Good People, Lousy Tippers

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Saturday night, NYC, really nice restaurant, with two other couples who we've known for years but now live in different states. One of the couples is an old friend with her new husband (he's terrific).

We had oustanding food and service: rounds of drinks, tasting menu, three bottles of wine, lots of free stuff from the kitchen ... and my husband told me yesterday that he got a glance at the final checks and saw that the new husband tipped about 12%. I'm a little worried that the other couple did pretty much the same.

I have some ideas about how to try and fix this, but wondered if anyone else has had to deal with this situation. In the future if there's ever a question, we'll just tell them to add 20% before dividing the check. But that doesn't help the outstanding headwaiter and waiters who worked so hard for us.

Thanks for any guidance --

[Carolyn Tillie]

I'm not sure there is ever a good way to handle this in mixed company -- some folks think 12% is just fine and starting a row in the restaurant could cost you a friendship. I suppose if you believe you will be in a similar situation in the future, you can grab the check when it arrives, add the 20% and THEN tell everyone what their portion is. In having everyone figure out their own portion, you leave it to the laws of fate of what your friends are going to do.

If you feel strongly enough about the event now, you could always write to the management, explain what happened, and send over a little something more -- or small, individual gift certificates to the principals in question in perpetuity.

[emmapeel]

I've been pretty fortunate with friends tipping in restaurants...but I don't hesitate to say up front, "we're tipping 20%", if we're in that type of establishment. I don't think it's bad to tip 15% in regular restaurants. If I found myself in your situation, I would call and offer the tip for my friends. (It's possible they will decline.)

For some fun reading, read Waiter Rant , the life of a waiter, or Bitter Waitress which has the bad tipper database (very funny.) There may be some advice about this situation on these two blogs.

Once I wrote to Waiter Rant about advice on tipping, (My question was "Does the diner tip on on the total bill including or excluding tax?" He responded, excluding.) So, he may have an answer for you also.

Edited March 14, 2005 by emmapeel (log)

[slkinsey]

Once I wrote to Waiter Rant about advice on tipping, (My question was "Does the diner tip on on the total bill including or excluding tax?"  He responded, excluding.)

I always tip on the total bill and have always thought it was strange to care about this. Let's assume, for a moment, that the bill is for $250 per person before tax. NY State tax (8.625%) on that would be $21.56. So, assuming that you want to tip 20%, if you tip on the pre-tax amount, you're tipping 50 bucks. If you tip on the after-tax amount, you're tipping 54 bucks. For me, I don't think the difference between 300 bucks and 304 bucks is worth bothing about.

It's also worthy of note that the difference between pre- and after-tax calculation on a $100 bill tipped at 20% is $1.70, and the difference gets smaller and smaller as the bill goes down.

[docsconz]

We recently had dinner with another couple at one of my favorite restaurants. we had super service and food with extra foie gras thrown in. We split the bill other than the wine, which I paid for. Fortunately, I had not yet written down my tip, when I heard the other couple mention their tip of 15%. Rather than embarass them or the waitstaff, I left 25% on mine.

[emmapeel]

Once I wrote to Waiter Rant about advice on tipping, (My question was "Does the diner tip on on the total bill including or excluding tax?"  He responded, excluding.)

I always tip on the total bill and have always thought it was strange to care about this. Let's assume, for a moment, that the bill is for $250 per person before tax. NY State tax (8.625%) on that would be $21.56. So, assuming that you want to tip 20%, if you tip on the pre-tax amount, you're tipping 50 bucks. If you tip on the after-tax amount, you're tipping 54 bucks. For me, I don't think the difference between 300 bucks and 304 bucks is worth bothing about.

←

Sam, you're so right. It is of little concern. My question arose from the NY Times article "The Waiter you Stiffed has not Forgotten (Feb. 2, 2005)" on the subject which used "total bill" as a reference point, but never addressed the issue of tax. Suffice it to say, I also tip on the total bill.

[Tess]

When we dine with my father, we always leave some extra cash in the table.

If it were convenient, I would go around to the restaurant, explain to the hostess or somebody what happened and leave some money for the waiter to make it up to a 20% tip. I always think that if you get any free stuff, you should make sure the tip is 20%, and on the total, especially if they made extra trips to bring it out.

[zeitoun]

I had not yet written down my tip, when I heard the other couple mention their tip of 15%. Rather than embarass them or the waitstaff, I left 25% on mine.

←

I generally do this if I find myself in a similar situation.

I figured that if I am already spending $200 or $300 on dinner, it won't kill me to fork in an extra $10 or $15 just to make everyone happy.

[GordonCooks]

Most of my friends are on the same page (having worked or are working in the industry) When dining with new friends, I usually requst a seperate check with the excuse of buying a bottle of wine for the table. This way I can manage my own tip.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Most of my friends are on the same page (having worked or are working in the industry) .

←

Yeah -- this is where we usually are, as well. At Per Se, we just had 20% added to the bill and split between two credit cards. I'm sure that last weekend, my friend's husband tipped as he did out of habit or distraction, and I wish I'd have known the amount then. I still don't know about the other couple.

