Vegetarian Restaurant Turn-Offs

[lesfen]

I love vegetarian dishes and for the most part, I've had good experiences in vegetarian restaurants. No one makes a better cup of gazpacho... around here anyway. The only bad ones would have been bad no matter what they served.

I know some people, like my father, who don't feel like they've eaten a complete meal if there isn't any meat in it. That's just how he feels and you can't tell him any different.

[jennahan]

I have to agree with many of those who say that one of the problems with vegetarian restaurants is the fact that they try and make carnivorous dishes with meat substitutes.

I am an omnivore and enjoy meat dishes, as well as vegetarian dishes. The vegetarian dishes I eat at those which just happen to be vegetarian (many pastas, salads, soups, stews, indian, etc), not are consciously so. They celebrate the wonderful taste and integrity of the vegetable, instead of trying to disguise it as something else. (PS, I agree that tofu is something which is best enjoyed as itself, not disguise as some faux-meat).

My son's dinner is vegetarian (just easier to focus lunch as primary meat/fish meal and dinner as primary veggie meal), and thus have found myself in the situation of ending up at a vegan vegetarian restaurant once. This was indeed dire. I'm not saying that the food that a vegan-vegetarian eats is in general disgusting, just that this place was revevolting. I had some kind of brazilian bread which was "cheese" flavoured (tasted like plastic, and had the texture of plastic too), a vegan spinace-tofu "quiche"-uggg, again plastic, but revolting tasting, and one tofu bolognaise which also was surprisingly bland. Why make menu with such fare when they could have things like butternut squash tagine, pasta with smothered onions, pinenuts, and sultanas, or even ratatouille!

[jsolomon]

On the other side of the coin from faux-meat dishes, I have been to a couple vegetarian places that err on the other side of the coin. Their dishes are so off the wall and incongruous that I left feeling like I had just gone through an art show where three-year olds had attempted to paint like Van Gogh. The composition and balance was not just off, it was schizoid and unencumbered by the requirement of being very enjoyable.

I should have known that I was sunk when I was taken to a "Vegetarian Cuisine" restaurant. No one I know has ever visited Vegetaria, nor emigrated from there.

I can understand vegetarian restaurants that do things like Vegetarian Italian cuisine, or Chinese, etc. Things where I can understand the basis and composition of the dishes, but I've been to so many where it seems like the person just throws darts at their list of available ingredients and cooking methods to fill out their menu that I don't have the hope that I should.

And, it's sad, because I really enjoy a mushroom and pickled pepper filling on a potato roll for lunch.

Edit to add: why is it that at non-vegetarian places with well-designed vegetarian dishes, my sexualityy gets called into question when I order vegetarian dishes?

Edited October 10, 2005 by jsolomon (log)

[petite tête de chou]

Interesting point. This brings up the prejudice that you're not a "manly man" unless you dine exclusively on meat, potatoes, cheetos and beer. I've seen male friends treated differently by acquaintances after saying that they're either 1) trying to lose weight ("get back into fighting shape" that is, never using the word "diet") or 2) a vegetarian. Asinine.

[goldie]

I think part of the difficulties of vegetarian cuisine is that in restaurants they try to satisfy too broad a market. For example, I enjoy a meatless meals quite often. Just the other day my son asked me when we were going to have meat or chicken again. However, when I don't eat meat I am usually using dairy products such as cheese, milk, and often eggs. But, when I've been in vegetarian restaurants they have either been strictly macrobiotic or vegan or they try to label everything as ovo or lacto , etc. That is fine in a cookbook, however in a restaurant it doesn't translate well for a carnivore. Also, so many of the things I have had, especially at the macrobiotic restaurant I go to with my practicing mother-in-law, have been horribly overcooked and underseasoned. I hope that is just that particular restaurant, though.

In addition to the other differences noted, I would argue that mouth feel becomes an issue. When you are eating a lot of meat you get used to the feel of fat coating your tongue. The best vegetarian food I've had isn't as greasy and not as filling in the traditional sense.

