Hell's Kitchen, U.S. Season 1

[rose_ayn]

I noticed tonite how different GR treats the chefs and owners on Kitchen Nightmares.  Is this just editing for different audiences or do you think he actually can lighten up at will?

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Completely different circumstances at play here.

In "Kitchen Nightmares" he's trying to help people get their restaurants to make more money. Many of the owners are near closing up shop, but are running restaurants. They knew enough about the business to start a restaurant of their own. Their sucess or failure doesn't reflect upon Gordon Ramsay's reputation one ounce.

In the American "Hell's Kitchen" some of the contestants work in a kitchen - not all of them though. But these people are trying to win a restaurant of their own despite the lack of any restaurant experience. The premise here is Ramsay's training them and therefore his reputation is more on the line.

[touaregsand]

I noticed tonite how different GR treats the chefs and owners on Kitchen Nightmares.  Is this just editing for different audiences or do you think he actually can lighten up at will?

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Completely different circumstances at play here.

In "Kitchen Nightmares" he's trying to help people get their restaurants to make more money. Many of the owners are near closing up shop, but are running restaurants. They knew enough about the business to start a restaurant of their own. Their sucess or failure doesn't reflect upon Gordon Ramsay's reputation one ounce.

In the American "Hell's Kitchen" some of the contestants work in a kitchen - not all of them though. But these people are trying to win a restaurant of their own despite the lack of any restaurant experience. The premise here is Ramsay's training them and therefore his reputation is more on the line.

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I did a quick read of the bios (because I have nothing better to do or maybe it's because I am avoiding a pile of research that needs sorting) It doesn't look like any of the contestants has much commercial kitchen experience beyond pizzerias. The guy who claimed to be an executive chef is noted as being a "freelance executive chef" and another one is a "freelance chef". WTF?!?!? One of the contestants is a culinary student. The tattoed guy is noted as an executive chef, not a freelance one, presumably he has a permanent position somewhere.

Btw, executive chef is more of an American thing or Hotel/Corporate type position. Chef de Cuisine. Most French chefs I know simply refer to themselves as cuisiniers (cooks). Whereas I've heard American culinary students talk about attending 'chef school'.

EDIT: Hard to believe the show is about putting his reputation on the line, more about building his brand name in America. The contestants appear to be victims of childhood traumas eager to take abuse.

Considering the perfectionist that Ramsay is surely he had a say in who would be chosen to suit the needs of his performance. I know, I know it's only a show. I've already posted regarding what I know about the 'staging' on that show.

I went back to read some previous posts that I had neglected. I don't buy the romanticization of a mad tempermental chef/artist strving for perfection. Methinks we have a Scot who is playing a mad French chef in a painfully self-conscious way. He learned this in France? Puhleeze. Maybe the kitchen crew was having some fun with the foreigner.

Most high profile chefs have 'a hook' whether it's the "I tippy tippy toe through my organic garden, hunting down heirloom chickens" or "raving, cursing, physically abusive in mad search of perfection" it's all for the dear customer. "Look at me, the hoops I jump through. The depth of my passion for perfection!!!"

Edited June 8, 2005 by touaregsand (log)

[divalasvegas]

i think the funniest thing about the show is that he is really like that. I know alot and i mean alot of people who have worked for him in england. This is exactly how he is and much much worse. He screams, bullys, and even hits his employees. He sais things like that to guests. Im not saying the show isn't somewhat fake or made to be more dramatic. I think they are just playing of his history of abusiveness.

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Thank you, chop, well said and done.

I saw Ramsey yesterday on 'Charlie Rose' and he really told it like it is.

He's not doing anything to anybody that truly wasn't done to him when he was an apprentice at Robuchon (sp) or anywhere else he trained and he believes (rightfully,imo) that that kind of training turned him into a right old CU.., I mean, a Michelin starred chef.

He told a great story about Robuchon throwing a plate of scallops and it's accompaniments at him and putting him in charge of staff meal the next day for a considerable time.

Said he made the best staff meals ever, the staff loved him for how he made their food as good as he could, because he cared.

He said now that when he gets a NFG he gives them "the trimmings" and if that person turns out something decent, he feels like he's looking at some talent.

He was pretty good at handing out compliments to the people who deserved them, genuinely impressed him who surprisedly WEREN'T any of the cook/chefs in the cast.