Anyway, I'm getting some great direction on how to fix this. I'll be in the city this week and will handle it then. They really were terrific.

An aside: to me, bringing a plate of food to the table takes as much energy/effort as someone serving a bottle of wine. I never can understand why people don't tip as much on wine with service like this.

Is there a tipping thread? I'm still making my way through eGullet! (love BitterWaitress, too!)

[chuck]

If I'm not sure about the other people I'm dining with I'll start a discussion at the end of the meal about how the service was. Something like, 'I thought the service was fine, I think I'd tip 20%. What do you guys think?' More diplomatic than telling everyone what to tip, and you find out for sure if someone else is going to tip 12%.

[winesonoma]

Went out with the neighbors years ago to a fun not at all fancy place. Great time and when the check came I paid my portion in cash with 20% on the table. He picks up my money and puts down his credit card. He left a 10% tip. He had the nerve to make money off me at dinner. Never went anywhere with them again. Thank heavens they moved.

[jgm]

I posted another story on another tipping thread about the madcap adventures I've had while dining out with my father, who thinks $5 is a generous tip for any bill over $30. Problem is, we often dine with other relatives, and I am reluctant to embarrass him in front of them. He deserves it, of course, but actually it's lost on him. He believes he's right, and if pushed, will start in with stories about being a 14-year-old dishwasher during the Depression.

I've learned to carry extra cash with me, and stuff a few extra bucks under the edge of my plate, or whatever I can get away with, without him noticing. I usually also try to keep some small envelopes in my purse, and if necessary will go to the ladies' room, and hand the envelope, with his/her name on it, to the server, or to a host or hostess if necessary, on my way back to the table. I despise having to go to such lengths, but I can't figure out any other way to handle it.

My husband, while we were dating, pulled a stunt like that once. Once. I let him know, a few days later, that I thought a 15 to 20 percent tip was mandatory, given what servers make and how hard they work. He got the hint. He can figure 15%, down to the penny, in his head. Myself, I just call that a minimum and put down the next highest dollar amount.

[Tess]

Went out with the neighbors years ago to a fun not at all fancy place. Great time and when the check came I paid my portion in cash with 20% on the table. He picks up my money and puts down his credit card. He left a 10% tip. He had the nerve to make money off me at dinner. Never went anywhere with them again. Thank heavens they moved.  

←

I can go you one better. I had dinner with a group of six, and one member of the party pocketed the cash that had been left on the table as a tip. The server came out and asked why there was no tip and this woman owned up that she'd taken it, feigning confusion in a way that seemed a little too practiced. I also got the feeling that she only confessed because other members in the group knew her well enough to suspect already. Why they ate with that person more than once is a question I can't begin to answer.

[rich]

Based on the title of this thread, what are your thoughts about lousy people who are good tippers?

[rich]

Here's a question. There is a very famous restaurant that very cleary states on the check and menu that a 12 percent service charge will be added to your bill in lieu of the waitperson's salary. What to do here? Do you add 20 percent on top of the 12 percent or do you add 10 percent, bringing the total tip to 20+ percent?

Edited March 14, 2005 by rich (log)

[emmapeel]

Here's a question. There is a very famous restaurant that very cleary states on the check and menu that a 12 percent service charge will be added to your bill in lieu of the waitperson's salary. What to do here? Do you add 20 percent on top of the 12 percent or do you add 10 percent, bringing the total tip to 20+ percent?

←

I believe you would add the percentage that equals 20%. On the other side of this topic, I once had a boss, who was British and was bi-national. She would be in New York two weeks and then in London for two. She took 6 guests to a well-known but not top-tier restaurant, and they added 20% bringing the bill to approx. $1400. She tipped 25% on top of that. I know she did not think, because she was stateside, that the gratuity had been already been added. I was sure she was not being extra generous, because no firm would allow a 45% gratuity and she would eventually have to pay it herself. I called the restaurant and queried them about it. The management assured me they pointed it out to her. When I said, "hmmmmm," their response was to offer me dinner with a guest. I did not go. I thought it was truly bad form on their part. It was a thorny situation. Because I didn't want the staff to lose the extra funds, I opted to keep my mouth shut.

Edited March 14, 2005 by emmapeel (log)

[robyn]

Based on the title of this thread, what are your thoughts about lousy people who are good tippers?

←

Knowing the politics in general here - Rush Limbaugh has sometimes mentioned on his radio show that he almost always leaves 50% tips when dining in Palm Beach (where he lives). You be the judge .

My husband and I tip 20% on the pre-tax bill. Unless there's something deficient about the service. Don't know if that's right - but it's nice to have a rule of thumb - and to live by it. Makes life easy. When we're with family our age - no problem. They think like us. We have picked up tabs for parents for many years - so that's not a problem either (even when - left to their own devices - they'd leave $5 on a $75 check). As for "friends" - if they don't see things our way - they aren't our friends for long. Robyn

P.S. If we have dinner for the first time with people who won't become friends - and we know they're leaving an adequate tip - my husband will go to the bathroom while everyone leaves - return and go back to the table - and leave an appropriate number of dollars on the table.

