion. To a greater extent you need to set an example of wWhat do you eat, how and when do you eat it. Our daughter was an avid eater of most things. All people have some dislikes and some favorites. Don't force the issue when you come across a dislike and don't pander to it. Dinner was the highlight of our day and we avidly looked forward to restaurant meals, although that usually meant Chinatown in the first decade of her life. We were broke most the time, but she took chicken sandwiches on homemade challah to school and there were always a few cornichons in the bag with sandwiches made of homemade paté. By the time we could afford an occasional meal in a really fine restaurant when she was in her early teens, we made it a point to include her. For all that, she still referred to us as the food snobs and hung in the fast food joints with her posse in high school as appropriate to the age. Perhaps it was telling that for all that, she rarely turned down an invitation to join us for a good dinner out. Lizziee's advice not to force the issue is absolutely critical. It may, in fact, be applied to as many issues that arise in raising a child as you possibly can. It's curious that both Lizzee's son and my daughter have both elected to pursue careers arising out of an interest in food. Be careful about how much of an interest you instill in your kids.

[Steve Plotnicki]

If you speak to anyone in NYC who works in the field of child psychology/psychiatry, they will tell you that an unusually large number of kids these days refuse to eat anything but simple foods like Liz's son. For some reason that they can't put their fingers on, their aversion to food seems to be in direct contrast our broadened interest in it. My sons fit that bill and we hear similar stories about others all of the time. I can't think of a restaurant we frequent (other than 3 star palaces) that doesn't keep a box of pasta in their kitchen to serve to kids along with melted butter. No greens etc. please.

To think that you are going to be able to keep your kids out of places like McDonald's isn't realistic. Kids don't like McDonald's because of the food, it's the atmosphere and the social experience of going there. It also allows them to allocate a limited amount of their time to eating. Less time eating means more time playing video games. As for Domino's Pizza, of course I can believe a kid could like it better than brick oven pizza. After all, I've seen kids like Swiss Miss Hot Cocoa better than Jacques Torres special blend.

The thing today about kids who don't eat is that professionals who deal with children with weight problems will tell you that unless a child's health is at issue you shouldn't intervene and force them to eat what they don't want to eat. They all say that in every case where intervention took place, huge eating disorders seem to occur at a later date. Better off like Liz and her son, to let it run it's proper course. The peer pressure of college, and having girlfriends/boyfriends who look at you crosseyed because you only eat Chicken McNuggets usully does the trick.

[Rachel Perlow]

I know, I'm bad. Giving advice w/out the kids.

However, I'm not talking about force feeding or calling fast-food places verbotin. However, if the parents don't ever bring them for a normal meal, as opposed to outings or parties with friends, it will only be an occasional foray, not a mainstay.

I have read about it and have also seen first-hand how a parent's food issues can be passed to their kids, both good and bad and weird. Someone I know who is always dieting, won't try new things, etc., their kid will only eat very plain food, very picky, doesn't want anyone to watch him eat, won't try new things, etc. My vegetarian cousins on the other hand, their kid's will eat anything (that they are allowed), they love tofu. Our asian friends' child (our god-daughter) eats everything (if she doesn't like it you know it, but it's not from lack of her trying it). I think it is from her grandma constantly giving her bits of whatever everyone else is eating. Plus really fresh fruit.

Here's a tip from her for giving a child fruit. If it is a soft fruit, like a banana, don't bother mashing the whole thing ahead of time. Just peel it down and scrap up mushy bits with the spoon you are feeding with. Also works for plums, pears, peaches, etc.

[Jaymes]

Going to McDonald's is about more than food. If you're an American, it's also (like it or not), about our culture, part of a commonality of experience that ties us together.

For example, when your child is in his mid-twenties, sitting around a chic New York loft, quaffing fine wine and an impudently nouveau selection of the latest cheeses, and the host says something like, "When I was a kid I'd cry if we had to go to Mickey D's, because I was scared of Ronald McDonald." you wouldn't want your kid to say, "Who?"

And after the soccer game, everyone's going to Pizza Hut. You tell YOUR kids that "instead, we're going to stop by D&D because they have a new pâté I've been wanting to try."

