Bourdain on New Jersey: Its Just Like The Sopranos

[jim07044]

Tony tells it like it is:

http://travel.discovery.com/fansites/bourd...ake/jersey.html

http://travel.discovery.com/fansites/bourd.../jersey_02.html

Just what middle America needs: more stereotyping that all New Jerseyans are just like they appear on the Sopranos!

Sure, we have our share of Italian restaurants and guidos/guidettes, but can anyone do a national primetime broadcast that shows the tremendous diversity of New Jersey, from the urban Essex and Bergen counties to the hills of Somerset and Hunterdon counties, to the Shore of Monmouth/Ocean, and Philly suburbs of Camden county? The span of food specialites runs the gamut, much more than the italian sub from the local go-go bar...

[JoRic]

I couldn't agree more! This is why,when the Sopranos wanted to film in our then-restaurant (Twentyeight) we said no. They couldn't believe that we really said no to them, but I for one would have felt horrible perpetuating the mobster stereotype.

[jhlurie]

Well, to be fair, he has the following statement as part of all of that:

It means something being from New Jersey. It means you have a sense of humor.

Also, in our own brand new interview with him, there's some very relevant stuff on his feelings about his long-time home state:

R: We both grew up in New Jersey. Tell me about the episode of No Reservations which takes place in the Garden State.

    A: The show I did there focused a lot more on stuff I remembered as a kid, and maybe the Asian Invasion, which I see as a really important New Jersey thing. On the fine dining end? I don't know, you tell me!? There's some really great things in Jersey and I tried to highlight them.

R: I was curious, because you said returning to France during A Cook's Tour was going back to your roots, where you tasted your first oyster and had a food epiphany. Were there any gastronomic epiphanies growing up in Leonia?

    A: Uh, I don't know. I mean it's always a joy to go back to Hirams [see Battle of the Fort Lee Dogs], and eat a burger or hot dog. You know, one of those deep fried hot dogs? I have a real passionate connection to that place.

I haven't seen the NJ show yet (although Rachel Perlow has), but I think he confirms that the appeal for him, and the focus of that episode, is nostalgia. Tony probably wasn't going to classy restaurants when he was a teenager. Although he does also say that he included some fine dining content, so that doesn't sound like it's "all Bada-Bing, all of the time". No doubt he could have weighed the show even more in the fine dining direction, but if he did, let's be honest... why would The Travel Channel have wanted to produce it? They're more interested in what makes a location unique.

Frankly, if "middle America" doesn't understand that The Sopranos isn't representative of every person living in New Jersey, then well... surely we can unfairly pigeonhole them back in retaliation somehow.

[Mayhaw Man]

I was in New Jersey for the first time last Tuesday (other than the airport, and that doesn't count, does it?) night for a fabulous meal in Newark. I have to admit that while riding in the back of a giant 78 Eldo (in showroom condition-except with a better stereo), passing across the Meadowlands, I found myself humming the theme song to the Soprano's-I know it was wrong, but it's just the way that it was.

That admission being made, we had a great time, great food, and even better company. I love New Jersey. It's a great place and I pledged to my hosts that I would try to make up for all of the years that I made it the butt of my admittedly ignorant and uninformed jokes. I am ashamed of myself and am using this forum to cleanse myself of my former New Jersey baiting ways.

I apologize to New Jersey and all of it's fine citizenry. It's a lovely place. From now on, when I think of great times, I will think of Newark.

[jhlurie]

Ah. See that's why we slipped that "London vs. Newark" question into Rachel's interview. Alas, he chose London. We should have made it Reykjavik vs. Newark, or maybe Bora Bora vs. Trenton.

[Rachel Perlow]

(It's an '87 Cadillac Brougham)

If you think what you see on the website is disturbing, I can't tell you how pissed I was about the segment down the shore. I won't say anything more right now, but this thread is gonna take off after the NJ episode airs. Unfortunately, I didn't get the NJ tape until after the interview, and he's currently still in Uzbekistan, so I couldn't really get in any more follow-up questions.

