Cookbook writers on eGullet

[Wolfert]

Do I need an agent? I've been researching this and have been in contact with a few who are interested. But I'm still sure if an agent is necessary

I think you do need an agent. Aside from getting you at least 20% more than you could get on your own, they know all the players in the business.

[torakris]

I have been tossing around the idea of a book for a while now. I have been thinking of turning my Daily Nihongo thread into a sort of Encyclopedia of Japanese Food with recipes included, though heavier on the information.

This thread is proving to be interesting.

[iheartoffal]

I wrote a cookbook in 5th grade. It included my mom's spaghetti carbonara recipe and a couple of cream of mushroom soup-laden casseroles. Does that count?

[Moopheus]

Do I need an agent? I've been researching this and have been in contact with a few who are interested. But I'm still sure if an agent is necessary

I think you do need an agent. Aside from getting you at least 20% more than you could get on your own

←

Which just covers the 15% they take from you. But seriously, most major publishers won't even look at your proposal without an agent. And they will in all likelyhood get you a better deal, not just in money up front but in contract details. Agents are evil, but they do serve a function.

I would suggest that Chow Guy should consult an agent before taking any kind of flat-fee, work-for-hire type deal.

[Nanna R]

I’ve written two huge cookbooks (6-700 pages). They are in Icelandic. Which means no one outside Iceland can read them and I can safely boast about how great they are … Well, they are bestsellers here.

I’ve also written two smaller books in English about Icelandic food. One was published in the US. I actually had no trouble getting that one published – I wrote to the publisher, asked if they were interested in an Icelandic cookbook, they said they were, I wrote a sample chapter and sent them, and we had a deal. Although having a recommendation from Alan Davidson (who suggested the book to me in the first place) probably didn’t hurt.

I'm currently working on a couple of cookbooks.

[pam claughton]

I’ve written two huge cookbooks (6-700 pages). They are in Icelandic. Which means no one outside Iceland can read them and I can safely boast about how great they are … Well, they are bestsellers here. 

I’ve also written two smaller books in English about Icelandic food. One was published in the US. I actually had no trouble getting that one published – I wrote to the publisher, asked if they were interested in an Icelandic cookbook, they said they were, I wrote a sample chapter and sent them, and we had a deal. Although having a recommendation from Alan Davidson (who suggested the book to me in the first place) probably didn’t hurt.

I'm currently working on a couple of cookbooks.

←

Nanna,

I'm curious, what is Icelandic food like? What are some of your classic dishes?

Pam

[jhlurie]

I have been tossing around the idea of a book for a while now. I have been thinking of turning my Daily Nihongo thread into a sort of Encyclopedia of Japanese Food with recipes included, though heavier on the information.

←

Hmm. Frankly, it's an interesting idea.

abbott and costello.  that fucking hurts.

i'm not going to push for a newman redford comparison, but can't we at least say dean martin and jerry lewis?

←

Heh. I think the problem is that only Costello was cool. Hey... how about Hope and Crosby?

[Pam R]

Levity aside, I gotta hand it to the person with the rocks to hold down an actual job and do all of the work to put together a real cookbook where they test the recipes and everything.  There's a lot of motivation and sweat equity that goes into that.  Best of luck!

←

Holds down a job?? Some of us just rely on the support of friends and family members

Do I need an agent? I've been researching this and have been in contact with a few who are interested. But I'm still sure if an agent is necessary.

←

I'm going to suggest looking at The Writer's Market. It lists most of the publishers in North America and tells you what type of books (ie: cookbooks) they publish and whether they accept unsolicited and unagented manuscripts.

I decided not to go with an agent and after 3 offers to publish negotiated myself between 2 publishers. When I told one publisher (American) that I was going with another (Canadian) the response was that perhaps they could buy the US rights - which is what happened. Having the two offers also helped me negotiate between the two - if there had only been one offer I would have likely taken whatever was offered.

Could I have gotten more with an agent? Maybe. But I'm very happy with both my publishers, and so far so good.

Edited April 19, 2005 by Pam R (log)

[TPO]

I'm working on two. I developed many of the recipes already for a couple of classes I taught. Now it is a matter of developing the hook, creating additional recipes, and writing the copy to go with them. And getting the book proposal done, which is no easy task.