The worst thing to do is tell someone like him "I'm an executive chef".

Fucking better cook your ass off then, champ!!!

It's all a bit Survivorish to me too but, I LOVE this guy, as Bourdain said, I think, "he's a chefs chef", and I could watch all of the shows in a row.

My wife and I laughed our asses off, she wants me to try to get on the next season!!!

I've worked for some CRAZY people in my life, could be a laugh.

I kind of miss the screamers, it all has gotten a bit PC now.

In French run kitchens, I've seen people get decked, thrown down, fistfights ( i was in one), and of course, a lot of full bore yelling

Forgive me if someone else posted about the Charlie Rose show, I haven't read the whole thread.

Have to add this: Sorry to say, I watched 'Cooking Under Fire' the other night and was truly offended by it.

I used to depend on PBS for decent cooking shows like 'Great Chefs of...', indeed, that's what got me to consider cooking for a living in the first place, and now, you have three great guys, one of the best food writers on the planet, two more then talented chefs, handing out saute pans and "86ing" these cooks??? For using too much salt or something?

Talk about Survivor!

This is what would make it much more amusing or entertaining to me, would get it on Fox, where it too belongs, and really elevate it to the truly great trashy TV genre that is all of the "hallmark" reality TV shows like 'Big Brother' and the like.

When they're "86ing" the offending cook, light the saute pan up like a gong, Motley Crue style, with a decent cognac, used for deglazing some wonderful lobster dish, something like that, and bang the cook over the head with it!

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I worked under a chef who had worked under Robuchon for 5-6 years if I recall correctly. Patrick was always kind, goes to show that not everyone walks away from similiar experiences with similiar attitudes. Patrick very kindly told the kitchen staff to teach me everything.

True the things described happen in French kitchens, but there is a sensationalistic element to some of the descriptions. As if they are cool and happen more often than they actually do.

What is that saying? Something like the further away from the source a story gets, the taller the story?

When I started at 14 I was a full grown man, 6 feet tall and 185 pounds. I'm skinnier now. No chef ever gave me shit. The attitude I had back then was the same I have now. I tell my students all the time be humble. I see no need to humiliate people into humility with knee jerk reactions and plate throwing. I'm not exactly soft-spoken and passive either with staff and students. I've never found a need to be more that simply stern.

Maybe I'll write a book about it one of these days. If my wife didn't read the boards I have some stories to tell about all the French girlfriends I had. The story of legendary Moors are all true by the way...

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Wow, chefzadi. Thanks for your perspective as someone who has been a professional for many years. I was beginning to think that I was only one of the few here who felt that it was actually possible to motivate someone to achieve excellence or at least their best by treating them with decency and respect, along with the sincere desire to see them succeed. I suspected that we've been hearing more than a few war stories that have probably become more grandiose as the years go by.

Maybe somewhere, someday on American television--God Know's it won't be Fox--someone could create a show with real people all around. Say, contestants who want a career in the restaurant business with backgrounds that give them a real shot at achieving their goals; an intelligent, talented chef with the right mixture of discipline and encouragement; set in a real fledgling restaurant -- with nothing scripted. Afterall, real life is often more than enough drama for people to handle.

[chefzadi]

Maybe somewhere, someday on American television--God Know's it won't be Fox--someone could create a show with real people all around.  Say, contestants who want a career in the restaurant business with backgrounds that give them a real shot at achieving their goals; an intelligent, talented chef with the right mixture of discipline and encouragement; set in a real fledgling restaurant -- with nothing scripted.   Afterall, real life is often more than enough drama for people to handle.

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Diva what you say is heresy!

A sous chef or a master chef can't be 'created', 'molded' in 8 weeks or whatever time period these shows have. The professionals involved know that. If an argument can be made for a culinary student, a housewife with 6 kids, a corporate headhunter who have little or no proffessional cooking experience taking this leap in such a short amount of time let's hear it. Yes, it's only TV, but for a celebrity chef to say "I can make anyone a masterchef" yeah, well, sort of...

Master chefs are created in two ways: God given gift plus a shitload of hard work or an investor with deep pockets who can hire a sous chef who has this God given gift and will do the shitload of work. (btw, investors often make the biggest fools of chefs. Take my picture for a playing card.)

