Mole Poblano: Cook-Off 9

[touaregsand]

I think that the chilis at the Turkish or Moroccan places will provide a pretty close to 'authentic' flavor.

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I dunno, middle eastern chiles may occasionally come close to anchos, but not to mulatos and pasillas. (To say nothing of chipotles). My recipe also calls for tomates verdes. What would you guys suggest to our poor bodega-deprived euro friends as a sub on that one? Those are hard to mail. Sort of a mix between a green tomato and a green plum, sort of. Plus they sorta look like gooseberries

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I was thinking more of Moroccan chilis. Last time I checked Morocco is not in the Middle East. I also figured that the Turkish places might cross over into carrying some Moroccan foodstuffs.

Anyway, smoky chilis are found in North African cooking.

EDIT: Anyway chilis are called 'fefla' 'felfel' 'falfel' something along those lines.

Edited May 17, 2005 by touaregsand (log)

[touaregsand]

Some Mexican chilis

[Nathan P.]

Here is another online source for those looking for mole recipes. I've only made the first one which was very good but there is a Poblano recipe and some Yellow, Green, Oaxacan, etc. that look interesting as well.

http://www.ramekins.com/mole/recipesmole.html

Nathan

[fiftydollars]

Well I'm overwhelmed.  I'm considering simplification, including this recipe.  Another issue for me is cloves.  There are very few flavors I don't like, but that is one I cannot stomach.  Is anyone going to say that if cloves are not included, I won't learn what a true Mole Poblano de Guajolote tastes like?  It's a totally new dish for me.  I haven't even eaten it in a restaurant.

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Keeping out the clove won’t ruin the mole. However, mole poblano recipes call for a lot of clove and there is a reason for it. Clove is one of mole poblano’s signature flavors and I would not leave it out entirely.

Edited May 17, 2005 by fiftydollars (log)

[fiftydollars]

I like substituting Scharffenberger and spices for the Mexican chocolate. I love Ibarra, Moctezuma, and other Mexican chocolates sold in stores in the US. I grew up eating cheap Mexican chocolate like Ibarra and I am real fond of it and whatnot. But Scharffenberger’s 99% is a whole lot better. Ibarra has some spices like clove, cinnamon, and sugar. You can add some of these to your mole if you wish…

I am not sure how much cocoa is in Ibarra, et al., but go ahead and taste it… you’ll find it’s not much.

Anyway, the Scharffenberger (or your favorite high quality 70%+ chocolate) really shows what chocolate can do for this sauce.

Edited May 18, 2005 by fiftydollars (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

Living in a suburb of NYC, there are plenty of Mexican bodegas in my vacinity. I understand how someone living in the middle of the US or Japan or Australia or France or whatever could enjoy and think worthwhile the process of hunting down the numerous ingredients required for an authenitc mole sauce.

Middle of the US is a lot of farmland. A lot of the farmworkers are Mexican. Many occasionally eat, I am told. Hence, very good access to Mexican groceries. You New York types really need to drive a little farther west every once in a while, you know Sorry, but I was once a similarly misinformed east-coaster.

Hell, even the local wall-mart carries pozole and salt cod.

But I found it very hard to find decent Mexican groceries in Europe. What you can get really depends on the immigrant mix, obviously. But Mexican stuff in the midwest? Never a problem.

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Learn something new every day...

[Susan in FL]

Another issue for me is cloves.  There are very few flavors I don't like, but that is one I cannot stomach.  Is anyone going to say that if cloves are not included, I won't learn what a true Mole Poblano de Guajolote tastes like? 

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Nope. I think that we have a more sophisticated understanding of authenticity to do that, Susan! From what I've read, NulloModo is right on the money; this is a classically intricate, and thus classically meddled-with, dish, a la cassoulet.

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Keeping out the clove won’t ruin the mole. However, mole poblano recipes call for a lot of clove and there is a reason for it. Clove is one of mole poblano’s signature flavors and I would not leave it out entirely.

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That's what I was wondering, but I was looking for the words... That's it -- if "one of Mole Poblano's signature flavors" would be missing by leaving it out. I don't get too hung up and rigid about authenticity, but before I'm familiar with a dish I don't want to change it up so much that I won't have an appreciation of the taste of the classic version. But cloves.... I don't know if I can do that. Probably I will leave it out and just pretend for one mouthful that it's in there. Keeping out the clove won't ruin it, but for me putting it in there might!

[Pan]

yes, lots of ethnic markets here, but neither the Indonesian/Chinese/Asian stores nor the Turkish/Moroccan shops sell Mexican chiles.[...]

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What about Surinamese markets, perhaps? Just a thought, could be useless.

Edited May 17, 2005 by Pan (log)

[Toliver]

That's what I was wondering, but I was looking for the words...  That's it -- if "one of Mole Poblano's signature flavors" would be missing by leaving it out.  I don't get too hung up and rigid about authenticity, but before I'm familiar with a dish I don't want to change it up so much that I won't have an appreciation of the taste of the classic version.  But cloves....  I don't know if I can do that.  Probably I will leave it out and just pretend for one mouthful that it's in there.    Keeping out the clove won't ruin it, but for me putting it in there might!

