The All All-Clad Cookware Topic

[slkinsey]

Although the two pans seem to be the same size and shape, I find it very interesting that the MC2 pan is called the "Ultimate Covered Sauce Pan" and the Stainless pan is called the "Ultimate Sauté Pot."

The Macy's links you provide don't give any dimensions so it's hard to say exactly, but the pictures sure look a lot more like sauce pans than they do sauté pans. The sides appear to be too high, and the cooking surface too small, for them to be particularly useful at sautéing. I also find it extremely strange that the Stainless pan is over a hundred dollars less expensive than the MC2 pan. Stainless is usually a good bit more expensive.

In general, MC2 and LTD will provide better performance than Stainless. This is because these two lines have a thicker layer of aluminum compared to the fully clad Stainless line. More aluminum means better performance. IMO, the MC2 line is All-Clad's best line, because it has the thickest layer of aluminum and you aren't paying extra for the hard-to-clean anodized exterior on the LTD line (MC2 is All-Clad's least expensive line).

lorea, I'm not sure what you're looking for a pan to do. Why would you want this pan? If you're looking for a sauté pan, I think you can do a lot better than this particular shape, and I think you could do a lot better on price. You could get a Sitram sauté pan with a thick disk bottom on amazon.com for around half of what Macy's is charging for the All-Clad "Stainless Ultimate Sauté Pot." The Sitram pan would, in my opinion, be better for sautéing. Then again, very few home cooks actually use a sauté pan.

As for saucepan functionality... it is very rarely worth the money for a home cook to have a fully clad six quart sauce pan. A lot of people end up spending big bucks on All-Clad saucepans that end up being massive overkill because they're mostly using them to boil water, steam vegetables, make soup, etc. Six quarts is a lot of sauce.

What is is that you would like to do in the kitchen that you feel you currently cannot do well with the cookware you currently own?

[jeniac42]

When does All-Clad have their sales? I'm not too far from Canonsburg and I'd love to check that out sometime. I looked on their site and couldn't find any information.

[slschnur]

I'm not sure if they still do, but they used to be in June & December. They were not advertised - we would call the company & ask when they'd be held. It's certainly worth trying to find out because the prices were at least 50% less than list & sometimes even more. The quality control level was so high that even a small defect could throw a pot into the sale bin.

[lorea]

Well, if you see the pan/pot in person, it looks like it's the same dimensions as All Clad's casserole pan, except it has a long handle and short loop handle instead of 2 short loop handles.

I think you could use it for the same things you would use the casserole pan for - plus, it has the added convenience of having a long handle, and it's cheaper too!

[lorea]

I just wanted to report in..I purchased the Stainless version (because I really wanted the easy-to-clean part) of this pan and made a big fat pot of curry in it last night. Beautiful! It made enough curry for 6 people. The chicken cooked up nicely in it (no splatter too, since it was so high), and everything simmered nicely in it. The cleanup was a breeze. My only fault with the pan is that the little handle on the pan/pot and handle on the lid got hot...what is up with that? I think that's a fault with all All-Clad's pots though.

I love it!!

[deltadoc]

I've stocked my kitchen with almost every conceivable All-Clad pot or pan, but after using them for some years now, I think I have to honestly say that they are a product of mass advertising and chique appeal.

They really don't cook all that much better than other pots and pans. The 20 Qt stock pot still lets stuff burn on the bottom, even though I use super low gas flame on really outrageously thick cast iron grates (an original Professional Thermador gas cooktop built by DCS - the very first model released by Thermador circa 1991-2).

Even using the ideaology of "Hot pan, cold oil, food won't stick" doesn't really help!

I will say they work better than the 22 Qt steel stock pot I bought at the restaurant supply house. It's really thick but I don't think it has the copper or aluminum sandwiched between the steel.

doc

[tim]

In general, MC2 and LTD will provide better performance than Stainless. This is because these two lines have a thicker layer of aluminum compared to the fully clad Stainless line. More aluminum means better performance. IMO, the MC2 line is All-Clad's best line, because it has the thickest layer of aluminum and you aren't paying extra for the hard-to-clean anodized exterior on the LTD line (MC2 is All-Clad's least expensive line).

Sam,

As you know the original Masterchef and LTD both were about 0.135" thick and All-Clad developed a thinner base (about 0.120") for the MC-2 line.

Recently I saw a new set of MC-2 that had suspiciously thick bases. These had the MC-2 handles attached to Masterchef bases. The base was labeled Masterchef and was 0.135" thick.

I assumed that All-Clad was upgrading the MC-2 witht the thicker aluminium and called their customer service. Typically, their head engineer reported that there is no difference between the base on the Masterchef and MC-2. I explained that I had measured the thickness of the pans with a micrometer. The Customer Service Rep stated, "I am only the messenger."