[mizducky]

Those of you who have had such lousy experiences at vegetarian restaurants--well, I dunno what to say. I have been to a bunch of vegetarian restaurants and can't think of one I've been to that I thought of as lousy--and in fact, found several to be excellent. Maybe I've just had the good luck to live in places where there was enough of a vegetarian population to create demand for good vegetarian restaurants.

[purplewiz]

I have two problems with vegetarian restaurants.

The first is purely personal - we eat a high protein, reduced carbohydrate eating plan. Sadly, this doesn't leave too many purely vegetarian options.

The second is best told anecdotally. Some years ago, when we were still living in the Bay Area, my vegetarian sister was visiting the area over her birthday, and wanted to have her birthday dinner at Greens. It sounded fine to me (this was before we changed how we eat), so reservations were made and we all went.

While I don't remember the dinner in detail, I do remember one course was vegetables served en papillote, and the vegetables were absolutely perfectly cooked. The main course was a vegetable pasta with a lemon sauce, nicely balanced, and well done. Dessert was a flourless chocolate cake.

It was, in short, an exquisite meal. And halfway home, my husband and I stopped for a burger.

Because we were still hungry.

My best guess is that over time, you and your body learn to feel full on vegetables, but even though I know they served plenty of food, and it was good food, it just wasn't providing the signals I was used to. It made it sadly unsatisfying.

Marcia.

[Pan]

Those of you who have had such lousy experiences at vegetarian restaurants--well, I dunno what to say. I have been to a bunch of vegetarian restaurants and can't think of one I've been to that I thought of as lousy--and in fact, found several to be excellent. Maybe I've just had the good luck to live in places where there was enough of a vegetarian population to create demand for good vegetarian restaurants.

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The West Coast has such great produce. Was it different for you when you were living out east?

[mizducky]

Those of you who have had such lousy experiences at vegetarian restaurants--well, I dunno what to say. I have been to a bunch of vegetarian restaurants and can't think of one I've been to that I thought of as lousy--and in fact, found several to be excellent. Maybe I've just had the good luck to live in places where there was enough of a vegetarian population to create demand for good vegetarian restaurants.

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The West Coast has such great produce. Was it different for you when you were living out east?

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Weeeeelllll ... when I was waltzing around with quasi-vegetarianism back on the East Coast, it was mainly in and around Boston/Cambridge, which I have often joked is the East Coast's most West-Coast-like city. Okay, well, that's admittedly an over-exaggeration. But Boston's huge student population seems to encourage a community interest in vegetarianism and other alternative/counter-cultural ways of life like unto the West Coast, which IMO influenced the availability of some decent vegetarian eats.

I suspect, though, that if I'd tried to find good vegetarian dining in other parts of the East Coast--say out in the suburbs of New York where I grew up--that I'd have had a much harder time of it.

IMO, access to good ingredients is only part of the equation--an important part, to be sure, but not sufficient in itself. Cooking professionals who truly understand the cuisine is another part, and a population interested and numerous enough to financially support those professionals is another. (Which IMO can be said about many other cuisines besides vegetarian, actually ... )

[lesfen]

I have two problems with vegetarian restaurants.

The first is purely personal - we eat a high protein, reduced carbohydrate eating plan. Sadly, this doesn't leave too many purely vegetarian options.

The second is best told anecdotally. Some years ago, when we were still living in the Bay Area, my vegetarian sister was visiting the area over her birthday, and wanted to have her birthday dinner at Greens. It sounded fine to me (this was before we changed how we eat), so reservations were made and we all went.

While I don't remember the dinner in detail, I do remember one course was vegetables served en papillote, and the vegetables were absolutely perfectly cooked. The main course was a vegetable pasta with a lemon sauce, nicely balanced, and well done. Dessert was a flourless chocolate cake.

It was, in short, an exquisite meal. And halfway home, my husband and I stopped for a burger.

Because we were still hungry.

My best guess is that over time, you and your body learn to feel full on vegetables, but even though I know they served plenty of food, and it was good food, it just wasn't providing the signals I was used to. It made it sadly unsatisfying.

