Turkey Stuffing / Dressing

[jo-mel]

Why don't you all make your stuffings, and I will do a taste test on all of them ------and tell you which one is the best.

Make enough, because I might have to go back for seconds--- just to make sure.

[robyn]

As noted above - the difference between stuffing and dressing is one is cooked in the bird - one isn't. I always found that stuffing came out entirely too greasy - so I'd take it out of the bird - and then mix it 1/2 and 1/2 with the "dry" stuffing I hadn't put in the bird. The oven brown the whole thing. Big pain.

I found a terrific recipe a few years ago in the NYT for Sausage Stuffing (actually it's dressing) with Carmelized Onions and Fennel and Leeks. Adapted from a Tom Colicchio Craft recipe. Can't find the link on the NYT - and if I could - it would be a paid link by now. I'd be glad to paraphrase the recipe here if the PTB won't delete my message for possible copyright issues. Otherwise - email me - and I'll fax it to you. It is moist - not greasy - and delicious. Robyn

[fifi]

I am thinking that the cornbread dressing may be a "southern thang". The recipe I posted is the results of an effort to recreate my mother's dressing to suit the kids. She never made it by measure and neither did I. The kids pronounced this recipe as "the authentic one" and I let them believe that. Actually, she was always messin' with it by adding other things, varying seasonings and such. But, I'm not going to tell the kids... and don't you dare either. We always did it in pans outside of the bird. And... come to think of it, it probably came from my grandmother and great aunt originally, and maybe from some of their ancestors.

[Toliver]

I am thinking that the cornbread dressing may be a "southern thang".

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fifi, I've been thinking about that ever since this discussion appeared. It would really have to be a "Southern thang" since true Southern corn bread isn't made with sugar. With that revelation, corn bread stuffing makes perfect sense.

That's why it was such a foreign idea to me..."stuffing made from corn bread?! Why would anyone eat a sweet stuffing?" Of course, sweet corn bread is the only corn bread I've ever eaten (and have since become accustomed to, as egregious as it is to y'all down south).

Imagine making stuffing from Marie Callendar's corn bread which is more like sweet cake.

So you are dead-on with your thinkin'...

[phifly04]

mom always made her Stuffing(never heard of "Dressing till i was in my twentys)white bread,onions,celery,loads of sage and some celery seedsand cooked some in the cavity and some seperate,but moistened nicely with the turkey stock---and always have a turkey,stuffing and cran-mayo sandwich next day---damn good !!!

Dave s

[Jaymes]

Having lived all over the world, including some twenty or so US states, but with a "Southern" heritage, I can assure all y'all that the difference between "stuffing" and "dressing" is simply regional nomenclature. There is no other distinction, unless someone wants to make one up to suit themselves.

"Dressing" is just what some folks refer to when they're talking about "fixing up" something. You can dress a salad, or a hot dog, or a deer, or a leg of lamb, or your puppy, or your ownself, or whatever. In this case, a turkey.

I never in all my early born days had a pan of cornbread dressing that was cooked outside of the turkey cavity. It was stuffed up inside and it was always referred to as "dressing."

When our large southern family got together, we usually had two big turkeys, and the cornbread dressing was shoved up inside. I remember once when my Aunt Stella Mae tried to bake a side dish of it, no one would eat it because they said it was "dry." You NEVER called it "stuffing." At one Thanksgiving dinner, fifty-some years ago when I was about eight, we had company from up north and the guest asked if there was any "stuffing," and my grandmother said, "Down here we call it 'dressing,' dear" and she passed the cornbread dressing. And later, after our guest had left, I asked Grammy about it and she said, "I guess she wanted that ol' gummy Yankee white bread mess that they call 'stuffing' up there."

I now put half of the cornbread dressing up in the turkey, and bake another pan of it just because it's so popular at our gatherings that what's up in the turkey isn't nearly enough. To try to offset the dryness of the pan-baked portion, I add extra chicken broth, melted butter, and a raw egg or two.

But some of it is stuffed and some of it ain't and it's all damn sure cornbread dressing.

Edited November 3, 2004 by Jaymes (log)

[bavila]

Thanks for starting the thread, Bleach Boy -- I was thinking of doing the same myself.

I'm down with the cornbread and sausage (Jimmy Dean-esque) dressing. I always think about experimenting with Thanksgiving dishes, but my family balks. If I want to experiment, it's on TOP of all the must-haves. Our family cornbread dressing is along the lines of Bleach Boy's recipe, but with ground pork sausage instead of andouille. And true to my Louisiana hreitage, lots of Tony Chachere's seasoning.