However, the Asian invasion segment is very good: he goes shopping at Mitsuwa and to a Korean restaurant with a knowledgable Korean-American woman. The part with Mario was good too, tape an extra minute longer to be sure you don't miss the ending (including the credits).

[ghostrider]

Why do we think that middle America pays any attention to Tony Bourdain?

For that matter, why do we care what middle America thinks? What have they ever done for us (other than send me here)?

[Daniel]

What I think is funny is people from New Jersey are stereotyping people from Middle America... Who are people from New Jersey to assume that all of Middle America is a bunch of ignorant, judgemental, goody two shoes.. You cant complain about people mislabeling you, while mislabeling someone else..

[jim07044]

Ah.  See that's why we slipped that "London vs. Newark" question into Rachel's interview.  Alas, he chose London.  We should have made it Reykjavik vs. Newark, or maybe Bora Bora vs. Trenton.

Thats a dumb analogy (forgive my bluntness). Might as well be "London vs. Hartford, CT" or "London vs. Albany, NY." New Jersey is not about globally-recognized urban culture centers (we have NYC and Philly for that). New Jersey is about quality of living and diversity. Trees and farmland. Rivers and oceans and mountains. Quiet sleepy country towns towards the Delaware River, and chic trendy urban towns like Montclair, Red Bank, and Princeton.

[Jason Perlow]

However, the Asian invasion segment is very good: he goes shopping at Mitsuwa and to a Korean restaurant with a knowledgable Korean-American woman. The part with Mario was good too, tape an extra minute longer to be sure you don't miss the ending (including the credits).

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There's a great Newark segment as well, but I am not sure if it will make it into the final cut of the episode.

[jesteinf]

Why do we think that middle America pays any attention to Tony Bourdain?

For that matter, why do we care what middle America thinks?  What have they ever done for us (other than send me here)?

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As someone living in middle America, who used to live in New Jersey:

1. Middle America does, in fact, pay attention to and love Tony Bourdain. I spent a good chunk of a wedding last week discussing Cook's Tour with someone.

2. Why do you care what we think? There are more of us than there are of you

3. I'm sure the whole Soprano's thing is just a comedic device and nothing that is meant to be offensive. Weren't there a couple of Apocolypse Now references in Cook's Tour? I think SE Asia has more to offer than what was depicted in that movie.

NJ is a great place. People shouldn't get so defensive. Sit back, enjoy the show, and have a sense of humor about yourselves for goodness sake.

[rooftop1000]

Ah.  See that's why we slipped that "London vs. Newark" question into Rachel's interview.  Alas, he chose London.  We should have made it Reykjavik vs. Newark, or maybe Bora Bora vs. Trenton.

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Truth be told I have had many more meals in Reykjavic than Newark.... strange but true ...and I live 30 min from Newark....Reykjavic also has really good bread just like Newark

tracey

[highchef]

I lived in N.J. 25 years ago, and hated it...as soon as I could I moved into an apt. in centercity philly. My husband was a Naval Officer and it suited him fine, there were no oq's on base. However....I'd met a young couple who were with the Federal Gov't, and were in charge of taking care of various nat'l sites in and around Philly. When my husband went overseas, she called and invited me to her new 'assignment' to spend some quality time...This place was in N. Jersey and was unbelievably beautiful. The house had been in the same family for over 100 years and had barns, stables etc...but the house...my God. Ceder closets everywhere, meat cellar, wine cellar...deck that looked out for miles and miles on the most beautiful earth God ever laid down. And the house was built for generations. And generations used it. And then it was taken away by the Fed's for a dam that to my knowledge has not been built to this day. There's not a price tag on a place like that. As a 2nd generation Irishman(woman) I can tell you, that if it'd been ours- there would have been blood paid. I paid a lot more attention to N.J. after that...and to our taxes. You might want to pay some attention to yours. N.J. has gotten a bad rap, and has been raped a number of times. By the Mob, but also by the Feds. jmoo

edit: I told you I could not spell

Edited July 20, 2005 by highchef (log)

[Lreda]

Wow!!!