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Susan,

Leave it out if you absolutely cannot stand it. Life's too short to eat something you don't like.

I've eaten many a mole and "clove-like" would never have been one of the words to describe the flavor of the sauces I've had. Like chilis and stews, there are a million and one variations...every sauce maker has their own recipe with their own adjustments. So forgo the cloves if you don't like it.

The recipe you linked to seems pretty straight forward though it sort of goes against what a mole sauce is all about...it is usually a melange of many, many ingredients simmered for an incredibly long time to tranform it into the final magic potion that usually doesn't taste of just one ingredient or flavor. It's a true fusion.

That being said, in regards to recipes, I say go with what piques your interest. If a shorter recipe achieves a great sauce in the end, then go with it.

By the way, the use in that recipe of a crock pot for simmering the sauce is sheer genius. I had one of those "Why didn't I think of that?" moments when I read that.

I will peruse the cookbooks I have and post a recipe if I find anything worthwhile.

[Chris Amirault]

I like substituting Scharffenberger and spices for the Mexican chocolate.

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We have a bar of the 99% Scharffenberger waiting for the proper use, but I have a question. Do you substitute one-for-one, or do you cut the chocolate by some amount?

[Abra]

I'm probably the one who said to make a ton and freeze it, cuz that's what I always do. I really encourage you to try the recipe I linked to. I've made maybe 5-6 different moles over the years, including the Kennedy recipe, and I think this is the absolutely best one ever. I took some of mylast batch to the owner of our good local Mexican restaurant and he asked me to make a few quarts for him to serve in the restaurant for Christmas. "Sure" I replied "but I'll have to charge you $150 a quart to make up for the time I spend on it." It's worth the effort, trust me on this.

[fiftydollars]

I substitute 1 to 1. The recipe I use calls for a half puck of moctezuma, which comes in 40g tablets (1.43 oz). I wind up using most of a fifth of a 9.7 oz bar (they are prescored into 5 pieces). Sometimes I add a bit more. I don't usually add sugar to compensate for the lower amount, but you can. The recipe I use already has dried fruit and I think that adds enough sweetness, but a lot of people like it a little sweeter. The moctezuma chocolate also has cinnamon, which I believe is actually "real" cinnamon (not cassia), so I adjust the seasoning slightly.

[jhlurie]

Living in a suburb of NYC, there are plenty of Mexican bodegas in my vacinity. I understand how someone living in the middle of the US or Japan or Australia or France or whatever could enjoy and think worthwhile the process of hunting down the numerous ingredients required for an authenitc mole sauce.

Middle of the US is a lot of farmland. A lot of the farmworkers are Mexican. Many occasionally eat, I am told. Hence, very good access to Mexican groceries. You New York types really need to drive a little farther west every once in a while, you know Sorry, but I was once a similarly misinformed east-coaster.

Hell, even the local wall-mart carries pozole and salt cod.

But I found it very hard to find decent Mexican groceries in Europe. What you can get really depends on the immigrant mix, obviously. But Mexican stuff in the midwest? Never a problem.

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Aw, leave the poor NYer alone. (actually she's from NJ)

I know from personal experience that Kansas City is PACKED with Mexican culture. I gotta tell you... it shocked me until I thought about it. Is it politically incorrect to talk about migrant workers? In K.C. apparently a number of them decided to stay.

The Mexican influence in our part of the world is scarce, but Rachel is fortunate enough to live near one of the few real enclaves. Again, you have to risk political incorrectness to discuss why. The fact is the stereotype of the Mexican lawn care professional has some basis in reality, and a lot of the families live in Bergenfield, NJ.

Back to Mole Poblano. Isn't it true that everyone's abuelita has their own version of the recipe? Even as an amateur and living in a region with less Mexican food than I desire I've had dozens of variations myself. Susan in FL shouldn't get all hung up over cloves, because I'm positive there are tons of recipes without them. I honestly don't think there IS a signature ingredient of Mole Poblano other than the chocolate (but it better be Mexican chocolate, right?) and the mix of chiles.

[fiftydollars]

Another issue for me is cloves.  There are very few flavors I don't like, but that is one I cannot stomach.  Is anyone going to say that if cloves are not included, I won't learn what a true Mole Poblano de Guajolote tastes like? 

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Nope. I think that we have a more sophisticated understanding of authenticity to do that, Susan! From what I've read, NulloModo is right on the money; this is a classically intricate, and thus classically meddled-with, dish, a la cassoulet.

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Keeping out the clove won’t ruin the mole. However, mole poblano recipes call for a lot of clove and there is a reason for it. Clove is one of mole poblano’s signature flavors and I would not leave it out entirely.

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That's what I was wondering, but I was looking for the words... That's it -- if "one of Mole Poblano's signature flavors" would be missing by leaving it out. I don't get too hung up and rigid about authenticity, but before I'm familiar with a dish I don't want to change it up so much that I won't have an appreciation of the taste of the classic version. But cloves.... I don't know if I can do that. Probably I will leave it out and just pretend for one mouthful that it's in there. Keeping out the clove won't ruin it, but for me putting it in there might!