[marlena spieler]

i've written a number of cookbooks, and have had different experiences with all of the publishers.

flat fee is evil, the publishers generally do that when they know they will be selling gazillions of books and that is usually the way it works out. also, when you write a book for flat fee, they generally keep the copyright as well, and you may well end up finging your book being cannibalized into books, books, books, all over the world, sold for a bargain, piled up on the table as bargain books, books that you worked very hard to create well and are seeing no renumeration past the initial fee. sometimes they even take your name off of it, so its as if they were stealing your work, though they could argue that they have purchased it. this is important when its writing that has meaning to you, and when it is recipes that are original, well thought through, special.

an agent is important, i have had several not very good agents. my last agent was also jamie olivers agent, guess who got short shrift in the deal? the agent before didn't really have the same vision for my work that i did. not having an agent on the same wave length is my loss, as Paula Wolfert says, they know everyone in the bizz and can get your ideas looked at quicker, and with more seriousness. i'm sure that my agent situation has been a big hurdle. living abroad and working in different countries is part of the problem, the antagonism of each country against the other, or at least one against the other, in my case.

i've had a number one best seller in britain, i've had books that don't earn back their advances, i've had books that were serialized in mags, and books that were published to a resounding silence. one of the books--the first one--i even illustrated. i've had books that were shortlisted for james beard and other awards, books that won world gourmand awards, and books that drove me nuts. books with typos that i couldn't rectify (usually the flat fee) and on and on.

perhaps i should have done something else with my life, something more practical, certainly something more renumerative.

but here is the thing: i LOVE writing cookbooks. i love writing, i love telling stories, i love feeding people, i love giving people recipes so that they can feed themselves something that i think is just so delicious i have to share it!

i love writing cookbooks because the research process is fascinating. the travel that goes on in the research introduces me to people and places i might not have met. it is a reason to go and do things, learn languages, poke around in peoples kitchens (well, my column spurs me on, too).

cookbooks make people happy, they tell a story, and my god i hope i can continue to do it forever. its like having a huge dinner party and setting out on the table the most delicious things you can think of, and then giving readers the ability to make it themselves.

so. why do i write cookbooks? i think i am addicted to the process. and i love hearing someone say that they made my recipe for this or that and it was so delicious and the whole family/dinner party/etc loved it.

but i think i do need a new agent.

good luck,

marlena

oh, and iheartoffal, your cookbook sounds so deliciously sincere, it warms my heart.

[Michael Ruhlman]

There were 3,140 cookbooks published last year in America, according to a prominent database. More than in any other year ever. That’s an astonishing number.

My biggest advice to anyone setting out to do this is to ask Has this been done already and then, Why do why need another cookbook? I’m not saying we don’t, only that you have to be able to answer that question emphatically and passionately. Unless you’re Rachael Ray or Thomas Keller, you’re unlikely to make money from a cookbook. So: you write a cookbook because you must, because you will implode if you don’t, because it’s your passion, because you are something of a lunatic (which is fine, and not up to you anyway).

I hate writing cookbooks, and I’m still doing it. I love the specialty of charcuterie and so am finishing that book now, a love song to a great culinary craft, to salt, to animal fat, to the pig. It should be no surprise that I couldn’t lease a car from the advance I and my friend Brian Polcyn received for it from Norton. Indeed it was really hard to sell—and I’m no longer a stranger in this world; we only sold it because there was an editor out there as lunatic as we were. But it was great fun to write, and a great way to educate myself about the finer points of the craft. That’s the best part of writing a book, it’s an education.

Yes, you need an agent for all the reasons already stated. An agent also will help you if your editor leaves the house mid project or if you’re unhappy with the way it’s being produced. An agent is your best advocate and has considerably more muscle than you, and you don’t want to spend your time reading contracts or haggling over money (especially if you’re collaborating with a chef, who must be your friend during the project).

Jamiemaw, how may copies was that first run? What is a lot of copies? Rule of thumb: it’s hard to sell 10,000 copies of a book. If you sell 30,000 that’s really really good. 50,000 is extraordinary. The French Laundry Cookbook, there are now, I believe 300,000 copies in print, this is a fluke and a phenomenon. Just some perspective. Rachael Ray can sell 4,000 books in a weekend, every weekend, just by showing up.