Marcia.

←

Yeah... Yeah! That's it! I love veg food, but I never feel quite satisfied if I eat a veg place. Ricky Li's... schezuan eggplant. I left feeling very satisfied. Full, even. The now defunct Zephyr Cafe... gazpacho start and tofu wraps with rice noodles (delicious, BTW, generous portions). I was starvin' like marvin when I left.

[fifi]

As you might guess, there aren't a lot of vegetarian restaurants where I live. I am told by friends that there are some based on traditional cuisines (such as Indian) but I have never been. The ones that I have been to (not often) here have too much of the hippie/political slant to the whole issue such that I didn't go back and they didn't survive very long anyway.

Now, a good vegetarian dish can have a lot of appeal to me. I have been known to dine meatless in some of my favorite Indian restaurants and have been well pleased. There is an old favorite "hippie dippie" place, not really vegetarian but with veggie options, here called The Hobbit that was the first such place in Houston about 25 years ago. I still go there for the Gandalf sandwich, avocado and provolone cheese mostly, that is a delicious invention. We make various versions of it at home all of the time. I particularly like to add my own home grown lentil sprouts. (But I have been known to add bacon.)

Anyway, there are a lot of vegetarian dishes that are positively delicious. When they are served up without a lot of proselytizing baggage, they can be very enjoyable. I have even been known to cook meatless a couple of days a week just because I enjoy the dish. However, I would have a hard time doing without the dairy component. Some of the Indian dishes that I enjoy include the use of ghee.

I really don't understand the above mentioned bean prejudice. I guess I have never run into it. Beans are a wonderful food and are a part of our regional cuisine. Bean salsas are a terrific, and healthy, snack food. When invited to gatherings of friends, one requirement is that I bring one of my bean salsas.

After all of that blathering about my experience with vegetarian cuisine, and to answer the question posed at the beginning . . . The biggest turn-off in most of the vegetarian restaurants I have been to is the moral/political aspects of the place and lousy food.

[liv4fud]

real quick, don't forget the importance of bread!

especially eating indian food, go for the good carb in paratha, chapati/roti (check the section on north indian breads in egci) if you are a good carb or low carb person. and eat more. meat eaters have a little bit of portion control pre-program that would need to be reset for this part. eat till you are almost full to say about 75% leaving a little room for desert / water. you will be fine...

if you need any specific recos regarding menus (and even some places in chicagoland) I can be of some help

[Milagai]

I have two problems with vegetarian restaurants.

The first is purely personal - we eat a high protein, reduced carbohydrate eating plan. Sadly, this doesn't leave too many purely vegetarian options.

The second is best told anecdotally. Some years ago, when we were still living in the Bay Area, my vegetarian sister was visiting the area over her birthday, and wanted to have her birthday dinner at Greens. It sounded fine to me (this was before we changed how we eat), so reservations were made and we all went.

While I don't remember the dinner in detail, I do remember one course was vegetables served en papillote, and the vegetables were absolutely perfectly cooked. The main course was a vegetable pasta with a lemon sauce, nicely balanced, and well done. Dessert was a flourless chocolate cake.

It was, in short, an exquisite meal. And halfway home, my husband and I stopped for a burger.

Because we were still hungry.

My best guess is that over time, you and your body learn to feel full on vegetables, but even though I know they served plenty of food, and it was good food, it just wasn't providing the signals I was used to. It made it sadly unsatisfying.

Marcia.

←

Yeah... Yeah! That's it! I love veg food, but I never feel quite satisfied if I eat a veg place. Ricky Li's... schezuan eggplant. I left feeling very satisfied. Full, even. The now defunct Zephyr Cafe... gazpacho start and tofu wraps with rice noodles (delicious, BTW, generous portions). I was starvin' like marvin when I left.

←

Friends: a vegetarian diet NE eating only vegetables.

Your meal lacked any protein component (beans, tofu, whatever)

so no wonder you felt hungry. Don't blame the concept when

the application was lacking....