As for the type of show you propose. Realistically I see a functioning kitchen line in the time frame allotted for these types of shows and the attention span of the audience. I can do it with homecooks or would be professionals.

[chefzadi]

God forbid someone told a women i was with to shut the f' up.. Chef or not i would have jumped over the counter and punched guy in the throat..  I cant believe he treated some random person that way, even if they werent paying, which i  assume.. I could see him hazing a contestant, but to belittle a women like that really shows what a piece of shit coward he is..  I will watch the show because it is entertaining at times, but what a loser Ramsey is..  I wonder if his hatred of women and his obsession with the kitchen are all some sort of mommy issue little Gordy needs to deal with professionally..

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In "real life" (which this show certainly is not) Ramsay is actually quite well known for being a good mentor to up-and-coming female chefs, Angela Hartnett being a good example. I heard an interview with him recently where he talked about how he would love to see more women in the kitchens of fine dining restaurants.

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Yes he is, apparently he is involved in scholarship programs as well.

I like his menus alot. He's a purist. His plating is simple, nothing extraneous.

As for his behaviour on TV shows, I just don't get it. I have no comments about it either. He's doing well for himself with the persona. Maybe since his food is not about novelty like some other Michelin star chefs, his personality is to keep up public interest. Dunno.

[Busboy]

Maybe somewhere, someday on American television--God Know's it won't be Fox--someone could create a show with real people all around.  Say, contestants who want a career in the restaurant business with backgrounds that give them a real shot at achieving their goals; an intelligent, talented chef with the right mixture of discipline and encouragement; set in a real fledgling restaurant -- with nothing scripted.    Afterall, real life is often more than enough drama for people to handle.

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Diva what you say is heresy!

A sous chef or a master chef can't be 'created', 'molded' in 8 weeks or whatever time period these shows have. The professionals involved know that. If an argument can be made for a culinary student, a housewife with 6 kids, a corporate headhunter who have little or no proffessional cooking experience taking this leap in such a short amount of time let's hear it. Yes, it's only TV, but for a celebrity chef to say "I can make anyone a masterchef" yeah, well, sort of...

Master chefs are created in two ways: God given gift plus a shitload of hard work or an investor with deep pockets who can hire a sous chef who has this God given gift and will do the shitload of work. (btw, investors often make the biggest fools of chefs. Take my picture for a playing card.)

As for the type of show you propose. Realistically I see a functioning kitchen line in the time frame allotted for these types of shows and the attention span of the audience. I can do it with homecooks or would be professionals.

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So, you're chef, and someone walks into the kitchen and says: "I have no real cooking experience, but I spent eight weeks being screamed at by Gordon Ramsey on TV. I know I may look like a fool for having done that, but I wanted to cook, and I was excited about the chance to learn from a master. I know better than ever after that, that I am far from a chef, but I'd like to try my hand as a line cook or commis in your kitchen."

Do you a) laugh them out of the kitchen; b) assume that they've hopelessy romanticized life in a professional kitchen and tell them to try somewhere else; or c) figure anybody who could stick it out in such a bizarre situation may well have the cojones to work professionally and hey, they most have learned something from the Great Man, and give them a shot?

And another thing: Something that hasn't been much discussed but which may well be more of a factor than the skills of the individual cooks, is the difficulty of coordinating the little kitchen ballet when you have five people cooking, none of whom have ever worked with another of their team. So much of a good kitchen (as it appeared to me from the other side of the line) is timing, instinct, periferal vision and trust -- all of which take time to develope -- that even pros would have trouble serving a full house efficiently on a first night together.

[chefzadi]

So, you're chef, and someone walks into the kitchen and says: "I have no real cooking experience, but I spent eight weeks being screamed at by Gordon Ramsey on TV. I know I may look like a fool for having done that, but I wanted to cook, and I was excited about the chance to learn from a master. I know better than ever after that, that I am far from a chef, but I'd like to try my hand as a line cook or commis in your kitchen."

Do you a) laugh them out of the kitchen; b) assume that they've hopelessy romanticized life in a professional kitchen and tell them to try somewhere else; or c) figure anybody who could stick it out in such a bizarre situation may well have the cojones to work professionally and hey, they most have learned something from the Great Man, and give them a shot?