Where are cookbooks headed? I think they’re more and more telling stories and this is good and this is why they’re valuable. I’m not much of a recipe person—recipes are a dime a dozen. Stories are unique. Part of how we can get at story, though, is through the eccentricities and finer points of a recipe. This is most valuable part of a recipe in a cookbook to me.

Soul of a Chef and Making were solo efforts, and not cookbooks. I’m writing a third right now—and it’s sheer heaven to work alone, but also precarious and nerve-racking. FLC was a unique and wonderful assignment (a gift from God, in fact, to a writer who at the time was virtually unpublished in the food world). I wrote that whole book in third person, non-fiction narrative style (and reported it the way I would report any non-fiction story). The editor asked me to rewrite it in first-person Thomas because it would sell better, so I did. I don’t consider it to be ghost written (perhaps ghost edited). I’m very protective and proud of that work. Bouchon is completely ghost written—that was the intent all along. I’m proud of that as well, but in a different way (it’s also my favorite book to cook from, when I cook from a book). A Return to Cooking was such a bizarre and unlikely project, I couldn’t say no to the exuberant and articulate and very talented Eric Ripert.

They are all great fun to write, and they grow increasingly nightmarish as the editors get their hands on your manuscript. That may simply be the nature of the beast.

I wish every one who attempts a book good luck and stamina. Get it right, because once it’s published, it’s permanent.

[bourdain]

And note the time of Ruhlman's post: What is it--6:45 Cleveland time? And Michael's already slopped the hogs, milked the cows, hosed down the double-wide, knocked out 20 pages on pediatric phrenology for one book, 15 pages for another on 16th century Kurdish erotica--and he's now halfway through a festive description of tete du porc. as he pauses to dick around on line before filing that "Rocco Redux" story for Gourmet.

THAT, my friends, is a motherfucking professional.

[Jason Perlow]

Oh gosh, did we forget Tony? Tony's book is an absolute must-buy, if you're looking to reproduce battle-hardened French Bistro food at home.

[Michael Ruhlman]

i still gotta work for a living bourdain. my advice to you is get off your lazy ass and write books. god gave you gift, the reason for which is mysterious but so be it. all this tv and travel and even the disposable magazine articles, diverting thought they are, not to mention the extra curriculars with go with corrupt media life of limos and babes and free flowing gray goose, is going to kill what you have. you'll be washed up in a jones st bar trying to play working man's hero on a six string to a lot of NYU film students before you're 50.

[russ parsons]

you'll be washed up in a jones st bar trying to play working man's hero on a six string to a lot of NYU film students before you're 50.

←

something the rest of us can only aspire to.

[russ parsons]

actually, i consider myself an accidental cookbook writer. i never really intended to do one. after 20 years writing about food for newspapers, i was of the firm opinion that there were far too many cookbooks in the world already. but then i had an idea that i thought might contribute to somebody cooking a better dinner and found an agent and an editor willing to take it on. i was extraordinarily lucky with "french fry" and i am eternally grateful (and cognizant of the fact that it probably won't happen the same way for the next book).

but i have to agree with everything everyone has said about warning folks away. i'm really lucky in that i've been writing about food for years, have a lot of recipes saved up, have a good full time job and (most key from the publisher's point of view, i think) have a "platform"--that's what they call a reputation from another field that they hope will help you sell books. all that said, even with a pretty generous advance, by the time you divide it over the three years it takes from inception to publication, it's not a whole lot of money.

unless you're extraordinarily talented, extraordinarily well known or extraordinarily cute (and 2 of those 3 wouldn't be bad), writing cookbooks is really a part-time job that must be supplemented by something else--journalism, cooking classes, consulting, or, best of all, independent income.

but i've been giving that speech for years now, and i don't think i've dissuaded a single person. we are an optimistic species.

[highchef]

I don't want to get hit in the crossfire, but I'll venture in as a paying customer. I like the stories behind the recipes as well. I want to know how this evolved and where it's been and why you tweaked it the way you did. I buy cookbooks. Often. I read them and use them. I want quality writing. I want interesting recipes. I don't want to have to slaughter the pig so keep it to stuff I CAN DO! And more and more I'm drawn to the quality of the book itself...Les Halles and Folse's cajun encyclopedia come to mind. The former has pages that are almost cardboard like. I don't worry about it when it's open on the counter. It's one of the reasons I forked over the 35 bucks. The latter has pages so slick I figure tabasco would bead up on it. I'm not worried to use it either.