The cornbread is crucial. Must be fresh and from scratch (it's really so easy, so what's with the Jiffy?). And NO sugar! That will just give you cake.

Now that I live in Maryland, I'm tempted to get into the oyster thing. But maybe for Christmas. Anyone have a good recipe?

[MArkF]

mom always made her Stuffing(never heard of "Dressing till i was in my twentys)white bread,onions,celery,loads of sage and some celery seedsand cooked some in the cavity and some seperate,but moistened nicely with the turkey stock---and always have a turkey,stuffing and cran-mayo sandwich next day---damn good !!!

                                         Dave s

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I agree with this...simple..have found to many times that one cant taste the bird for the stuffing. IMHO, stuffing/dressing should be a side to the bird, not the other way around...

Mark

Edited November 3, 2004 by MArkF (log)

[Jaymes]

Cornbread stuffing is interesting, and I enjoy it when it is served to me, but its not what we had when we grew up.

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And that's really what's it's all about during these traditional holidays. We want what we had when we were growing up, taking part in these rituals, gathered around our family table.

My very first memories of Thanksgiving dinner were at my grandmother's house. The saintly person we called "Old Grandma" did the cooking. Old Grandma was my grandmother's mother. She died in 1955 at the age of 104. The recipe for cornbread dressing that I use had its base with Old Grandma, and probably went back even further than that.

Each generation of cooks, including my grandmother, my mother, and I, have "tinkered" with it. I sometimes add a dash of poultry seasoning, for example. I don't think that was even available in the days when I hung around my grandmother's kitchen, watching fascinated as Old Grandma hunched over a huge ceramic bowl, her skinny arm and bony fingers revolving as she slowly mixed the dressing.

For whatever it's worth, I'm adding a list of the ingredients I use. As with most recipes of this type, handed down through the generations, the amounts listed are just suggestions. Actually, since I'm sorta trying to remember this as I go along, they're more like guesses, so anyone that wants to give this a go, take your time and use your best judgment and if it doesn't work out, well hey, there's always Stove Top.

Southern Cornbread Dressing

1 C white bread crumbs (okay, so I use Pepperidge Farm Herb Stuffing)

3 C cornbread crumbs (from your own unsweetened cornbread recipe)

2 onions, chopped

2 C celery, chopped

1/4 cup butter

2 hard-cooked eggs, chopped

3 T chopped parsley

2 tsp poultry seasoning, or thyme, or other favorite herb

1 1/2 t sage

1 1/2 t granulated chicken bouillion (or to taste; I use this instead of salt, if you don't like it, use salt)

1 t ground black pepper

dash nutmeg

2 raw eggs, beaten slightly

1/4 C chicken broth

Put the butter and the onions and the celery in a glass cup and microwave briefly until the vegetables are limp. Set aside.

In a large bowl, combine all of the dry ingredients and stir until well mixed.

Combine the beaten eggs and the chicken broth. Add them to the melted butter and vegetables and combine. Add the wet ingredients to the dressing and stir until well combined. Taste for seasonings in bite that doesn't have any onion in it, and correct seasonings.

Stuff into turkey cavity, or turn out into baking dish. I add a little extra melted butter and chicken broth if I'm going to be baking it in a pan.

Edited November 3, 2004 by Jaymes (log)

[reesek]

The turkey (which I'll buy and brine, then another couple of guys are gonna fry it)

so you can't/won't stuff it...sigh. it's just so much better when it gets all slickery.

i'm not hosting this year and my host plans to grill the bird...would that mean we can't stuff?

if i were to host, here's what i would do:

make rich, luscious turkey stock - which is also essential for decent gravy...especially if you stuff.

cube a couple loaves of good white bread and let the cubes dry overnight

saute lots of pork breakfast sausage

add chopped onion & celery and some criminis to the rendered fat, add chopped sage and thyme.

stir in the cubed bread and moisten with a mixture of butter and stock.

fill the bird. several hours later cause major distraction in kitchen and gobble crusty stuffing cap while eunny and chezcherie aren't looking.