And another thing: Something that hasn't been much discussed but which may well be more of a factor than the skills of the individual cooks, is the difficulty of coordinating the little kitchen ballet when you have five people cooking, none of whom have ever worked with another of their team. So much of a good kitchen (as it appeared to me from the other side of the line) is timing, instinct, periferal vision and trust -- all of which take time to develope -- that even pros would have trouble serving a full house efficiently on a first night together.

C

As for the kitchen ballet. I'd rather comment on that in another thread because I'm not up for watching the show. In LA two shows were shown back to back, I saw parts of the first and was not interested in seeing the next one. My wife and I hardly ever watch TV.

EDIT: A TV show on how the kitchen line works might attract a good sized audience. There seems to be a lot of interest and misunderstanding. I hope they pick a chef who has alot of experience organizing them and would not benefit from making it seem more convoluted and mysterious then it actually is.

Edited June 9, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

[Keith Talent]

Surely he's never spoken to real customers like he does on the show? I can beleive he's verbally abusive to staff, but the public? No way, he'd be in a fist fight once a week. Get a couple glasses of wine in some hothead, have Ramsay tell him to fuck off and it'd be on.

I can see him talking shit once the customer leaves, but to their face? No chance.

[divalasvegas]

Maybe somewhere, someday on American television--God Know's it won't be Fox--someone could create a show with real people all around.  Say, contestants who want a career in the restaurant business with backgrounds that give them a real shot at achieving their goals; an intelligent, talented chef with the right mixture of discipline and encouragement; set in a real fledgling restaurant -- with nothing scripted.    Afterall, real life is often more than enough drama for people to handle.

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Diva what you say is heresy!

A sous chef or a master chef can't be 'created', 'molded' in 8 weeks or whatever time period these shows have. The professionals involved know that. If an argument can be made for a culinary student, a housewife with 6 kids, a corporate headhunter who have little or no proffessional cooking experience taking this leap in such a short amount of time let's hear it. Yes, it's only TV, but for a celebrity chef to say "I can make anyone a masterchef" yeah, well, sort of...

Master chefs are created in two ways: God given gift plus a shitload of hard work or an investor with deep pockets who can hire a sous chef who has this God given gift and will do the shitload of work. (btw, investors often make the biggest fools of chefs. Take my picture for a playing card.)

As for the type of show you propose. Realistically I see a functioning kitchen line in the time frame allotted for these types of shows and the attention span of the audience. I can do it with homecooks or would be professionals.

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Great! I am definitely a home cook who could be a would be professional, so I guess I qualify. Now then, just two more questions, chefzadi, 1) How do I sign up for your course to make ME America's next superstar chef/restaurant mogul/multi-millionaire? and 2) once I complete the course, can we increase the budget for my free new restaurant from $2 million to $5 million since in DC $2 million will barely pay for a McDonald's franchise--that is unless my free new restaurant is a McDonald's franchise.

[chefzadi]

Maybe somewhere, someday on American television--God Know's it won't be Fox--someone could create a show with real people all around.  Say, contestants who want a career in the restaurant business with backgrounds that give them a real shot at achieving their goals; an intelligent, talented chef with the right mixture of discipline and encouragement; set in a real fledgling restaurant -- with nothing scripted.   Afterall, real life is often more than enough drama for people to handle.

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Diva what you say is heresy!

A sous chef or a master chef can't be 'created', 'molded' in 8 weeks or whatever time period these shows have. The professionals involved know that. If an argument can be made for a culinary student, a housewife with 6 kids, a corporate headhunter who have little or no proffessional cooking experience taking this leap in such a short amount of time let's hear it. Yes, it's only TV, but for a celebrity chef to say "I can make anyone a masterchef" yeah, well, sort of...

Master chefs are created in two ways: God given gift plus a shitload of hard work or an investor with deep pockets who can hire a sous chef who has this God given gift and will do the shitload of work. (btw, investors often make the biggest fools of chefs. Take my picture for a playing card.)

As for the type of show you propose. Realistically I see a functioning kitchen line in the time frame allotted for these types of shows and the attention span of the audience. I can do it with homecooks or would be professionals.