That shook me as this is a state that I have dis-liked since I've moved here. I'm a Bronx boy looking to return home soon. I enjoy the country side as well as everyone but that's disappated since the early 80's in Jersey. Everything is a strip mall with a chain restaurant. Oh well.

This may sound like a rant but it's not my intention. NJ has just changed since I've been a citizen of the state.

[mizducky]

Y'know, I grew up in Rockland County, New York, just over the state line from Bergen County, New Jersey, and spent a large part of my youth exploring all different parts of Jersey. So yeah, I know there's a lot more to Jersey than Sopranos territory--Princeton, the Pine Barrens, the shore, the affluent communities. But as I have always said, almost every stereotype has at least some small grain of truth to it. And the plain fact of the matter is that the Sopranos-land version of Jersey is still alive and kickin' too, and totally leaving that out would paint just as incomplete a picture of Jersey as leaving out any of the other parts.

(Plus, in some ways, I actually feel more at home, personally, in Sopranos-land Jersey than I do in Affluent Rural Jersey. But hey, what the heck do I know? I come from the suburb of New York that, if anything, gets even less respect than Jersey. I mean, at least people mention Jersey; Rockland County is so below the radar it doesn't even seem to merit being the butt of jokes. )

[tommy]

am i the only person who read those links and thought that they weren't in the least bit offensive? come to think of it am i the only one who read those links?

edited for typo.

Edited July 20, 2005 by tommy (log)

[jim07044]

am i the only person who those links and thought that they weren't in the least bit offensive?  come to think of it am i the only one who read those links?

I never thought they were offensive, but I do think it was too obvious of a cliche to link NJ with Sopranos references and Italian restaurants/specialties. What about NJ blueberries, tomatoes, and corn? What about the rising status of NJ wineries? What about ethnic finds in Paterson, Union, etc? Its kinda like stereotyping NYC for one type of food specialty, when we all know there are as many specialties as neighborhoods in the city.

If the point of the show is to identify unique culinary experiences than cannot be duplicated at the same level anywhere else in the world, and the best they could come up with for NJ is a go-go bar and a sub sandwich, I'd say someone didn't do enough research!

[Curlz]

No, and no! I thought the same thing...in fact, I thought he gave more than a little love to NJ. To wit: "...As much as I hate to leave this place, most Jerseyites have no connection at all to strip clubs and mobsters. What they do know about is going down the shore for the summer." and "...It means something being from New Jersey. It means you have a sense of humor."

I thought he did a great job of acknowledging all of the usual references to NJ but also saying that's not what the state is all about. Did he wax poetic about the numerous other kinds of restaurants we have in NJ? Nope...but it also wouldn't have fit in to this piece, from what I read.

My $.02. And if you don't like it, well...fuggedaboutit.

[Rachel Perlow]

am i the only person who those links and thought that they weren't in the least bit offensive?  come to think of it am i the only one who read those links?

.... What about NJ blueberries, tomatoes, and corn? What about the rising status of NJ wineries? ....

If the point of the show is to identify unique culinary experiences than cannot be duplicated at the same level anywhere else in the world, and the best they could come up with for NJ is a go-go bar and a sub sandwich, I'd say someone didn't do enough research!

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While I agree with a lot of what you just said, he did to a nice segment at Bobolink Dairy discussing farming, cows, cheese and bread. And, the episode was shot in the winter, so blueberries and tomatoes would be a little hard to check out. He went skiing at Vernon Valley Great Gorge, er I mean Mountain Creek, also.

[tommy]

Its kinda like stereotyping NYC for one type of food specialty, when we all know there are as many specialties as neighborhoods in the city.