I would ask that if your gonna write a book, test it in your mama's kitchen first. Are you listening Tyler Florence? Nowhere did I read that your 9" cake pans are 1/2" deeper than mine. That flub cost me an afternoon of cleaning my oven!

Last...the regional cookbooks are the ones that really crack me up. The signature phrase down here for a great recipe is "men go wild for this!"

Don't discount the entertainment value, a new cookbook can be enjoyed as much as the new Grissom novel. Just my cheap thoughts.

Edited April 20, 2005 by highchef (log)

[Michael Ruhlman]

you'll be washed up in a jones st bar trying to play working man's hero on a six string to a lot of NYU film students before you're 50.

←

something the rest of us can only aspire to.

←

on open mic night?

[Michael Ruhlman]

russ,

this may be confidential info, but would you mind saying how many copies of the book were sold or printed in hard and soft cover. i'd heard the book did very well and it would be helpful to know what 'very well' means.

if you don't mind, very curious.

michael

[pam claughton]

Don't discount the entertainment value, a new cookbook can be enjoyed as much as the new Grissom nove. Just my cheap thoughts.

←

I agree. When I buy a new cookbook, I sit down and read the thing front to back, just like a page-turning novel. I like lots of little stories and info about the food, or restaurant life or anything that might be of interest. Sometimes, this backstory info makes me more interested in trying a recipe that I may have passed on.

Pam

[russ parsons]

would you mind saying how many copies of the book were sold or printed in hard and soft cover.  i'd heard the book did very well and it would be helpful to know what 'very well' means.

←

i'm not being coy, but i'm not really sure. it really was one of those crazy things. the first printing in hard was ridiculously small--something like 15,000. but thanks to the sainted terri gross and all the people who liked the book, i think we went through three printings before the thing was technically for sale. my recollection is that there were four printings, with probably 50,000 to 60,000 in hard (who knows how many of those were returns, though). i have absolutely no earthly idea how many papers were printed (or sold). some day i've got to get professional about this ... but probably not.

i am also proud to announce that "french fry" has been translated into two languages--japanese and polish (wtf?). they sent me a box of the japanese books, which are nice to have but useful primarily as a doorstop since i don't read japanese (it took me about a half-hour to find my name on the cover). a japanese friend translated it to me: i love the title (how to read a french fry is a pretty specific pun that doesn't translate): "Macho Cooking the Rational Way."

[jamiemaw]

That’s the best part of writing a book, it’s an education.

Jamiemaw, how may copies was that first run? 

←

We published 10,000 in the first run and have reprinted 4,000. The first run is sold out; 2,000 of the second run have already been sold to one corporate user. Royalties went from 10 to 15% for the second printing. The cover price is CDN $40 (US $32), quite expensive for a soft cover book, attractive as it is. Several book discounters sold as low as CDN $28.

Where are cookbooks headed?  I think they’re more and more telling stories and this is good and this is why they’re valuable.

I conveniently left out several important points from my earlier post:

1. The Story: Really a Coming of Age meets Collaborative hook--how Vancouver has emerged as the West Coast's premier culinary destination and how 54 chefs could get together without ensuing lacerations.

2. I blithely skipped over the Recipe Testing, which is the real bullwork of any cook book. My co-editor, Joan Cross, expertly expedited that, including shopping, translation from professional chefs ("Take 15 litres of beefy stock and reduce until barely flacid . . .'), prep, cooking, note-taking, adjustment and presentation. We also had a few potluck dinners where we conived for some of the chefs to cook each other's recipes.

3. The 54 Chefs' Biographies were challenging: How not to repeat that "Rupert is an avid forager and is supremely interested in Okanagan Valley boar cheeks, Stoney Paradise heirloom tomatoes and his chef de partie." When I finally finished them (actually on holiday in Hawaii), my fiancee called them "Bio-Hazards."

4. In addition to signing in their restaurants, the chefs also promoed their recipes in one-night and month-long restaurant specials to promote the book, and attended signings in book stores around the province. That is still going on for the second printing.