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Great! I am definitely a home cook who could be a would be professional, so I guess I qualify. Now then, just two more questions, chefzadi, 1) How do I sign up for your course to make ME America's next superstar chef/restaurant mogul/multi-millionaire? and 2) once I complete the course, can we increase the budget for my free new restaurant from $2 million to $5 million since in DC $2 million will barely pay for a McDonald's franchise--that is unless my free new restaurant is a McDonald's franchise.

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Sadly Diva, it doesn't quite work that way on my show. Basically after 8 weeks you will be a functioning line cook for a particular station for a specific menu. I'd probably choose a French Bistro or Bouchon menu, maybe at the end do a more upscale menu for fun.

But hey, aim high Diva!

[WHT]

As for the kitchen ballet. I'd rather comment on that in another thread because I'm not up for watching the show. In LA two shows were shown back to back, I saw parts of the first and was not interested in seeing the next one. My wife and I hardly ever watch TV.

EDIT: A TV show on how the kitchen line works might attract a good sized audience. There seems to be a lot of interest and misunderstanding. I hope they pick a chef who has alot of experience organizing them and would not benefit from making it seem more convoluted and mysterious then it actually is.

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I think shows like The Food Channel’s In The Fire that spent some time in the restaurants are more interesting overall. With the technologies getting to the point that surveillance type cameras are close to broadcast quality we ma eventually get some better programs. This will make the production process less intrusive as it keeps camera people from having to be in the kitchen.

Then with proper selection of location the views will be almost first person type shots. Producers and directors can be off site and not have a chance to muck with anything but editing and assembly. If time stamping is used it will keep them even more honest as to how they portray a situation.

Then maybe we will see some informative kitchen drama.

[SKinCA]

Although I would be glued to the tube for a real life view of how the line works in a restaurant, I doubt the rest of America is up for it.

Let's face, those of us fascinated by the inner workings of a restaurant kitchen are in the minority. There probably aren't enough of us to provide a tv show with the kind of numbers they need to attract advertisers.

The Food Network didn't dumb it down out of spite or ignorance. Their market research and ratings showed that the audience overwhelmingly preferred their cooking shows to be personality-driven and not technique driven.

Hence we end up with Hell's Kitchen - GR - Bully Boy, Elsie - Stay At Home Mom, Chris - Overconfident Exec Chef, Dewberry - Fat Hick

GR isn't actually very different from an amped up Mr. Miyagi in "Karate Kid". His methods may seem cruel and arbitrary, but they teach valuable lessons which all will realize in the end. Wax on, wax off, y'all!

The reality show formula requires easily recognized archetypes to function and must craft a storyline (though editing) that creates the dramatic arcs that we are all familiar with:

"Underdog Comes Out on Top", "Smug Guy Taken Down a Peg", "Timid Girl Finds Fortitude".

Things outside of this formula have a really tough time breaking through to mainstream America.

As someone referenced upthread "Ya gotta have gimmick!"

Now, if Chef Zadi would like to consider wearing a large scimitar in his belt and beheading failing line cooks, we could probably get THAT on Fox in a flash!

Famous tag line: "Off with their heads!"

[chefzadi]

Now, if Chef Zadi would like to consider wearing a large scimitar in his belt and beheading failing line cooks, we could probably get THAT on Fox in a flash! wink.gif

Famous tag line: "Off with their heads!"

My first name is Farid and with my dark North African looks the scene you suggest will probably bring in a lot of viewers. I assume the audience will be sharp enough to not jump to conclusions since the victims won't be in orange jumpsuits. (I don't know which emoticon to use, I am kidding).

As someone referenced upthread "Ya gotta have gimmick!"

I think my wife said that. I suppose if one lacks substance one needs a gimmick.

Seriously though, real kitchens aren't short of compelling characters. It's not one or the other, total hype or a total yawn.

[SKinCA]

My first name is Farid and with my dark North African looks the scene you suggest will probably bring in a lot of viewers. I assume the audience will be sharp enough to not jump to conclusions since the victims won't be in orange jumpsuits. (I don't know which emoticon to use, I am kidding).

I knew your background from your many excellent postings, Chef!

I was picturing something like Oded Fehr (on the left of this picture):

Chef Zadi In the Kitchen

only with a toque instead of the black headband.

I think it'd be a monster hit.