[chezcherie]

The turkey (which I'll buy and brine, then another couple of guys are gonna fry it)

so you can't/won't stuff it...sigh. it's just so much better when it gets all slickery.

i'm not hosting this year and my host plans to grill the bird...would that mean we can't stuff?

if i were to host, here's what i would do:

make rich, luscious turkey stock - which is also essential for decent gravy...especially if you stuff.

cube a couple loaves of good white bread and let the cubes dry overnight

saute lots of pork breakfast sausage

add chopped onion & celery and some criminis to the rendered fat, add chopped sage and thyme.

stir in the cubed bread and moisten with a mixture of butter and stock.

fill the bird. several hours later cause major distraction in kitchen and gobble crusty stuffing cap while eunny and chezcherie aren't looking.

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i am always looking.

[Jaymes]

make rich, luscious turkey stock - which is also essential for decent gravy...especially if you stuff.

Yep. You're really right about that. I boil the neck and gizzards, liver, heart, etc., to make a wonderful turkey stock, which is what I use for the giblet gravy.

In my early wifely years, I'd buy a separate small turkey breast, or leg or something and make additional stock a day or so before to add to the dressing, since I use all my giblet stock for the gravy.

But I don't do that anymore. Guess I'm just getting lazy as I begin contemplating picking up my first social security check.

Ah well.

[emilymarie]

I actually take my "stuffing" (from NJ, born and bred) inspiration from--meep--Martha Stewart. My mother was never someone who loved to cook and as a child she always relied on the already-bagged, dried stuff. The real cook in the family, my grandmother, is Italian and so stuffing was not something that she ate that much growing up. It was not part of her diet, and she doesn't have a certain, tried and true way of making it.

So, it was up to me to tweak with the stuffing recipe. I actually don't use a recipe but use a mix of stale, cubed bread (I like a nice crusty loaf of artisanal bread from which I may or may not remove the crust) which I mix with some cornbread (made from mix), cooked, crumbled sausage (no fennel seeds, thank you), diced celery and onion sauteed in butter and oil, toasted pecans, and dried cherries. I finish it off with fresh, chopped flat leaf parsley, dots of butter, and chicken/turkey stock and bake it in a buttered 13x9 in. pan.

Now, my question is--how do you make turkey stock? Do you use the heart and livers? Carrots, celery, onions?

[reesek]

for stock making it is definitely traditional to use the gizzard and heart and neck - i think the liver makes the stock bitter and cloudy (am i making this up?) my mom just used to broil it and eat it. i don't like the innards but love the neck...what i usually do is buy an extra package of bones - backs, wings, whatever...around thanksgiving there are often packaged "stock" bones. if not - i've never had trouble when i've asked the butcher.

i hack the bones up - LOTS of them, cover with cold water and yes -- i use carrots (scrubbed and cut in thirds or so - same with a couple of celery stalks (with leaves!) a couple leeks and onion - quartered - a few peppercorns and a bay leaf.

boil, skim, simmer until it smells like the 50's. strain through cheesecloth.

[Jaymes]

for stock making it is definitely traditional to use the gizzard and heart and neck - i think the liver makes the stock bitter and cloudy (am i making this up?)

This may be true...I don't know. I've never noticed it being bitter, and since I use the giblet stock for my gravy, which is of course cloudy, wouldn't notice that part, either.

I do put the liver in last, and just for a very few minutes since it doesn't take long to cook, and then chop it up along with the other organ meats, and pull the meat from the neck. I also chop up a hard-cooked egg, and add that, too, to the giblet gravy.

You could be right....again...I've never personally noticed it.

[emilymarie]

boil, skim, simmer until it smells like the 50's. strain through cheesecloth.

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[forever_young_ca]

I make the turkey stock a few days before from turkey bones bought separately, onions, celery and carrots. Simmer as per the egullet class for about 4-5 hours or overnight, depending upon my schedule. This is then used to moisten the dressing/stuffing and making the gravy.

I stuff the turkey cavity with the stuffing of choice. I also do a side dish of dressing in which I place the neck and giblets in the middle of the casserole dish, surrounded by dressing. The neck and giblets flavour the dressing and they come out moist and succulent and are available for those who like to eat all these bits - me My favourite is the heart.

The liver goes to the cats

Where I am from in Canada, it is called dressing regardless if it is inside or outside of the bird. Stuffing is not a term commonly used.

