Remodeling the Perlow Kitchen

[Rachel Perlow]

I figured it's time for an update. To recap, the kitchen was 90% gutted on Wednesday, June 19th. Contractor discovered leak in the roof. Roofers came with estimates Fri-Sat. We ended up removing the skylight on Monday. The guy did a really great job patching the roof, you can't even tell where it was. Much discussion over the weekend about vaulting the kitchen ceiling.

Contractors came back on Tuesday and finished gutting the ceiling and sub-floor. We discussed vaulting. Because of ductwork requiring big soffits we decided against vaulting the entire ceiling, however we did decide the do a tray ceiling in the dining room. Here's a picture of a tray ceilinged room I found on the internet, so you can get an idea:

As we had finalized plans for the ceiling, I had to go out and pick out the lighting fixtures for over the DR table and peninsula. I found the perfect contemporary fixtures at Capital Lighting. Here is a picture of something similar to what I ordered for over the table:

Our's has a ring of frosted glass around the metal circle, and it is of brushed steel. Jason thinks it looks like a flying saucer. A smaller matching flying saucer will be over the peninsula.

They also did the plumbing work on Tuesday. Today, they finished the new sub-floor and framed the tray ceiling. More work on the ceiling tomorrow then the town inspector has to examine the plumbing. Hopefully the electrician can finish his work by the end of the week and we'll be able to have both inspections next week. That's it for now!

[hollywood]

Actually, I could use some advise on Garbage Disposals, we haven't bought one yet.

Rachel, There's a safety issue here.  Get a batch feed type.  The cover has a contact which, when placed over the opening, must meet a contact inside the disposal to start it running.  The other type has a switch on the wall which turns the disposal on.  But this opens up the possibility of an accident, i.e., hand getting mangled.  No chance of that happening with the batch feed.

Don't know if you need a disposal. Most modern dishwashers take in dirty plates and utensils. They have a disposal kinda thing in the bottom. So, if you just do a rough scrape into the trash, you can lock n load.

Disposals always clog at the worst possible time (actually any time they clog is bad). You get overconfident and try and get rid of a potato or banana peel, a piece of broken wine glass inadvertently gets in the works, etc. then BINGO! everything backs up. Think about it.

If you do get one, go for maximum horsepower--just like a food processor.

As for grease running down the side of a house, in my experience the main source is at chimney level after burning parafin based "logs" in the fireplace. Turns black, like having your own private acid rain.

[rozrapp]

hollywood posted on Jun 26 2002, 04:45 PM

Disposals always clog at the worst possible time (actually any time they clog is bad). You get overconfident and try and get rid of a potato or banana peel, a piece of broken wine glass inadvertently gets in the works, etc. then BINGO! everything backs up.

I have never had any clogging problems. Perhaps I have just been lucky. But I am rather careful about what I put into the disposal -- for example, only thin peelings like apples, carrots, or potatoes, and never such thick ones as banana or mango -- and I always run cold water when the disposal is on as instructed in the manual.

[Rachel Perlow]

You know what? Screw the disposal, I'll start a compost pile for the garden. Jay - how'd you feel about that?

[JSD]

You know what? Screw the disposal, I'll start a compost pile for the garden.

How about start a compost pile, but have a disposal for the small bits that will inevitably sneak past you?

[jaybee]

How do you handle yellow waxy buildup on the floors?

I joined this late, so some remedial information. What kinds of stove, oven, refrig. are you putting in? Will you add a salamander? an indoor grill? What are you doing for storage of big pots and their covers, a real thorn in my side in the kitchen. We've refreshed our kitchen in the country in three stages. replaced the range/oven, replaced refrigerator and thre builtin cabinet, refinished the bar and surfaces. The new refrigerator, with the freezer on the bottom makes such a huge difference. No bending to see what's in the fridge. all's at eye level. The range has a griddle big enough to cook twelve pieces of french toast or sixteen hamburgers at once. Makes a big difference with a gang there. I hate garbage disposals, and wouldn't have one on a bet.