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every one of cola mecco's shows highlight one particular type of food or neighborhood, usually in NY or NJ. that's not stereotyping. that's focus. i'm sure if you back bourdain with a couple of hundred grand he'll be more than happy to produce a show on blueberries and tomatoes, salt water taffy and jersey corn, assuming he cares about those subjects enough.

bourdain lived in NJ for 17 years. my guess is that he's comfortable with the level of research for this show.

i like subs. i like Satin Dolls. i like the Sopranos. i like being italian-american.

[hitmanoo]

Having read those links, Anthony touches on many stereotypes, discredits many, and uses them to add humor to his writing.

Any offense taken is due to the insecurities of the reader, and not the fault of the author.

i like subs. i like Satin Dolls. i like the Sopranos. i like being italian-american.

Amen Tommy!

[=Mark]

Ah.  See that's why we slipped that "London vs. Newark" question into Rachel's interview.  Alas, he chose London.  We should have made it Reykjavik vs. Newark, or maybe Bora Bora vs. Trenton.

Thats a dumb analogy (forgive my bluntness). Might as well be "London vs. Hartford, CT" or "London vs. Albany, NY." New Jersey is not about globally-recognized urban culture centers (we have NYC and Philly for that). New Jersey is about quality of living and diversity. Trees and farmland. Rivers and oceans and mountains. Quiet sleepy country towns towards the Delaware River, and chic trendy urban towns like Montclair, Red Bank, and Princeton.

←

Don't forget property taxes and auto insurance. I've been a NJ resident all my life but will not be able to afford to retire here.

[jhlurie]

Frankly, reading over his ENTIRE piece on the Travel Channel website, instead of just those few sentences alluded to by Jim, I think it becomes even clearer that Tony is making the exact same argument against Jersey stereotypes instead of supporting them. Aside from the fact that the Sopranos references are clearly a joke, and his comment about New Jerseyans having to have a sense of humor, he also pretty much directly comes out and admits that he's not being representative. And the following seems to be a pretty clear message that we should revel in the humor of it, rather than let a lifetime of indignities get under our skins.

People have been pushing clichés and misconceptions about Jersey since long before my glory days.

I'm assuming the show is what? 45 minutes of footage? Realistically there's only so much he can put in, and as I said before he's got to make it interesting and try to create a story about contrasts. For every shot of Bobolink Dairy he needs a Bada Bing/Satin Dolls. For every scene of how vibrant and interesting the Ironbound area of Newark can be, he might have to show a part of the Jersey shore that meets the expectations of how run down most people assume it is.

Montclair would have been nice. Hopefully he got there, but if he didn't it's hardly going to misrepresent the state to not show it. I mean hey... apparently he went to Mitsuwa market in Edgewater for his Asian Invasion, and well... these days a Korean Supermarket (like Hahn Ah Reum) would have been much more representative of the Invasion than a Japanese one. But that isn't going to invalidate the segment he did--it's still going to be showing a piece of Jersey that most outsiders don't even know exists.

[Daniel]

Well speaking as someone who spent many of his high school lunches eating at a go-go bar, I for one would have felt left out if he didnt mention that scenario... In fact, one of our last times there me and my friends went to Virgos and saw my friends dad there.. It was a really strange moment.. That was one of my last times back to a strip club..Dad couldnt punish kid because mom wasnt aware what dad was doing during the day... Very classy, very classy...

edit to add: The buffet lunch wasnt too bad either..

Edited July 20, 2005 by Daniel (log)

[halloweencat]

i wonder if that dam was the dam that still (i believe) has yet to be built...'round the watchung reservation.

of course, since wayne and a lot of other towns near it are built on a floodplain, it could be a locale that has more to do with that area.

nj is one of the most diverse states in the nation, per square mile. a bit of the appalachian mountains, estatuaries, the shore, 87 lakes, much maligned, much abused wetlands, mountains...

the forbses, jaqueline onassis, richard nixon and the sultain of morrocco did not have houses here for nothing.

cheers :)

hc