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No cloves is cool. It's all about what you DO put in there, not about what you don't... There are some recipes for MP that have, like, 4 or 5 spices that I personally consider to be sort of close to each other (cinnamon, clove, avocado leaf, allspice, star anice...). Overall there is a certain direction these spices are meant to take the flavor. Some recipes use one, some all, and some a lot more spices. It provides a certain spicy note that gives the mole a type of aroma and flavor I can't really describe, but which I definitely associate with MP. Anyway, I think mole is about the chiles; not the spices or the chocolate or the nuts or the whatever else the recipe can be made to contain. But there sure is a lot of stuff in this dish and it all blends really well together.

Edited May 18, 2005 by fiftydollars (log)

[Behemoth]

I know from personal experience that Kansas City is PACKED with Mexican culture.  I gotta tell you... it shocked me until I thought about it.  Is it politically incorrect to talk about migrant workers?  In K.C. apparently a number of them decided to stay.

I don't know about PC -- most of our ancestors were migrant workers at one point or another. I always admired Bourdin for giving props to how much of our food economy runs thanks to migrant workers' hard labor. On a much more shallow level, I'm just grateful for my local carnicerias and taquerias. So much more fun to shop and eat at than the chains.

I've had a few different versions of mole poblano. While they can vary widely, one thing they have in common is that it is really hard to pick apart any individual ingredient. I'd say it's fine to drop the cloves but chances are it won't be that overpowering in the end product anyway.

[piperdown]

I was afraid this would be the next cook-off. I so want to make this, as I love the stuff, but living in Kingston, I know I won't be able to find most of the ingredients. Heck we don't even have any Mexican restaurants here. I do have some Ancho chilies, but other then that the only chili's I can get are Jalapenos, Thai and Scotch Bonnets.

Man this sucks...I love mole poblano, and I try to get it every time I'm in NYC. Does anyone know of a place that will ship to Canada, or a Canadian online merchant?

[Abra]

Susan asked for a repeat of the link to the awesome mole recipe that I use, so here it is. I make the mole exactly as written, skipping all the parts about the turkey, except that I use the food processor instead of the blender, and the food mill if I think it needs smoothing. It's way too much volume and fiber for my blender.

[Richard Kilgore]

I was afraid this would be the next cook-off. I so want to make this, as I love the stuff, but living in Kingston, I know I won't be able to find most of the ingredients. Heck we don't even have any Mexican restaurants here. I do have some Ancho chilies, but other then that the only chili's I can get are Jalapenos, Thai and Scotch Bonnets.

Man this sucks...I love mole poblano, and I try to get it every time I'm in NYC. Does anyone know of a place that will ship to Canada, or a Canadian online merchant?

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I don't know, but have you tried Penzey's?

[legourmet]

But I found it very hard to find decent Mexican groceries in Europe. What you can get really depends on the immigrant mix, obviously. But Mexican stuff in the midwest? Never a problem.

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look at this. The varieties of ingredients are not like in American groceries, but you'll find good products.

[piperdown]

I don't know, but have you tried Penzey's?

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Oh, I didn't even realise they shipped to Canada, but apparently they do. Cool, thanks.

[Chufi]

So, I went on a chile hunt today. And a very succesfull one it was! First I went to my Spanish deli. No mexican peppers there but they did have 2 kinds of dried peppers: Noras and Choriceros. The lady in the shop said both are not hot, but very aromatic. The choriceros has a kind of smoky scent.

So I bought those, thinking it would be better than nothing, and went to my favorite ethnic foodshop. And guess what, they had both anchos and pasillas! I should have had more faith in my city, it always supplies me with what I need...

so here's what I have:

[Behemoth]

Chufi, they look great! And seeing legourmet's link, it seems I may be able to bypass culinary homesickness in my future, after all

[albiston]

Chufi, they look great! And seeing legourmet's link, it seems I may be able to bypass culinary homesickness in my future, after all

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As a backup option, once you move to Germany, you might want to consider Mex Al. I just found out about them and will definitely give them a try since the four hours drive to Munich is slightly too much only to get chiles . Seems I'll be joining the fun after all, without transatlantic chile shipments being needed. I'm only sorry for your relative Nadia, seems she'll never get that CD . But thanks again for the extremely kind offer.

[touaregsand]

So, I went on a chile hunt today. And a very succesfull one it was! First I went to my Spanish deli. No mexican peppers there but they did have 2 kinds of dried peppers: Noras and Choriceros. The lady in the shop said both are not hot, but very aromatic. The choriceros  has a kind of smoky scent.

So I bought those, thinking it would be better than nothing, and went to my favorite ethnic foodshop. And guess what, they had both anchos and pasillas! I should have had more faith in my city, it always supplies me with what I need... 

so here's what I have:

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Which ethnicity is this?

Dutch food is 'ethnic' to me...

[Chufi]

Which ethnicity is this?

Dutch food is 'ethnic' to me... 

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it's a shop that has a lot of different sections: japanese, thai, surinamese, indian, chinese, mexican, american (that's ethnic to me , they sell crisco, jiffy etc.). It's a very small shop with an amazing variety of ingredients!

Edited May 18, 2005 by Chufi (log)