If I had my drithes, one thing I'd add is a water tap over the stove for filling large pots to cook pasta. Too late for that now, but I'm thinking of an extension with a hose. I'm always looking for storage and pantry ideas. Never enough.

[Rachel Perlow]

See previous page for some of your answers.

Actually Jason's been bugging me to put in one of those pot-fillers. I should at least check to see the cost before they close up the walls and have the plumbing inspected...

[jaybee]

I went back and caught up onthe thread. The Garland, how many burners? Propane or natural gas? The one with the griddle? I switched several years ago to a Viking four burner with the griddle in the middle. Propane, 'cause we don't have natural gas in the country. It is a wonderful thing to cook on. I expect you'll be very happy with your Garland. I installed the twin fans in the hood, the largest capacity I could get. They work wonders. No matter how much smoke i generate, it goes right up and out.

[Rachel Perlow]

Natural gas, 6 burners, no griddle or grill, I wanted the griddle Jason didn't. He usually gets what he wants, it saves arguments. Jay - why didn't you want the grill or griddle again?

[jaybee]

You can always put a pot on the griddle for heat too. I figured I rarely have more than four burners going at once and on these babies, there is enough space between burners for really big fry pans. So, Jay, why didn't you want the griddle?

I love the look of the Garland; a mean cooking machine!

[Rachel Perlow]

You may want to back up and review the links to our photos. I've added some, deleted others, and written captions. Click here is the current album, Kitchen Construction.

The roofer we found (thank you for all the referrals) worked out great. We ended up using someone recommended to me at work, but I had some of your referrals out for estimates. As I mentioned earlier, we removed the skylight and are doing a tray ceiling in the Dining Room. This created a much larger feel to the Dining Room and I think it will help to differentiate between the two adjoining spaces.

We have ordered the pot-filler and the plumbing for it is installed. Unfortunately, all the work on the plumbing necessitated turning the hot water heater and gas on and off over the course of last week and on Wednesday I noticed a lack of hot water. There were worries of having to replace the HWH, but the repairs were pretty minor, just needed an new thermocoupler (whatever that is). Tomorrow the electrician comes back to finish up, then we have the town inspections of plumbing and electrical. Hopefully the finish construction will begin soon.

[Rail Paul]

We have ordered the pot-filler and the plumbing for it is installed.

Your kitchen sounds like it is coming along nicely.

Nancy Stern (the kitchen designer) showed us an interesting piece of cookware last year. A self -filling / self-draining stock pot equipped with an insert. Designed to fill at the range top, and drain there, as well, via a tap at the bottom which led to a drain pipe. The result eliminates the trip with a boiling 20 qt pot to the sink and colander. The pot unsnaps from the drain line and can be hung on the wall.

The other device was a deep fry unit modified to be a 10 qt pot. Also self filling, and self draining (remove the insert!). This item was designed as a counter drop-in model. Because the sides heat, as well as the bottom, a more constant heat delivery is alleged.

[Rachel Perlow]

I've seen those in the store. Very cool, but I only have so much room, those things take up even more counterspace. Not to mention money.

[Rachel Perlow]

OK - So, last episode, we were expecting the electrician to come back and finish up. That didn't happen. Why? Because the electrial stuff (ceiling lights, switches, etc.) never got ordered. Oy! (to say the least) Did I ever explain that between the completion of the design part of the project and when we started actual work at the house, my designer left Expo. She apparantly had some notes in her book to order a few items last minute. This was never caught until the day the electrician was here, and we're all looking in my garage for the light fixtures & stuff. Got the super on the phone, he's walking around the warehouse looking for my order. He gets on a computer to double-check - "That was never ordered." Oh well.

This past Tuesday, I went back to Expo in Union. The head whole-house designer, Patrick, has been assigned to expedite this project. We went over every last detail, checking to make sure nothing else was forgotten. Electrical now in my garage, except for a few parts on order, but they should be here by Monday; drawer handles? bought and in the garage; Instant Hot? ruled out; Garbage Disposal? bought and in the garage*; changed backsplash tile to include tiling around the window. The only thing left to do is the window sill, and that is because he want's to come to the house to measure so there won't be any additional problems, doing that on Tuesday.