Milagai

[jsolomon]

Those of you who have had such lousy experiences at vegetarian restaurants--well, I dunno what to say. I have been to a bunch of vegetarian restaurants and can't think of one I've been to that I thought of as lousy--and in fact, found several to be excellent. Maybe I've just had the good luck to live in places where there was enough of a vegetarian population to create demand for good vegetarian restaurants.

←

Don't get me wrong, I've been to a couple (unfortunately, not around here) that have been quite good. Locally, I've even had some vegetarian dishes that were really good. But, at the local joints, the dishes that I had that were good were generally footnotes on the menu. The ones that highlighted their vegetarian cuisine either just served the same oversteamed sides you'd find at a typical joint as main dishes, or served the schizoid type of things that I'd need to go on a serious Mary Jane bender on to really enjoy appropriately.

[Pontormo]

I have two problems with vegetarian restaurants.

The first is purely personal - we eat a high protein, reduced carbohydrate eating plan. Sadly, this doesn't leave too many purely vegetarian options.

Marcia.

←

Marcia:

As a disclaimer, let me say first I am an omnivore who eats produce (vegetables & fruit) probably more than anything else due to personal inclination. I do not eat a lot of protein, but enough to meet current daily requirements. What I do not eat in great quanitities are grains.

I have started to read more on nutrition and have recently purchased the CIA's

Techniques of Healty Cooking, second edition, part of its Professional Chef series. (I wanted something with an emphasis on food written by culinary experts vs. a doctor's advice on ways to look younger, live longer by eating uninspired meals.) I quote page 6 of a very concise discussion of basic elements of nutrition:

"Carbohydrates are the preferred energy source of the brain and nervous system. They provide energy for muscle movement and red blood cells, and play a role in the regulation of fat metabolism. Fifty-five to sixty percent of a person's daily calories should come from carbohydrates."

Of course, many Americans swear by the kind of dietary practices you and your husband decided to follow when the idea of low-carb eating became popular. I do not wish to get off topic here.

However, I wonder if Greens might have been more satisfying to you had you eaten (more?) pasta, rice or good filling bread along with the meal you say you enjoyed in other respects.

One recipe that I cook at least once a year is the black bean chili from the cookbook that Deborah Madison named after the restaurant you visited. That cookbook became popular among the pot luck crowd in Ann Arbor when I lived there. Its appeal was the sophistication of the dishes. Deborah Madison and her restaurant were inspiring to home cooks who wanted to get away from the brown rice and cheese encrusted stir fries that gave vegetarianism a bad name. Her later publications offer recipes that are far simpler, involve fewer ingredients and take less time to prepare. However, in that earlier book, the complexity of dishes such as hand-rolled cannelloni filled with beet greens with a walnut sauce was a necessary first step in tempering the bad reputation that vegetarian restaurants suffered for so long.

[Sam Salmon]

I've followed this thread with interest-my 'hood is replete with veggie options of many varieties but only the ones with strong ethnic roots are worth the time IMO.

For instance today I had a wonderful bike ride with an old friend, being Fall we were a bit chilled so she suggested a bowl of soup in a tiny veggie café.

The soup there in the past has been excellent but of late less than worth wile however since her heart was set on the place I concurred.

As mentioned in many posts here the product was distinctive only in terms of what was left out.

Rarely have Lentils and Split Peas played a smaller role in soup named after them-the product was pap.

Never again!

[Rebecca263]

Other than my sister and cousin's wonderful chicken soup with matzoh balls, my favorite soups are pureed vegetable soups. I've loved them in vegan (Sally's), vegetarian(Here Comes The Sun) and nonvegetarian(Da Leo) restaurants. However, since leaving Miami and moving to NJ I have only had them at home, I wonder where we can go for those around here?

[purplewiz]

Your meal lacked any protein component (beans, tofu, whatever)

so no wonder you felt hungry.  Don't blame the concept when

the application was lacking....

←

However, I wonder if Greens might have been more satisfying to you had you eaten (more?) pasta, rice or good filling bread along with the meal you say you enjoyed in other respects. 

