Below Average Restaurants!

[Pweaver1984]

Not sure exactly how to word this post, although I kind of know what your responses could be. Its been bubbling up inside me for a while now.

Its basically about restaurants that I've visited that are simply not offering the goods in my area (Kent), and probably in yours too.

Its from major things (Off food/undercooked food/rude staff) down to some might call niggly things (things straight out of the fridge seem to be following me). There is a well publicised skills shortage in catering in the UK which I think is growing and growing. Restaurateurs and chefs lack of knowledge, skills and experience is hurting me.

Sorry about this rant which I've rushed a bit, just getting fed up. Michelin is probably the only guide I can trust, you know what your getting from their starred establishments, the AA recommendations have disappointed me a few times lately. I will check out the new Hardens to see what they say, as that is based on "peoples views".

What can we do apart from not go to these places (vote with our feet)? Tell trading standards if I feel I have been mugged e.g When I ask to see the owner I get told "I am the owner there was nothing wrong with that rack of lamb" Get out of my Restaurant"?

Naming and shaming is wrong on here to do so. When I tell friends they think my standards are too high, they're not. I just like my food, freshly cooked with a slight bit of care, attention, and presented and served with some style.

Love to hear Egulleters views on this...........

Cheers

Paul

[ginger chef]

i think you are going to be stepping on hot coals . hibiscus comes to mind.

[PassionateChefsDie]

You say you can trust Michelin I only followed a thread the other day that implied they like to take them away even less than they like to give them! I've maintained for a long time that if the industry didn't give these guides the credit there worth it might open it up! For example will we ever see a 3 star Indian/Chinese are we saying that there is no top end scale or that it doesn't compare to a french style service? My believe that its being compared to a french service well your never going to get that.

As for the general standard I'd say your in the minority, I've cooked in C&B's the standard sucks yet everyday they fill up, food comes out fast, for under a tenner you can eat 3 courses this is the majority of the customers opinion can I eat for under a tenner can I have it in 15mins even though every table is full! The staff are normally paid little above the minimum, the 2/3 chefs doing a saturday night service are normally paid little more, profit margins are being eaten up by making service supposedly easier(Taking the cooking out of it).

I dont believe that Joe bloggs really even knows what the AA rosette system is as for michelin that will be tyres! How many people know that at 1-2 rosette standard you to a certain extent can use frozen produce, I know of one up here with 1 rosette that uses frozen bread.

From another point of view I've spent 14 years in the trade have love for the craft, 5 years have spent at 3 rosette yet due to dead men shoes (or 2 man teams) never dying I never got promoted beyond CDP, so now they want to offer me CDP because the head chef worked at some local restaurant for 6 months got promoted but on paper he's got the experience, so I could B******T but choose not to where does this get me, unemployed p****d of with the industry for the same reasons you niggle. I have to work under these guys running these kitchens not caring what they send out looking at profit margins rather than customer satisfaction!

[SBonner]

Every restaurant in Hackney comes to mind. I see my grandmother who still lives in the area and everytime I take her out for a meal it's a total disaster. Horrid service, below par food, and just a joke to be a restaurant owner or server in this part of London. No jokes aside I grew up in this neighbourhood but moved to the colonies...a good thing. On the otherhand dinner at Conran's Porternoser was equally horrible for service when we were there six months ago but maybe that's because Conrad Black was sitting across from us

Cheers

Stephen Bonner

Vancouver

[Jon Tseng]

Still a noticeable gap in restaurant standards inside and outside of the M25

Yes there are exceptions which prove the rule - the Hibisci of this world - but they are acceptions

A generally elevated appreciation of quality dining remains, alas, a metropolian phenomenon

To be honest yet another reason not to bother venturing north of the watford gap

J

[Gary Marshall]

Still a noticeable gap in restaurant standards inside and outside of the M25

Yes there are exceptions which prove the rule - the Hibisci of this world - but they are acceptions

A generally elevated appreciation of quality dining remains, alas, a metropolian phenomenon

To be honest yet another reason not to bother venturing north of the watford gap 

J

←

i always bow to jon's considerable knowledge of restaurants outside the M25 and his in depth reports on them, when he's not pulling his tongue out of his cheek

[silverbrow]

I think the same is true in lots of countries. Not every restaurant is going to be a culinary heaven, most will be dross. But those that are really stand out.

I'm intrigued to know why this is the case. I assume people don't set out to start crappy restaurants, most people want to serve good stuff. What is it that starts the horrible slide down?

In an attempt to answer my own question, I would guess that care from the owner springs to mind viz hibiscus; merchant house. Although, as Kitchen Nightmares demonstrated, even then there needs to be other significant ingredients like an understanding of food, good sourcing etc

[circeplum]

Its basically about restaurants that I've visited that are simply not offering the goods in my area (Kent), and probably in yours too.

←

whereabouts in kent? i spend a lot of time in north kent (previously whitstable, now, er, the isle of thanet) and whereas the former has a few excellent gaffs (the sportsman, the dove at dargate, jo-jo's, the oyster stores at a pinch if you don't mind lack of sophistication coupled with attitude).

but thanet is a desert. i despair. other than bruno delamare in the art room who is aiming for a michelin star in margate. yup, you heard right, margate. and he might even do it...

but anyway, why the dearth of decent restaurants in the garden of england? the reason i've heard from a lot of locals is that, if they want a great dinner, they simply hop over to france ....