So, although no work was done at my house this week, I have hopefully saved any further last minute trips to Home Depot. The electrician will hopefully finish his work on Monday or Tuesday, in time for the town inspection by the end of the week. The the finishes can be started. For those freaking out for me - relax, I'm not freaked myself. Patrick even commented on how calm I am. I am so in a "whatever" mood about this whole thing. It'll be done when it's done.

* Garbage Disposal - I know it was recommended here to get the batch feed type of disposal, but I opted for the continuous feed for several reasons. Primarily, that is the kind I am used to using from my mother's house. Also, because of the configuration of the J pipe (or something similar, U Pipe?), the water in the waste line would end up sitting in the batch feed disposal between uses of the sink because it sits so much lower due to the longer neck. Those concerned about children, we have none right now. Those concerned about jewelry, I usually take off my rings while cooking & washing up. I did want to get a good one, so I opted for the 7 yr warranty model vs the 5 yr, and the 1 hp vs the 3/4 hp.

[Rachel Perlow]

This week, yesterday and today, new tile being installed.

Tomorrow, electrical should be finished with the inspection scheduled for Friday.

[Jason Perlow]

Here is a picture of the tiles, recently installed (grouting to be done tomorrow)

The field tile is ceramic, while the border decoration here in the center of the kitchen is made out of tumbled marble, it is called "River Rock".

You can see a close up of it by going into this album and selecting the "Tiles" picture:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291669675

[Rachel Perlow]

For those curious... We chose the River Rock for the "rug" (as the designer calls the inset pattern) to be a natural/organic counter-point to the contemporary appliances (all stainless steel) and cabinets. The colors of the stones also compliment the tile backsplash (which are a faux tumbled marble of many hues), as you will see in the coming weeks.

[Rachel Perlow]

Whoa. It's been a slow couple of weeks. Very minor work being done, grouting, lights, etc. But basically, it was mostly waiting on inspections and then making the modifications to the insulation for additional fire resistance required by the building inspector. Construction has finally begun again. They are here today working on the drywall. Yeah!

There are additional pictures up on the Kitchen Construction album.

[Jason Perlow]

holy shit, we have walls!

[Rachel Perlow]

I feel like I'm living an episode of Junkyard Wars, between the mess in the garage and the little things that keep going wrong.

Remember that the sink base didn't arrive? Well, the replacement arrived damaged so that's been re-ordered, again. The cabinet installer came yesterday and in planning out all the cabinets we realize there's room for a 12 inch cabinet where we had bought a 9 inch. Also, the microwave hutch has a frame around it that narrows the opening, meaning the existing microwave won't fit. There is actually room on that wall to have a larger cabinet (I think we were leaving room for light switches, but they have been put on the living room side of the wall rather than the kitchen side), so as long as we are ordering the 12 inch cabinet, we are going to get a wider microwave hutch too. In addition, (how did they miss this???) the three pot drawer cabinet is not in the garage, instead it is a normal one wide drawer with reg cabinet doors underneath. So, that needs to be reordered. Actually that is a good thing because it probably wouldn't have had the finished back it needs to have, since this piece is the peninsula. Argh.

Meanwhile, they are installing everything that is installable so they will be able to measure for the counter top template. This means that reordering the cabinets won't result in much of a delay, since it will coincide with the delay that would have happened for the countertops anyway.

There are additional pictures up on the Kitchen Construction album. This link takes you to the second page of the index, so you can see just the new photos.

[Rachel Perlow]

Here are some photo highlights of the construction:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Laying Tile . . . . . Spackling the Tray Ceiling . . . . . . . Customizing a cabinet . . . . . . . . Pantry/Peninsula

[rozrapp]

Rachel,

The glitches you describe all sound like some of the typical stuff that happens during a renovation despite the world's best planning.