I have three grown kids, foodies all, one with a degree in Hotel & Res management, another talking of opening his own Mex rest (Los Guapos ), and a third who cooks gourmet meals for the homesick students in the private boarding school where she teaches.

The kids had to have at least one bite of whatever was on their plates at home (and that was whatever was on OUR plates at home - no "special orders") and if they didn't like what was set before them, fine, but they weren't getting anything else that night.

But with that exception, my main mantra when they were growing up was to just calm down and don't make such a big goddammed deal out of everything.

Food is supposed to be pleasant, enjoyable, even fun. It's not supposed to be just one more opportunity for Mom & Dad to lecture about what is "good" and what is "bad" and what is "proper for sophisticated palates."

Besides, when I'm hung over there's nothing quite like the grease and starch of a Big Mac to soak up all that acidic junk in my tummy.

(Do I sense a new thread topic coming on?)

[Steve Plotnicki]

For every ten success stories you guys can write about, there's a disaster out there somewhere. We know people where the husband eats everything and the wife is extremely picky. So when they had a daughter the husband went out of his way to make sure the kid ate everything. And it was successful to the point where she was eating things like oysters at a very young age, something her mother would never eat. But when the kid started to hit her early teens, she became anorexic or bulemic I can't remember which. Are they connected? Who knows. But this type of story isn't unusual to hear about kids with eating disorders. That is why the advice is to tread carefully.

[Bux]

And after the soccer game, everyone's going to Pizza Hut.  You tell YOUR kids that "instead, we're going to stop by D&D because they have a new pâté I've been wanting to try."

I guess raising a kid in NYC has it's upsides. You rarely had to chauffer kids around. I didn't have to go to MacDonald's. They could go on their own at a fairly early age. It saves face, defuses the issue and allows you to make the point without making it an issue. It also drops the ball in the kid's lap early about making their own decisions. I didn't like the food. It wasn't a moral issue like drugs or cigarettes. Wine was a different thing. We liked wine, you want to drink wine, "fine," but you have to mix it with water until you're older. A teaspoon of wine in a goblet is already an illicit pleasure and may have helped defuse the issue later on, but that's hard to say.

[lizziee]

I've just touched on this subejct in the I'm Mrs. Inkling thread with two separate posts. To a certain extent you need to make it a non issue to defuse food as a tool of rebellion. To a greater extent you need to set an example of wWhat do you eat, how and when do you eat it. Our daughter was an avid eater of most things. All people have some dislikes and some favorites. Don't force the issue when you come across a dislike and don't pander to it. Dinner was the highlight of our day and we avidly looked forward to restaurant meals, although that usually meant Chinatown in the first decade of her life. We were broke most the time, but she took chicken sandwiches on homemade challah to school and there were always a few cornichons in the bag with sandwiches made of homemade paté. By the time we could afford It's curious that both Lizzee's son and my daughter have both elected to pursue careers arising out of an interest in food. Be careful about how much of an interest you instill in your kids.

Bux,

So very, very true or be careful what you wish for. When our son was a junior in college, we offered to treat him to a trip to Paris for his spring break. We envisioned him persuading one of his friends to join him to take in the bistros of Paris. He's not a dumb kid and instead invited his mother to accompany him. His inexpensive little jaunt became what he knew his mother would deliver, particularly with my credit card. He just had to eat at Pierre Gaganire, Taillevent, Le Divellec (he still talks about the turbot) etc. He, then, spent a summer in Paris doing a stage. Oh well, at least he saves McDonald's for those "hung-over" days.

[Tonyfinch]

The majority view on eating disorders is that they are not about food per se.They are about self image, control, power, family dynamics etc. The disorders manifest themselves around food but are not neccessarily linked directly to food experiences.

Trying to mould a child's eating habits is unlikely in itself to lead to food disorders. We are,however,storing up a lot of health problems for our children as they eat more junk and exercise less.Maybe trying to control what they eat is a thankless task but we can certainly try to ensure that they maintain a higher level of activity than sitting in front of the computer or TV screen.