[lesfen]

To egg or not to egg? I don't do cornbread stuffing (my aunt used to make cornbread dressing and when she'd show up with it, there would always be holes in the foil that covered it... At 5 years old I decided that I wouldn't eat anything that ate through foil), but do you guys use eggs in your "white bread" stuffings? I've seen recipes both ways, but I tend to think it makes it too gummy, and frankly, just weird!

[lesfen]

To egg or not to egg? I don't do cornbread stuffing (my aunt used to make cornbread dressing and when she'd show up with it, there would always be holes in the foil that covered it... At 5 years old I decided that I wouldn't eat anything that ate through foil), but do you guys use eggs in your "white bread" stuffings? I've seen recipes both ways, but I tend to think it makes it too gummy, and frankly, just weird!

[Jaymes]

Where I am from in Canada, it is called dressing regardless if it is inside or outside of the bird.  Stuffing is not a term commonly used.

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Wow. That's really interesting. I wonder how that happened? I just always thought 'dressing' was used south of the Mason Dixon line. That is intriguing.

[Jaymes]

The problem is that everyone in my family and in Rachel's family, and pretty much all New York Metro Jews have only one thing in mind when they think "Stuffing" to accompany a turkey or chicken on a major holiday (which includes Passover, Rosh Hashanah, Erev Yom Kippur and Thanksgiving) and that is Stove Top, or alternatively Pepperidge Farm which has been "doctored" with lots of good stock and mushrooms, onions, celery and garlic.

I simply can't get this concept out of my mind.

I actually remember when Stove Top came out, and it wasn't in anybody's great granny's heyday. What did your families do before Stove Top? SOMEBODY's grandmother must have been making it from scratch. Why didn't it get passed down from generation to generation like other great culinary traditions?

I am sure that the basic recipe I use, like many others in this thread, was the same basic recipe used back 150 years in my family. Sure, there has been tinkering, and minor additions, but if my great, great, great grandmother suddenly appeared in my kitchen, she'd recognize that dressing as being pretty much the same as hers.

Jason, when you and Rachel and other "New York Metro Jews" talk to the matriarchs of your family, what were they using BEFORE Stove Top? And why did those traditions fall by the wayside?

[Jason Perlow]

Well, I am assuming this all started in the 1950's when convenience products started to become in vogue. Prior to that its hard to say if they even celebrated Thanksgiving in the traditional manner.

Although, Stove Top stuffing wasnt introduced to the market until 1972. So maybe this more or less started when I was little when my parents generation started hosting their own Thanksgivings. But I am sure there were stuffing convenience products before that.

EDIT: Pepperidge Farm Stuffing apparently was developed and marketed in the 1940's. So this would be consistent with it being used in family gatherings during my parents generation.

http://www.pepperidgefarm.com/history_1940s.asp

[elfin]

What do oysters add to the flavor? Does it taste fishy? Does it taste like mushrooms? Do you use fresh shucked? Do you use the 'liquor' or do you drain the oyster? My stuffing is a mix of old breads-rolls, sliced bread which is cubed then toasted to a nice brown. My celery and onions have been sauteed in tons of butter. The ingredients are mixed and extra butter water is added for moisture. Tons of dried sage is added with salt and pepper. Hubby likes to have cooked pork sausage added. The bird is stuffed and extras are put into a butter lined baking dish for baking. I love to eat the the 'raw' mixture!

[Jaymes]

To egg or not to egg?  ...but do you guys use eggs in your "white bread" stuffings?  I've seen recipes both ways, but I tend to think it makes it too gummy, and frankly, just weird! 

Until a true Yankee steps in and answers your question, I'll volunteer an un-expert opinion.

I do from time to time make white-bread based stuffings -- oyster, sausage, apple, etc., although not for the traditional holidays of Thanksgiving or Christmas, because my little ritual-loving family wouldn't stand for that.

When I make a white-bread-based stuffing/dressing, I never add raw eggs (although I always do with the cornbread dressing). I frankly never even thought about doing it, believing that the white bread likely isn't strong enough to hold up to the raw eggs. It'd probably turn out more like white bread pudding.

In my cornbread dressing, you can't really tell that raw eggs were added. It just makes it more moist and helps bind it together. After all, I'm talking about 2 eggs to some 7 cups of other ingredients.

Edited November 5, 2004 by Jaymes (log)

[Jason Perlow]

BTW, here is an interesting page with the "original" Pepperidge Farm stuffing recipe, written by Margaret Rudkin, the founder of the company:

http://www.lysator.liu.se/etexts/recept/us...ad-stuff-1.html