During our renovation, there was a mistake with the cabinet that was going to house our microwave -- microwave section on top (way too high) instead of on the bottom -- and it had to be re-ordered. There was also going to be a cabinet with a "garage" at the bottom -- storage for small appliances. But when the installer started putting it up, I saw that it (1) was going to take away too much counter space and (2) looked totally ugly. So that was re-ordered. (Even though that was really my mistake, my kitchen designer figured out a way to get the replacement without charge. ) My contractor accidentally ordered windows with the wrong outside trim color. Changing the stock sizes was not much of a problem, but some of them were special orders. He did, however, manage to get those changed as well before they were shipped. Also, we discovered too late that he hadn't run a line from the sink to behind the refrigerator for filtered water for the ice maker. Fortunately, disaster was averted when we realized that the SubZero is specifically equipped with a place behind a bottom panel for a water filter.

Have you been happy with the work crew, i.e., find them pleasant to have around? Our crew was so terrific that I actually looked forward to seeing the guys each day and even sort of missed them once the job was completed -- but only just briefly.

Have you been given a guess-timate as to how much longer before it's all finished?

[Rachel Perlow]

Yes, I figured that each job has its own problems, but they all have some problems. Our super has been very good about getting things reordered without issue or restocking charges.

Good point about the water line. Just in case, I'll remind them tomorrow before the cabinets between the sink and the fridge get installed. I know the Kitchen Aid fridge has a water filter built in, but it still needs to get water from somewhere!

The work crew has been great. They are all really nice. In fact they are almost too polite at times. For example, there is a lockbox for the back door so they can get in even if we are not home that day. Instead of using it when they knew we were home, they would ring the doorbell and I'd have to go answer the door. I finally said, "as long as I know you're coming, just let yourselves in, maybe call out 'we're here' when you come in." I always seemed to be just getting in or out of the shower whenever they rang that darn doorbell.

Tomorrow my super, Anthony, will be here. He and the contractor are going to pull everything out of the garage and make sure everything else is as it should be. They will reorder the things that need changing and will measure for the countertops. So, even though there will be some more downtime over the next couple weeks, there would have been that downtime anyway. I would hope we will be finished by the end of the month. Is that wishful thinking?

[rozrapp]

Good point about the water line. Just in case, I'll remind them tomorrow before the cabinets between the sink and the fridge get installed. I know the Kitchen Aid fridge has a water filter built in, but it still needs to get water from somewhere!

If your fridge's water filter works like ours, then you wouldn't need an outside the fridge/in the wall line because the filter filters the water for the ice maker within the fridge itself. No outside water source is necessary for the ice maker to work. But, by all mean, check with your contractor to make sure.

I always seemed to be just getting in or out of the shower whenever they rang that darn doorbell.  

Our gang always showed up at the dot of 8 a.m., so it was easy for me. I just made it my business to be up, showered and dressed by the time they arrived. Sounds as though your crew keeps more irregular hours. Our contractor also had a key to our house so that they were able to continue working when we were away twice on vacation.

So, even though there will be some more downtime over the next couple weeks, there would have been that downtime anyway. I would hope we will be finished by the end of the month. Is that wishful thinking?

I don't remember too much down time during the 4 months our job lasted. Of course, no work on week-ends. But only an occasional day here or there when they weren't working. One day, when they were still doing stuff on the outside, they had to quit because of a huge rainstorm. But, for the most part, work was pretty continuous.

Since you are at the point where your cabinets are being installed, and you are talking about the template for your countertops, you are definitely entering the home stretch. My cabinet installation began in October -- a much, much larger job than yours -- and everything else after that (installation of countertops, appliances, etc.) was done so that I was able to cook a Thanksgiving turkey in my new oven. Of course, then there was the interior decoration which took several months to complete. But, anyway, I think another month for you to be finished is certainly a possibility.

[Rachel Perlow]

If your fridge's water filter works like ours, then you wouldn't need an outside the fridge/in the wall line because the filter filters the water for the ice maker within the fridge itself. No outside water source is necessary for the ice maker to work.

Uh, where does your fridge get the water from which to make the ice? I understand you don't need to filter the water before it gets to the fridge, but the water needs to get into the refridgerator's filter from somewhere. That's what I'm talking about.

Sounds as though your crew keeps more irregular hours.

They don't. I do.