[Steve Plotnicki]

"Trying to mould a child's eating habits is unlikely in itself to lead to food disorders"

Tony - I'm trying to understand how people do that without raising the issues of,

"self image, control, power, family dynamics etc"

That's why it's such a tricky subject. In my example of the friend with the daughter who became anorexic, it obviously has to do more with the parents contentious relationship about food than with any problem the child has. But how do you parse those two apart? It's extremely difficult.

[Jaymes]

I really believe the whole "kid" thing is pretty simple. Just use common sense. Have good things around them when they're growing up - good food, good conversations, good attitudes, good people, good music, good books. And enjoy those things yourself.

Whoever it was that said earlier in the thread that their parent was a stock broker but THEY didn't grow up to be a stock broker quite likely had, at a younger age, a greater understanding of stocks and the brokerage profession in general than someone whose parents were totally uninterested.

Compromise when it's time to compromise and don't when it isn't.

And relax.

Have fun with your kids and fun with food. Kids learn by osmosis. Even in spite of you.

[Tonyfinch]

Jaymes-I agree completely

Steve.The daughter's anorexia may have been something to do with her parents'relationship,but not neccesarily or specifically to do with their attitude towards food. Their disagreement over food may be a manifestation of deeper conflicts in the relationship. I tell you what. Give me their number and I'll offer family therapy services direct.

[JSD]

It doesn't matter if YOU don't take your kids to McDonalds. One of their friends undoubtedly will. They want the toys anyway. If you don't want them to want to go to McDonalds, you'd be better off not letting them watch TV.

[Kim WB]

I've raised three children...one who is a 18 year old salad, fruit and grilled chicken kid, a 15 year old who eats plain pasta with butter or plain bagels with cream cheese...and a 12 year old who eats anything. All three kids had the exposure, from a young age, to a large variety of food. Each year at their physical, I am assured they are growing and healthy. They all participate in sports, have energy and are generally healthy. Even at McDonald's, its an individual thing: Kate gets the salad, Connor gets french fries only, and Dillon will eat whatever you put in front of him...Food preferences are highly individual, and evolving...I just don't think there is a lot you can do to make your child one way or the other.

[heyjude]

Eda LeShan, who died recently, was a very wise psychologist who wrote books on every aspect of life from birth to old age. Her best advice to parents on all the crises and challenges of raising normal, healthy kids is "wait". If you don't like what your child wants to eat now, Wait. All three of the adult sons we raised are great eaters, willing to try almost anything. It was hard to believe they'd get there based on their childhood tastes which were very limited. Part of the change came from eating at friends' homes, where they were too polite to say, "yuk", as they did about new foods I prepared. So, maybe the secret is to teach them manners and let eating take care of itself.

[John Whiting]

I must admit that I'm pleasantly surprised at how much wisdom has accumulated in this series of random postings. My wife has written four books on the subject of healthy eating for young children, and little if any of what she says contradicts what has been written here. There's hope...

[Kim WB]

And, giving it further thought, I am sure that the "kids who eat everything" and "never been to McDonald's" are the very same ones who sleep through the night at 3 months, and don't need to be nagged at all to get through their school's summer reading list! We've all HEARD of these kids..but few of us actually HAVE one! LOL

[bushey]

Kim WB -- I am laughing out loud. My daughter eats just about everything and refuses to eat any sort of fast food, much to the annoyance of her high school friends. And she bugged me about going to Barnes and Noble to get her summer reading books before leaving for camp......However, she didn't sleep through the night until she was four years old. And she spent the first 18 months of her life regurgitating almost every meal (g.e. reflux). She was so little they had to draw in her growth chart by hand because there was nothing under the 5th percentile.

A reasonable approach is to give kids many options of healthy foods to eat, not to make any particular food item (e.g. McDonald's french fries) or category (e.g. dessert. as in "finish all your _____ before you can have dessert) forbidden and respect their individuals tastes. Taste, texture, sight and smell all play an important role in what we find appealing and appetizing -- and it's truly amazing at how early an age these are factors.

There are so many psychological and social factors surrounding food and eating in our culture that it's no wonder so many food issues are ultimately related to power and control. And working through issues of power and self-control is part and parcel of growing up.