Edited March 15, 2005 by robyn (log)

[Luckylies]

okay- are we tipping on the pre drinks and tax total

or

with drinks no tax or

on the total altogether?

My parents never tip on drinks or tax at dinner, I tip on everything (lazy) and my dude tips on everything minus the tax.

who is right?

we all generally jump off at 20% and head from there (my parents more like 18 )

[Pan]

I think it's definitely wrong to subtract the cost of drinks before calculating the tip. I understand the argument in favor of subtraction but disagree with it. If the reason for drink markups is so the restaurant can make a higher profit, the servers should share in that profit.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

okay- are we tipping on the pre drinks and tax total

or

with drinks no tax or

on the total altogether?

In a really fine restaurant, we always start with 20% of the after-tax total, especially if we're camped at the table for a couple of hours. I always tip on drinks, and wine at the same rate. If it's a less-fancy place or we spend less time, we usually work with the pre-tax amount. I don't understand not tipping on drinks.

In the situation I described above, here's how it resolved: we learned that the other couple also tipped 20% on the total, and that the low-tipper's 12% was on the total, too. So, I didn't do anything yet, but I'm still really uneasy about it.

I took my 14 year old to the diner in our town last week. He had a huge breakfast, and by the time we left the diner had gone from 2 tables to ten, and most of them with a few shrieking children. The server was on by herself. My kid insisted that I leave her $40 for a $22 bill. I asked why she deserved it and he said, "she spoke to me -- not just you -- and didn't act like it was weird when I asked for two glasses of milk and a coke. A big tip might make her forget that she's going to be sweeping up Cheerios for the next hour."

Whatta kid.

[emmapeel]

So, I didn't do anything yet, but I'm still really uneasy about it.

I took my 14 year old to the diner in our town last week.  He had a huge breakfast, and by the time we left the diner had gone from 2 tables to ten, and most of them with a few shrieking children.  The server was on by herself. My kid insisted that I leave her $40 for a $22 bill. I asked why she deserved it and he said, "she spoke to me -- not just you -- and didn't act like it was weird when I asked for two glasses of milk and a coke.  A big tip might make her forget that she's going to be sweeping up Cheerios for the next hour." 

Whatta kid.

←

Whatta Kid is right. That is very thoughtful for such a young man and I'm impressed.

Regarding the original issue, I would probably do nothing now. I'm not a mathematician but it seems your group is at about 13-14% total tip? Not terrible if my math is somehow correct. (And I doubt it ). I know the service was exceptional, but things happen.

I never considered not tipping on drinks, because drinks require the service of the waitstaff (ordering from the bar, delivering, watching to see if the diner wants another, etc). I also adjust the tip depending on how long I've used the table unless the restaurant is empty, (such as an airport).

Edited March 21, 2005 by emmapeel (log)

[Luckylies]

say I order a $60 pitcher of margaritas with dinner or a $200 botle of wine. to me, it's insane to tip 25 % on this. I believe if you can't affort to tip properly, you don't deserve to order, yet. $12 on a pitcher or 40 bucks to open a bottle of wine (which takes the same amount off effort no matter the price) is just too much..am I crazy? cheap?

[Pan]

say I order a $60 pitcher of margaritas with dinner or a $200 botle of wine. to me, it's insane to tip 25 % on this.

←

I don't think anyone is suggesting you have to tip 25%.

I believe if you can't affort to tip properly, you don't deserve to order,

←

Precisely. Don't take out feelings of poverty on the waitstaff.

yet. $12 on a pitcher or 40 bucks to open a bottle of wine (which takes the same amount off effort no matter the price) is just too much..am I crazy? cheap?

←

You answered your own question above: If you believe you can't afford to tip that order, don't order those drinks. Waiters also put forth approximately the same effort in taking an order for a $30 entree as for a $7 entree, don't they? How about giving waitstaff a flat tip of $5, regardless of the price of what they bring for you? Nope, that's not the way it's done.

[Tess]

say I order a $60 pitcher of margaritas with dinner or a $200 botle of wine. to me, it's insane to tip 25 % on this. I believe if you can't affort to tip properly, you don't deserve to order, yet. $12 on a pitcher or 40 bucks to open a bottle of wine (which takes the same amount off effort no matter the price) is just too much..am I crazy? cheap?

←

If-- reading your previous post-- your base is 20%, how does it work out if you tip 15% on a meal where alcohol is a large percentage of the tab? That's what I do sometimes, as long as I don't think we were too labor-intensive a table to wait on, say we had an expensive bottle of wine and two plates of spaghetti. Unfortunately if you get a very fancy bottle of wine you often get a lot of attention as a result, and then I feel crappy for giving what might even be construed as a not good tip. On the other hand, we once got a fancy bottle of wine, left a 20% tip-- and had the waiter come over and say hi, and send us a dessert, next time we came in. So, assuming that was because of the previous visit's tip, in some circles 20% on a large wine tab is considered generous.

(I admit that $100 is normally my limit for a bottle of wine in a restaurant, and we usually go to places where we can spend a lot less or just get one glass. Wine prices are probably *the* reason we don't do much high-end dining out.)