Jen, You may purchase All-Clad Seconds (minor imperfections) from Cookwarenmore.com. They have two sales each year, I think in December and June.

Tim

Edited September 13, 2006 by tim (log)

[Hawthorne]

I've stocked my kitchen with almost every conceivable All-Clad pot or pan, but after using them for some years now, I think I have to honestly say that they are a product of mass advertising and chique appeal.

They really don't cook all that much better than other pots and pans.  The 20 Qt stock pot still lets stuff burn on the bottom, even though I use super low gas flame on really outrageously thick cast iron grates (an original Professional Thermador gas cooktop built by DCS - the very first model released by Thermador circa 1991-2).

Even using the ideaology of "Hot pan, cold oil, food won't stick" doesn't really help!

I will say they work better than the 22 Qt steel stock pot I bought at the restaurant supply house.  It's really thick but I don't think it has the copper or aluminum sandwiched between the steel.

doc

←

What do you like in readily available cookware, then? Is there a thread? I'm hammering my way down the list, trying not to miss any good stuff :-)

I have several pieces of all-clad, some ss, some MC-2 (which I think I actually prefer, but when someone makes you a gift .. ) and I like it better than anything else I've had, I think. I don't have any pieces as big as a stockpot, but it's pretty nearly scorchproof here ... except of course, if you forget about it :-) I have one of their non-stick saute pans, and for non-stick it's very good, but I will not make that mistake again.

What I'm cooking on is a Viking range, not small burners ... I do use a simmer plate sometimes, to get the temp down, because even the lowest flame puts out more heat for some things than is ideal.

But if there is something better out there ...

What am I missing?

[deltadoc]

What do you like in readily available cookware, then? Is there a thread? I'm hammering my way down the list, trying not to miss any good stuff :-)

But if there is something better out there ...

What am I missing?

←

That is the question of the hour~! I spent near $450 for the 20 Qt stock pot. (From reading responses above, I wish to make it clear that the SS stock pot from the restaurant supply store was not All-clad). All my All-Clad are the LTD line (I liked the idea of the charcoal finish because shiny pots and pans always get rude looking over time from the gas flame). The only non-LTD All-clad I have is the large Roasting Pan with roasting grate that comes with it. However, it is one of my favorite cooking pans, great for roasting, eggplant parmiagiana, lasagna, etc.

But back to the question, I don't know what is the best cookware. I'm suspcious of anything that gets advertised as much as All-Clad. It's easy to get enthused when they show what looks like a contemporary professional staff using the All Clad pots and pans, especially the beared guy with the REALLY serious look on his face. Obviously the idea is that such a serious guy wouldn't use anything but the best. I gotta keep reminding myself that these people in any ads are not real. They're all actors picked to play a part and to look the part too.

Just like the Infomercial special investigation that was on NBC TV last night, Dateline. What a ruse! They made pills with Nestle's Quik in them, found an infomercial maker that put together a really convincing 1/2 hour ad that taking these pills once a day would "moisturize your skin from the inside out".

doc

[Hawthorne]

What do you like in readily available cookware, then? Is there a thread? I'm hammering my way down the list, trying not to miss any good stuff :-)

But if there is something better out there ...

What am I missing?

←

That is the question of the hour~! I spent near $450 for the 20 Qt stock pot. (From reading responses above, I wish to make it clear that the SS stock pot from the restaurant supply store was not All-clad). All my All-Clad are the LTD line (I liked the idea of the charcoal finish because shiny pots and pans always get rude looking over time from the gas flame). The only non-LTD All-clad I have is the large Roasting Pan with roasting grate that comes with it. However, it is one of my favorite cooking pans, great for roasting, eggplant parmiagiana, lasagna, etc.

But back to the question, I don't know what is the best cookware. I'm suspcious of anything that gets advertised as much as All-Clad. It's easy to get enthused when they show what looks like a contemporary professional staff using the All Clad pots and pans, especially the beared guy with the REALLY serious look on his face. Obviously the idea is that such a serious guy wouldn't use anything but the best. I gotta keep reminding myself that these people in any ads are not real. They're all actors picked to play a part and to look the part too.

Just like the Infomercial special investigation that was on NBC TV last night, Dateline. What a ruse! They made pills with Nestle's Quik in them, found an infomercial maker that put together a really convincing 1/2 hour ad that taking these pills once a day would "moisturize your skin from the inside out".

doc

←

Ah .. I don't know how they advertise; I haven't watched the tube for 20 years apart from the occasional movie or olympic event. Maybe I shouldn't admit it here, but I don't watch food TV, though I did watch Julia Child years ago with considerable pleasure. I succumbed to the first piece of all-clad based on word of mouth recommendations and a really, really, good sale price. And an ever deepening irritatation with anodized Magnalite, which was not, I think, worth the price I paid for it. I don't regret what I've put out for the all-clad.