[Tonyfinch]

A proposal to ban crisps,chocolate and other "junk" foods from children's school lunch boxes was animatedly discussed in the British media yesterday.

Apart from the practicalities of imposing such a ban, all the experts appeared to agree that it would have no effect on children's eating habits and would make these "forbidden" foods more attractive to them.

The general consensus was that children are NOT eating any more sweets,chocolate etc. than they ever have,but they are getting far less exercise.British parents are,apparently,far more frightened for their children than they used to be-refusing to let them play out in the streets, not allowing them to walk to school, fearful that physical activity might result in injury etc. etc.

Have we become over protective to the point of paranoia?

[circeplum]

my two children, gabriel aged 6 and circe aged 4 have been brought up in EXACTLY the same way with one difference.

gabriel happily eats sushi, sashimi, crab, whole baby octopus, 'stinky cheeses', even broccoli - loads of things that his peers go 'eeuuw' at. to my despair, his sister eats none of these, preferring fish fingers and the blessed heinz tomato ketchup.

the difference? when gabriel was tiny i had time, so i pureed vegetables and fruit and also breast-fed. as a weeny baby, poor circe had a full-time working ma, so was weaned on formula and packets and jars of food (albeit organic as a sop to my conscience).

significant?

[Kathyk]

And, giving it further thought, I am sure that the "kids who eat everything" and "never been to McDonald's" are the very same ones who sleep through the night at 3 months, and don't need to be nagged at all to get through their school's summer reading list!  We've all HEARD of these kids..but few of us actually HAVE one! LOL

Hmmm... My daughter (now 7 months) was sleeping through the night at 6 weeks. Does this mean I can look forward to her never wanting to eat at McDonald's and that she will be eager to complete her schoolwork? That would be nice.

Since my daughter primarily eats breastmilk, I really can't speak from my own parenting experience on this topic, but I have observed my sister and my sisters in law and their children's eating habits.

My sister never cooks separate meals for her children (2 boys, 5 and 3). They always eat what she and her DH are eating. One of her sons (5 y.o.) has a milk allergy, so if she is making something with cheese or butter, she will keep a portion separate for him that doesn't consume the milk products. They don't eat haute cuisine, it is usually pork chops, cous cous, and steamed carrots (not every night, but that would be a sample menu). When I eat with their family, the boys never complain about the food. They know that they have to eat at least a bite of everything on the plate before they can leave the table (usually they eat more than a bite). They rarely eat fast food, but on occasion, my sister will stop off at Burger King in a pinch (maybe once a month or every two months).

My sisters in law tend to cater to what their kids like - which is basiocally chicken nuggets and mac-n-cheese.

When my dd gets past breastmilk, rice cereal, and strained veggies, I hope to be more like my sister and teach my child to appreciate different foods without making junk food into the forbidden fruit.

--Kathy

[Saffy]

I have 3 children, who all have various likes and dislikes.

The oldest was VERY picky as a small child, the middle one eats anything except pumpkin and tomato and has been the same since he started solids ( he's 12 now ) the youngest who is only 2 seems to survive on a diet of mostly bread, cheese and yoghurt at the moment.

The oldest child - who is now 14 despite the fact that she would not eat anything when she was little , will now eat most things, she is taller than her mother ( me ) and is very sporting.

We do not take any of the kids to Pizza Hut, McDs KFC or anything like that. If others want to take them that is ok, but we don't buy them meals there ourselves.

But what we do instead is give the two older children a dinner out once a month of their choosing. We give them a price range ( depending on the budget that month ) and they take turns at picking where we are going to eat. They are not allowed to choose the same place twice in a year. So that way we all get to eat out somewhere different eating good ( hopefully ) food and trying out different places.

We have eaten Thai, Japanese, Korean and Indian foods recently.

But having said all that .. I asked them what they wanted for dinner the other night.. giving them free rein! Anything they wanted I would cook them. Chocolate cake, Chicken Tikka, poached salmon.. the sky was the limit..

You know what's coming don't you

They wanted heinz baked beans with little sausages in it... from the can!!

So.. You can help your kids develop a wider palate.. but they are still going to choose the hamburger over the fillet steak any day :)