[Pweaver1984]

I live in Whitstable and I am very lucky to have some good places around me, as you said The Dove, Sportsman, JoJos, Wheelers. I work at the Oyster House. Its more places that crop up, Canterbury is devastating! Anyone heard of Acqua in Faversham? Recently opened. The owners have spent an absolute fortune on this new restaurant in a good location, but the food is shocking, dire. They have obviously invested a lot, but with the wrong chef.

Bruno Delamare in the Art Room sounds interesting? Is he there yet or whats the plan?

[Daryl Goh]

Still a noticeable gap in restaurant standards inside and outside of the M25

Yes there are exceptions which prove the rule - the Hibisci of this world - but they are acceptions

A generally elevated appreciation of quality dining remains, alas, a metropolian phenomenon

To be honest yet another reason not to bother venturing north of the watford gap 

J

←

There does seem to be a ripple effect that has quite significant time-lags. For example, rocket and pesto, which as far as anyone can ascertain, were invented in Notting Hill in 1990, have only just reached some parts of the UK. My heart sinks when you sit at a table in a restaurant and every dish is garnished with the stuff, and every customer is asking what they are.

Dining in London has undergone such a revolution that I wonder if by travelling outside the M25 it is simply a question of entering a timewarp, back to an age when the average Brit had less of an idea of restauration, either as a customer or as a restaurateur?

It seems that for alot of people, the quality of a restaurant is dependent far more on the portion size and the sweetness of the waiting staff rather than the quality of the food and the effeciency and authority running the place. There does seem to be a breed of restaurants that charge London prices, several hundred miles from London, which can only be described as quaint rather than good, peddling mediocre to wretched food but to which people flock in droves for birthdays and anniversaries. The faint smell of cabbage in the air comes not from the restaurant but from the customers of a certain age.

[Gary Marshall]

Not sure exactly how to word this post, although I kind of know what your responses could be. Its been bubbling up inside me for a while now.

Its basically about restaurants that I've visited that are simply not offering the goods in my area (Kent), and probably in yours too.

Its from major things (Off food/undercooked food/rude staff) down to some might call niggly things (things straight out of the fridge seem to be following me). There is a well publicised skills shortage in catering in the UK which I think is growing and growing.  Restaurateurs and chefs lack of knowledge, skills and experience is hurting me.

Sorry about this rant which I've rushed a bit, just getting fed up. Michelin is probably the only guide I can trust, you know what your getting from their starred establishments, the AA recommendations have disappointed me a few times lately. I will check out the new Hardens to see what they say, as that is based on "peoples views".

What can we do apart from not go to these places (vote with our feet)? Tell trading standards if I feel I have been mugged e.g When I ask to see the owner I get told "I am the owner there was nothing wrong with that rack of lamb" Get out of my Restaurant"?

Naming and shaming is wrong on here to do so. When I tell friends they think my standards are too high, they're not. I just like my food, freshly cooked with a slight bit of care, attention, and presented and served with some style.

Love to hear Egulleters views on this...........

Cheers

Paul

←

On the positive side, if you feel you are not alone in wanting the standards you expect, as a chef at least it presents an opportunity - you are in a position to do something about it, you could work towards opening your own place for example?

There is nothing wrong in being demanding of restuarants, you pay your money and you are entitled to certain expectations, but i wonder if there is something about the way you present your issues to restaurants? Demanding to see the owner, contentious internet reports, writing to guides and trading standards are imo not the way to improve anything but will just cause aggravation and upset.

There is complaining and complaining, if you encounter something you don't like, the most constructive way imo is to let them politely know of the problem and offer a solution.

with constructive dialogue from both restaurant and punter, eventually hopefully your dining experience will improve.

[tony h]

Still a noticeable gap in restaurant standards inside and outside of the M25

Yes there are exceptions which prove the rule - the Hibisci of this world - but they are acceptions

A generally elevated appreciation of quality dining remains, alas, a metropolian phenomenon

To be honest yet another reason not to bother venturing north of the watford gap  

J

←

i always bow to jon's considerable knowledge of restaurants outside the M25 and his in depth reports on them, when he's not pulling his tongue out of his cheek

←

gosh, I didn't know that cheltenham, bray & great milton were inside m25

[transfattyacid]

Still a noticeable gap in restaurant standards inside and outside of the M25

←

"If its 2005 in london, its 5 past eight in the rest of the country." Anon

[origamicrane]

hmmm... what was it that Jackie chirac said??

oh yeah Findlands got the worst food in europe

Go forth and educate the masses!

If you want to raise the standards you got to raise the expectations.

You got to be a food hitler around family and friends

if the people around you want to eat crap give them hell about it!!

[erica graham]

The other option is to make sure you support any good restaurant that you find ditto good local producers, make lots of noise about them, hopefully it will get through to the punters who fill up all the crap places you've had to endure- I find I enjoy telling people about good finds alot more than having the endless (and often repetitve) coversation about how awful some places can be- if I think its bad, I never mention it and deny knowing about it if asked, then change the subject to somewhere I've really enjoyed eating. Persistance can sometimes work!, and while it is very English to keep quiet whilst suffering a bad meal, and then go away and tell everyone you know not to go there- in the karma bank its best to stay positive!!

[origamicrane]

Dogbert

"I believe in karma, thats why when i'm an asshole to someone I know they deserve it"

[camp_dick]

it is very English to keep quiet whilst suffering a bad meal, and then go away and tell everyone you know not to go there- in the karma bank its best to stay positive!!

←

Don't let your karma run over your dogma!

[fisherman]

i think all on here have to accept that they have much higher standards than the vast majority of people. i try (and i'm sure everyone else on here does too) to educate friends, family and colleagues whenever food is around or even mentioned, but it's a thankless task.