AC has been around for a while, though - they aren't churning out product for foodTV or something (in their own name anyway) - though as I haven't tested those particular lines of cookware, I don't know that they aren't fine.

I have bought several odd pieces of cookware second hand, and the only other piece I've scored which seems in the same class as the all-clad is Kirkland, which is Costco's 'house' brand, and I don't know who makes it. It's a little heavier than the all-clad, which is not a plus, but as it's not as heavy as cast iron, it's workable. I have a medium sized fry pan; if I can buy other pieces the way I got that one I'll probably snap them up. The exteriors are all ss, of course. One of the things I like about the AC (and Kirkland) is that the handles *do* stay cool, (no not the grab handles or lid handles, but I'd be surprised if they did) and also, I no longer buy *any* cookware that doesn't have a lid that can be looped over the handle to hang. Pot lid storage is my nemesis.

I agree that the ss finish isn't the best in terms of livability, but I don't know that I'd pay the differential for the charcoal finish - so far I've got the ss and aluminum, which is probably a little better than ss, but I've always figured that if the pots look a little lived in, well, they're not there for show. Once in a while I get a bug and some ss cleaner and tart them up a bit, but I'm not obsessive about it. I might find copper more attractive if it wasn't for the cleaning issues, or if I had an independent income .. and a kitchen slave .. lol!

I would expect that most of the commercial kitchen cookware pieces are too big to be practical for my regular use, and I haven't looked hard at them. I like the clad cookware better than the kind with a heavy plate on the bottom and have migrated most of that out to the RV. Actually this 6qt saute from AC looks attractive to me; there are things I cook in large quantities for freezing .. but on a daily basis, that would be about as big as I'd use. I'd kill for the AC roaster, but so far no one has offered me any such deal :-)

But ... if someone knows of a better line, I might be tempted to try a little test .. always looking for something better, eh?

[ojisan]

I second the Sitram Catering line - excellent performance, reasonably priced, lasts forever. There's a reason why restaurants in France use them. I had All-Clad and Calphalon, but sold or gave them away and now use Sitram (and carbon steel frypans)

[bandregg]

The best cookware is that which cooks what it's intended to the best. How's that for a tautology. My wife and I are getting ready to move and as part of that returned a load of pots and pans to Williams Sonoma that we got for our wedding seven years ago: no longer non-stick was the number one complaint, followed by we never use it. Now we have a mixed collection of pots and pans that do get used and work really well at their intended function: Lodge cast iron skillets, Le Cruset dutch oven and small sauce pan, All Clad non-stick griddle, All Clad small sauce pan, Calphalon non-stick medium stock pot. I'll be buying a new non-stick skillet for eggs, a new saute pan, and a new large sauce pan. I haven't decide what brand for these but they probably won't match either. I love this relatively limited set and I could pair it down more without suffering, and everything does it's job just right.

[Jules123]

I too am thinking about getting the Ultimate Saute Pan, which looks like a good all purpose pan. Would it be usable for soup?

[ChefCarey]

I'm thinking about buying the All-Clad Deep Saute Pan (it's also called the All-Clad Ultimate Saute Pot).  I was wondering if anybody has had any experience with these saute pans?

If so, what do you make with it?  How's the performance?

Thanks!

←

Over the years I've owned many of the All-Clad pots and pans. Really depends on what you have planned for the pan/pot. The straight-sided (saute) pans are great for braised dishes, and, yes, sauces. However, if your intended use is sauteing, oddly enough, a frypan would be your best choice. Been telling my students for years that what we use on the cooking line in restaurants for the saute station is actually a frypan (sloping sides.) Much easier to use - and, of course if you want to practice the flipping motion we use, by all means get a frypan.

[Linda Rose]

I've been looking to replace my 30 year old revereware, and with much research, I have decided to try to get cookware that is thick aluminum outside, stainless inside, straight gauge.

I just found a very nice 12"Kitchen Aid fry pan that's 5mm thick and non-stick. (only 24.99 at Target) Now the trick is to find the same thing lined in stainless for the rest of the cookware.

I know about the 4mm MC2 by All-Clad, but the price

Any suggestions for SS clad thick AL cookware?

[Smithy]

Mm. Offhand I don't have an answer, but I have a question: why aluminum on the outside? Not that there's anything wrong with it. I'm just curious about why it's a preference.

[Linda Rose]

If you compare AC stainless to AC MC2, you'll see a marked difference in thicknesses. Stainless, AL, Stainless is a thinner sandwich than Stainless, AL I want the thicker gauge of aluminum. I've been able to find it all over with non-stick inside, but only in All-Clad with Stainless inside.

I haven't been able to figure out why adding a second layer of stainless to the outside of a pan should make it thinner

[tim]

I've been looking to replace my 30 year old revereware, and with much research, I have decided to try to get cookware that is thick aluminum outside, stainless inside, straight gauge.