5. Distribution: A culinary book seller, Barbara-Jo McIntosh, took some time out from hosting Bourdain, Oliver and other culinary flyweights and arranged small-distribution lots (i.e. by the caseload) of books to the restaurants. This allowed us to negotiate a benevolent price with the publisher and enhanced profit for The Chefs Table Society well above the standard royalty arrangement.

This is a very workable template for other cities punching above their gastrotouristic weight--I hope that they follow suit.

Edited April 19, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[bourdain]

i still gotta work for a living bourdain. my advice to you is get off your lazy ass and write books.  god gave you gift, the reason for which is mysterious but so be it. all this tv and travel and even the disposable magazine articles, diverting thought they are, not to mention the extra curriculars with go with corrupt media life of limos and babes and free flowing gray goose, is going to kill what you have.  you'll be washed up in a jones st bar trying to play working man's hero on a six string to a lot of NYU film students before you're 50.

←

Currently sitting on my balcony at the Chateau Marmont thinking of you, Ruhlman-nothing more worrisome in my grey goose impaired head than whether to nibble on the complimentary cheese assortment washed down with Veuve--or stagger down to the Tikki bar and get seriously into negronis.. If Brad and Angelina don't keep me up all night again with that racket nextdoor, I'll probably drill out a few chapters before Sonny Barger comes over with the smoke and things get really crazy.

And I TOLD the front desk: NO BROWN M&Ms! At least they got the thread count right this time. ...Cookbooks are great!

[chefzadi]

My biggest advice to anyone setting out to do this is to ask Has this been done already and then, Why do why need another cookbook? I’m not saying we don’t, only that you have to be able to answer that question emphatically and passionately. Unless you’re Rachael Ray or Thomas Keller, you’re unlikely to make money from a cookbook. So: you write a cookbook because you must, because you will implode if you don’t, because it’s your passion, because you are something of a lunatic (which is fine, and not up to you anyway).

I've asked myself this question and I also posed the question on egullet regarding two books that I'm working on. The first one is on Algerian cookery. There is very little written about it, even in French or Arabic and as far as I know almost nothing in English. Two librarian friends of mine have searched for me and Paula has also told me that very little is available. At the risk of sounding arrogant I am one of a handful of people in the world who can write about Algerian cooking with depth. The country is located in the center of the Magreb so it has greater range than Moroccan and Tunisia, the sub-saharan portion is also vast so we have some examples of black African cooking. As for French cuisine I have a story to tell as well about Lyon and the Beaujolais. It's where I was born and raised, began my career and it's also considered by many to the center of French cuisine. I would discuss the history of restaurants including Les Meres, Eugenie Brazier and Bouchons (why this type of Bistro exemplefies terroir based cooking and is only found in Lyon). I would also visit places I've worked, generations of farmers that sold to my parents and who I bought from. So the perspective is dual professional cooking and the home cooking I grew up with. As for the techniques and recipes I have experience teaching professional and recreational classes so I think that I can explain it very clearly to different levels of cooks. I would include cuisine gastronomique techniques, but try to explain them thoroughly so that less experienced cooks understand which are not absolutely 'necessary', as well as what the effects are of omitting certain steps or ingredients are. In this way one learns how to cook.

I was hesitant about going with an agent because six months ago a top agent told me that he was seriously interested but that I needed to spend 6 months to a year building a stronger platform of public appearances. So I've been doing that getting interviews online and in print. This is alot of work as well. So I was beginning to question just exactly what an agent would do for me. I know two national vendors who would take the book and pay me to teach cooking classes in conjunction with a book promotion. But now after reading Paula's and Michael's responses I think that I will get back in touch with the agents who were interested.

I also think that the books would of strong interest to French language speakers. I wonder if anyone here as experience with their books being published in different languages?

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Are there many cookbook writers here? Or aspiring ones?  I am working on my first cookbook proposal, and wondered who else on egullet might have already published a cookbook, or is working on or thinking about doing one?

←

Oh! Me, me, me! I had to take a 4-month leave from school last year (broken ankle) and wrote the first, rough version. Now that I'm on yet another x-out for a few more weeks, I'm working on the proposal and getting the chapters ready to show to someone. I'm interested in the agent process, how to propose, etc. My book is not something that fits into a category, but I love it and I think it's pretty cool.

BTW, I loved How to Read A French Fry.