[prasantrin]

I was beginning to think that I was only one of the few here who felt that it was actually possible to motivate someone to achieve excellence or at least their best by treating them with decency and respect, along with the sincere desire to see them succeed.

Of course it's possible! I certainly strive to be one of those types of teachers. However, just as different people have different teaching styles, different people will also have different learning styles. The people who thrive under someone like Gordon Ramsay will likely be people who learn best with hard-ass no-nonsense teachers. They respond better to (sometimes over the top) criticism and directness, rather than to hedging and (sometimes false) praise. I would bet that Gordon Ramsay is that kind of learner, and so that is how he teaches. I, personally, am not one of those types, but who am I to tell others they can't possibly be, either?

Edited June 11, 2005 by prasantrin (log)

[touaregsand]

My first name is Farid and with my dark North African looks the scene you suggest will probably bring in a lot of viewers. I assume the audience will be sharp enough to not jump to conclusions since the victims won't be in orange jumpsuits. (I don't know which emoticon to use, I am kidding).

I knew your background from your many excellent postings, Chef!

I was picturing something like Oded Fehr (on the left of this picture):

Chef Zadi In the Kitchen

only with a toque instead of the black headband.

I think it'd be a monster hit.

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Interesting imagery.

You'll be able to see him in chef's whites for the Le Cordon Bleu North America commercial. I hear he has a speaking part. Think of a swarthy, younger Jacques Pepin with cross-cultural appeal.

prasantrin

Of course it's possible! I certainly strive to be one of those types of teachers. However, just as different people have different teaching styles, different people will also have different learning styles. The people who thrive under someone like Gordon Ramsay will likely be people who learn best with hard-ass no-nonsense teachers. They respond better to (sometimes over the top) criticism and directness, rather than to hedging and (sometimes false) praise. I would bet that Gordon Ramsay is that kind of learner, and so that is how he teaches. I, personally, am not one of those types, but who am I to tell others they can't possibly be, either?

What happened to the Sargeant in Full Metal Jacket? One of the contestants has the same look in his eyes as Private Gomer Pyle/Leonard Lawrence.

Inthenews.co.uk

Granada TV has reportedly settled out of court with a man threatening to sue TV chef Gordon Ramsay.

The man, a contestant on the US version of Hell's Kitchen, sprained his ankle when he fell over during a clash with the firebrand chef.

So Hollywood...

[Allen]

What would you have made if told you had 45 minutes to make a signature dish for GR?

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I'm unsure but I'm thinking urine may be involved.

[debler]

2nd episode opinions?

No shock for Dewberry's departure...

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Bye, Bye muffin boy!

[prasantrin]

What happened to the Sargeant in Full Metal Jacket? One of the contestants has the same look in his eyes as Private Gomer Pyle/Leonard Lawrence.

But the Sgt. used the wrong teaching method for his students.

[chiffonade]

Loved Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares and we're loving HK. It's a bit extreme but that's the way we do reality in the US - we have to make it so ridiculous as to be a caricature of itself.

I wish they had just let him be him (as he was in RKN). Still very high handed and at times abrasive but not over the top like this.

The chef coat on the meathook is a nice touch and a downright poetic ending to every show. I'm anxious to see how Elsa does after nearly passing out in the first show when he sampled her dish (which was one of the few he enjoyed).

I'm glad Dewberry is gone - his skin was not near as thick as it needed to be to take that kind of pressure. A pastry chef usually works alone in an empty kitchen (with maybe a prep cook or two) and Dewberry was just not suited for the line.

I think Dewberry found a certain degree of "relief" being jettisoned.

[touaregsand]

Loved Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares and we're loving HK. It's a bit extreme but that's the way we do reality in the US - we have to make it so ridiculous as to be a caricature of itself.

I wish they had just let him be him (as he was in RKN). Still very high handed and at times abrasive but not over the top like this.

I caught an episode of RKN on BBC America yesterday. I've never seen the show before. He's really funny and likeable when he's being himself. Gives alot of sound advice to the 'chef' who thinks it's okay to have moldy food in the refrigerator and is trying to be fancy when he doesn't even know the basics. There's certainly no shortage of places like this in America with similar chefs and clueless owners. RKN Hollywood would have been hilarious!