I just found a very nice 12"Kitchen Aid fry pan that's 5mm thick and non-stick. (only 24.99 at Target)  Now the trick is to find the same thing lined in stainless for the rest of the cookware.

I know about the 4mm MC2 by All-Clad, but the price

Any suggestions for SS clad thick AL cookware?

←

Linda,

The All-Clad Masterchef was 3.94mm thick. All-Clad introduced the MC2 as an improvement with the polished handles. Actually they put the MC2 on a diet and it is now just over 3mm.

Recently, I saw some All-Clad MC2 cookware with the thicker Masterchef pan bottom. Figure that!

You might want to look at Vollrath's Tribute cookware.

Tim

[menon1971]

Mm.  Offhand I don't have an answer, but I have a question: why aluminum on the outside?  Not that there's anything wrong with it.  I'm just curious about why it's a preference.

←

Aluminum conducts heat much better than stainless, thus it is more heat responsive.

I've been looking to replace my 30 year old revereware, and with much research, I have decided to try to get cookware that is thick aluminum outside, stainless inside, straight gauge.

I just found a very nice 12"Kitchen Aid fry pan that's 5mm thick and non-stick. (only 24.99 at Target)  Now the trick is to find the same thing lined in stainless for the rest of the cookware.

I know about the 4mm MC2 by All-Clad, but the price

Any suggestions for SS clad thick AL cookware?

←

Linda,

The All-Clad Masterchef was 3.94mm thick. All-Clad introduced the MC2 as an improvement with the polished handles. Actually they put the MC2 on a diet and it is now just over 3mm.

Recently, I saw some All-Clad MC2 cookware with the thicker Masterchef pan bottom. Figure that!

You might want to look at Vollrath's Tribute cookware.

Tim

←

I agree with Tim, you should check out what is available from you local restaurant supply company. The stuff you are likely to find won't be as pretty as AC, but it will be much cheaper and perform just as well.

[KensethFan]

You could always look into Sitram. Look at the Catering line. These are great pans and they are not nearly as expensive as overpriced AC. The catering line is SS with a copper core. You can look at them at: www.sitramcookware.com. The best price I have found for Sitram cookware, especially this Catering line is at Amazon.com.

I've been using this cookware for quite a while now. Great performance!!!

[Linda Rose]

You could always look into Sitram.  Look at the Catering line.  These are great pans and they are not nearly as expensive as overpriced AC.  The catering line is SS with a copper core. 

←

Now if Sitram was straight gauge I'd be sold. However it is only copper bottomed. I have my heart set on the straight gauge stuff for sauce and saucier pans at least, and I'm looking for AL because it's cheaper than CU

You might want to look at Vollrath's Tribute cookware.

Tim

←

I found a Vollrath Intrigue Stainless saute pan with 1/4" clad AL bottom. As it is a saute pan, where I'll only be using the bottom for heat, I bought it. (11" size, $45 at a local foodservice store)

Still looking for the Tribute line. I guess I'll have to drive to downtown Detroit or even Windsor to check out the five or so stores I've been able to locate there. I know I could internet order, but I'm funny, I like to feel and lift the stuff before I buy.

[logicalmind]

Keep in mind that you can save money on AC by shopping for seconds.

http://www.cookwarenmore.com/

[Linda Rose]

I'm not in the market for these, but if there's anyone out there looking in the Ann Arbor MI area for All-Clad copper core, there were two at Marshall's in Arborland for cheap!

An 8 qt stock pot like this: http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=130

And another that was similar to this: http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=5930 , but my memory says it was a bit bigger.

One was $199, the other was $229. I forget which was which price.

[mcohen]

why is the superior steel line considered superior to the master chef 2 line when the mc2 has 2 mm more aluminum? shouldn't that make the mc2 superior to the stainless steel then?

[tim]

Hi,

What objective source considers the Stainless line to be superior to the MC2?

Actually the stainless pans are about 2.5mm thick with about 0.9mm of lining. That nets 1.6mm of aluminum. The MC2 pans are about 3.4mm thick with about .44mm of lining. That nets about 3mm of aluminum or close to double the thickness of the conductive material.

I agree with your logic on the performance advantage of the MC2 pans.

All-Clad claims that all of their pans perform equally well and tout the cleaning advantage and beauty of the Stainless line.

The All-Clad representatives understand that the Stainless line is the one that is being sought by new cooks. Their representatives are telling their merchants that the Stainless pans actually outperform the MC2 pans because of their lower mass and heat retention. (Really, a store owner told me the whole story!) They point out that inexperienced cooks tend to burn foods when they cook with a pan that heats up quickly and retains heat.

If you believe this, you should really want to buy some of those paper thin Regal aluminum pans.

Tim