←

I think I forgot to mention in my earlier posting that the dinner that night was a fixed menu - the only choices were if you wanted drinks or dessert. It was also years before we'd changed our eating habits, so the pasta (and I think there was a bread basket, but this was many years ago, before I was really a foodie! ) should have been just fine - but again, I don't remember it in detail. I just remember stopping for a burger.

(And so as not to defocus this thread, I will be happy to address our current eating plan via PM.)

Marcia.

[lesfen]

I have two problems with vegetarian restaurants.

The first is purely personal - we eat a high protein, reduced carbohydrate eating plan. Sadly, this doesn't leave too many purely vegetarian options.

The second is best told anecdotally. Some years ago, when we were still living in the Bay Area, my vegetarian sister was visiting the area over her birthday, and wanted to have her birthday dinner at Greens. It sounded fine to me (this was before we changed how we eat), so reservations were made and we all went.

While I don't remember the dinner in detail, I do remember one course was vegetables served en papillote, and the vegetables were absolutely perfectly cooked. The main course was a vegetable pasta with a lemon sauce, nicely balanced, and well done. Dessert was a flourless chocolate cake.

It was, in short, an exquisite meal. And halfway home, my husband and I stopped for a burger.

Because we were still hungry.

My best guess is that over time, you and your body learn to feel full on vegetables, but even though I know they served plenty of food, and it was good food, it just wasn't providing the signals I was used to. It made it sadly unsatisfying.

Marcia.

←

Yeah... Yeah! That's it! I love veg food, but I never feel quite satisfied if I eat a veg place. Ricky Li's... schezuan eggplant. I left feeling very satisfied. Full, even. The now defunct Zephyr Cafe... gazpacho start and tofu wraps with rice noodles (delicious, BTW, generous portions). I was starvin' like marvin when I left.

←

Friends: a vegetarian diet NE eating only vegetables.

Your meal lacked any protein component (beans, tofu, whatever)

so no wonder you felt hungry. Don't blame the concept when

the application was lacking....

Milagai

←

Um... yeah. I didn't mean to blame the concept. I made a bad entree choice. It won't happen again. I chose what looked tasty... and it was extremely tasty.... it just wasn't very filling. Next time I'll just go for lunch.

[ratgirlny]

Places that bill themselves as a "vegetarian restaurant" (as opposed to ethnic places that happen to serve vegetarian dishes) tend to follow a certain style of cuisine which is boring and bland. The ones I have eaten in tend to do a mix n' match thing : plate of stirfried vegetables with your choice of a)tofu b)seitan c)soy cheese, accompanied by your choice of a)brown rice b)lentils c)quinoa.

Seasonings tend to be soy based (the ubiquitous tamari sauce) and sparse. The menus rarely mention anything about the actual taste of the food.

So yeah, I have a dislike for "vegetarian cuisine" as served in this kind of restaurant.

[Milagai]

I

←

←

Friends: a vegetarian diet NE eating only vegetables.

Your meal lacked any protein component (beans, tofu, whatever)

so no wonder you felt hungry. Don't blame the concept when

the application was lacking....

Milagai

←

Um... yeah. I didn't mean to blame the concept. I made a bad entree choice. It won't happen again. I chose what looked tasty... and it was extremely tasty.... it just wasn't very filling. Next time I'll just go for lunch.

←

this just happened to me!

lunch in the dept, arranged by the dean, whose very nice

staff went out of their way to ask me my food prefs so i said

"veg, thank you so much"....

the lunch box had:

wild rice with a few green sprinkles (tiny amount of chopped greens

of some kind)

PLUS

pasta with 2-3 slivers of veggies and some generic

creamy sauce!

a handful of sugar-coated pecans thrown in there like an

afterthought......

cookie etc.

that's it! carb + carb + carb (too few pecans to count) !!!

not much taste - all very bland..... (ultimate food sin

to me....)

i'm feeling bloated and hungry at the same time, and thinking

about raiding the thai restaurant across the street .....

milagai

Edited October 12, 2005 by Milagai (log)