[Siren]

God, I miss having BBC America.... *sigh*

[Tonyy13]

Woa, this week was crazy. People expelling solid mass via the male urethra, someone calling GR an asshole, I mean, what more could you ask for? Jeff is an idiot. He needed to go week 1. I found myself yelling at Jeff via television (that is two uses of the latin via in the first paragraph... I am feeling supremely educated and skilled after watching the show....

In college, I took a management course specifically meant for people who were workign in the kitchen. It labeled people into 4 different catagories: Peacock (fragile, but loves to show off what they do good, almost ornameltal in their sucesses, very quick to fall when you bring up their failures), an Eagle (A born leader, someone who is strong, and soars above the rest, but is an easy target as someone who usually flies above solo, and therefore, usually does whatever is possible to avoid making a fool of himself becuase they will take the heat alone [sound familiar? Sounds like people who work and act like GR, they are motivated by being a leader, and work better when they are embarassed becuase they do whatever it takes to not be embarassed in front of the group..... I happen to fall into this category]), a black bear (silent, but very strong and resilliant, but need to be poked and prodded every now and again becuase they tend to go off on their own), and then there was one other animal that fit a description, but I wasn't paying attention in class, I was busy soaring over th etree tops...

Point is, some of us are motivated by this type of situation. Whiel GR is over the top sometimes, I can understand what he is doing. If you think this type of training fails to get the best from some people, than you need to watch a Discovery Channel thing on Basic Training for Militaries around the world. When was the last time you saw a drill sergent really encouraging a recruit over that wall that is just too high? Never. Why? Because they are training them to react to a situation, to assess a problem, and to react to it with the correct action without having to think about it, using valuable time, and in turn, probably making the situation worse (sounds like a pro kitchen to me...). They are expected to preform a task over and over, time after time, with exactly the same result... a desireable trait in a line cook.

Here comes the storm....

[chefzadi]

Woa, this week was crazy.  People expelling solid mass via the male urethra, someone calling GR an asshole, I mean, what more could you ask for?  Jeff is an idiot.  He needed to go week 1.  I found myself yelling at Jeff via television (that is two uses of the latin via in the first paragraph... I am feeling supremely educated and skilled after watching the show....

In college, I took a management course specifically meant for people who were workign in the kitchen.  It labeled people into 4 different catagories:  Peacock (fragile, but loves to show off what they do good, almost ornameltal in their sucesses, very quick to fall when you bring up their failures), an Eagle (A born leader, someone who is strong, and soars above the rest, but is an easy target as someone who usually flies above solo, and therefore, usually does whatever is possible to avoid making a fool of himself becuase they will take the heat alone [sound familiar?  Sounds like people who work and act like GR, they are motivated by being a leader, and work better when they are embarassed becuase they do whatever it takes to not be embarassed in front of the group..... I happen to fall into this category]), a black bear (silent, but very strong and resilliant, but need to be poked and prodded every now and again becuase they tend to go off on their own), and then there was one other animal that fit a description, but I wasn't paying attention in class, I was busy soaring over th etree tops... 

Point is, some of us are motivated by this type of situation.  Whiel GR is over the top sometimes, I can understand what he is doing.  If you think this type of training fails to get the best from some people, than you need to watch a Discovery Channel thing on Basic Training for Militaries around the world.  When was the last time you saw a drill sergent really encouraging a recruit over that wall that is just too high?  Never.  Why?  Because they are training them to react to a situation, to assess a problem, and to react to it with the correct action without having to think about it, using valuable time, and in turn, probably making the situation worse (sounds like a pro kitchen to me...).  They are expected to preform a task over and over, time after time, with exactly the same result... a desireable trait in a line cook. 

Here comes the storm....

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Are we talking about Hell's Kitchen on Fox or RKN on BBC?

A thread on how the kitchen line works might be interesting for the audience here.

[Tonyy13]

Hell's Kitchen. RKN was great too though. A little bit more realistic GR. Remember when he puked? And when he argued with that idiot at the bar? And when he told that guy he was an idiot when he put pommegranite in the risotto? Genuine, authentic, even toned down a little bit.

chef, I also agree with the pro kitchen thread... it would be interesting....

I always thought that a show where the cameras would be following a commis doing a stage in a different kitchen eveyr week would be very insightful.

Edited June 14, 2005 by Tonyy13 (log)