Fried Chicken: Cook-Off 5

[kbjesq]

I tried the buttermilk overnight soak. Dusted with seasoned flour(in a leaky paper bag  ) and used what oil I had...a mix of canola,olive,grapeseed and lard. I really liked the results..I think I will spice up the next batch a little more but all in all it worked well. The chicken isn't greasy and has a lovely crunch to it. Thanks to all for the imput..it really helped.

←

Bravo!

[David Ross]

How delicious that I found this thread about Fried Chicken.

http://www.themediadrome.com/content/artic...lickin_good.htm

Hi David..I enjoyed the article..I was wondering if you changed your method for frying chicken..in the article the chicken is dipped in a batter and here you say cook it after the second dredge. Do you prefer the second method better? Your picture is killer.

←

Thanks. It depends on what I want in terms of the texture of the outer skin of the chicken. Sometimes I use the batter method for a softer skin more like Kentucky Fried Original. But if I want a more crispy skin like Kentucky Fried Extra Crispy, I prefer the the second dredge method that you see in the photo above. I use both techniques, but my personal favorite is the second method:

-Dredge the chicken

-Chill the chicken pieces

-Dredge a second time

-Fry in a pressure cooker

Seems to consistently work well.

[kbjesq]

David Ross, regarding your pressure cooker, does it look like this: Fagor Duo Pressure Cooker

I want to try pressure-cooked fried chicken, but this is the cooker that I own, and I can't find anything anywhere stating whether it is safe or unsafe to fry in it. I sent an email to the company (Fagor) and as I recall, they wrote back more or less stating that it was neither approved nor disapproved for frying.

After research, I did find that some pressure fryers (like the Wearever Chicken Bucket) aren't sold any more because (I guess) they are unsafe. Google turned up a few articles like this one stating that all the old-style pressure fryers are unsafe. I want pressure-fried chicken, but I don't want to blow up my kitchen in the process.

I did find something called a "pressure magic" by Fagor. Perhaps this is your model?

[David Ross]

David Ross, regarding your pressure cooker, does it look like this:  Fagor Duo Pressure Cooker

I want to try pressure-cooked fried chicken, but this is the cooker that I own, and I can't find anything anywhere stating whether it is safe or unsafe to fry in it.  I sent an email to the company (Fagor) and as I recall, they wrote back more or less stating that it was neither approved nor disapproved for frying.

After research, I did find that some pressure fryers (like the Wearever Chicken Bucket) aren't sold any more because (I guess) they are unsafe.  Google turned up a few articles like this one stating that all the old-style pressure fryers are unsafe.  I want pressure-fried chicken, but I don't want to blow up my kitchen in the process.

I did find something called a "pressure magic" by Fagor.  Perhaps this is your model?

←

I have the 'Pressure Magic' model by Fagor. I'm not sure if they still sell them, but if they do, it's worth the cost.

Yes, there is a lot of furor out there over the older models of pressure cookers and using them for deep-frying.

From the research I did when I wrote my piece on Fried Chicken for TheMediadrome.com, I found that the Fagor 'Pressure Magic' model was the only one safely certified for pressure cooking/deep frying.

I think that the controversy and issue of safety came about because there were home cooks who were using their standard pressure cookers to deep-fry when the cooker was not certified to do so. The basic idea of a pressure cooker is of course to cook foods under the intense pressure of steam. But think of adding the extra pressure of hot, bubbling oil, and steam, all under pressure. If you use a pot not certified to handle that, you would probably be creating the platform for a monumental explosion of steam and fat and chicken all over your kitchen walls.

Not to worry though if you use the Fagor 'Pressure Magic' model. I've used it for about 7 years now and never once had an accident. I want to make sure that the lid seals extremely tight onto the pot, so I do regularly clean the rubber seal that fits under the lid and I clean the grease that accumulates under the lid itself.

Ultimately what you are trying to create is the same flavor and texture of chicken that the Colonel fried or what you find at the grocery store deli-chicken fried in hot oil first, then finished in a large vat under steam pressure.

[kbjesq]

Thanks for this info. They do, indeed, still sell the pressure magic. But, with shipping, etc. it's about $300.00. And I really, really, really shouldn't get another cooking device . . . . at least for a few months.

[Marlene]

I rarely fry anything, but this thread is making me pretty interested in doing some chicken. There doesn't seem to be consensus on the buttermilk soak...but it sounds like a good idea. Also, what types of oil seem to be favored? Lard is out for me. Would you want a different oil if you deep-fry vs. shallow fry? Do most of you prefer the taste of peanut oil to corn oil when it comes to fried chicken?

I notice that several folks are sheepish about frying skinless, boneless chicken. If I died and went to heaven I would eat lots of chicken skin and plenty of bacon, but I really can't do that in this life--at least not very often. (And what, by the way, is a chicken tender? Is it just a kid-sized piece of white meat?)

About the highest best use for larger pieces of boneless, skinless fried chicken hit the East Bay several years ago in the form of Betty's Bakesale, a small shop that sells pastries and a few sandwiches. Word spread and lines were long for Betty's fried chicken sandwich. It's simple and fabulous. It looks like she cuts a half breast into approx 3 or maybe 4 lengthwise pieces. I believe she does a  buttermilk soak, but I'm not sure. On a french type roll she places several hunks of just-fried chicken, tops it with a generous heap of spicy non-mayonnaise slaw, adds the top half of bread and that's it. Frequently she sells out by noon. Before I went gaga over this sandwich I had never heard or thought about a fried chicken sandwich. I'm guessing there are plenty of you who have, though!

←

I fry boneless, skinless chicken quite often. Lightly pound, then I soak them for about an hour in buttermilk with tabasco, then coat it in a spiced flour and shallow fry until done, turning once. Works just fine!

Chicken tenders are technically the little flap of chicken on the backs of chicken breasts, but have come to mean chicken breasts cut into strips for "chicken fingers".

I use either peanut oil or vegetable oil, depending on what I have handy.

[jsmeeker]

I love fried chicken. Started to make it at home after watching an episode of "Good Eats".

Chicken was cut into thighs and legs. Wings were removed, but weren't cooked (saved for the stock pot). His method also involved removing the breast meat from the caracass to yield two boneless breasts. Gives you a carcass to make stock, plus you get pieces that have no bone (some people don't like meat with a bone in it)

Soak pieces in buttermilk overnight. A poultry season is made with salt, paprika, and cayenne pepper (I think that's all that is in there). Drain pieces. Shake on poultry seasoning. The dredge in flour. Shallow pan fry it (cast iron skillet). Crisco is used for the fat.

This has become my normal, standard method. A got a copy of Cook's Country in the mail for free one day. It had a fried chicken recipe. It called for a simple brine (maybe an hour). When it was fried, it was done in a taller pot (I used my LeCrueset) that was covered during a portion of the cooking time. Also, peanut oil was called for in that recipe. This works out well, too.

I've done some mixing up of the two, as well. Soak in butter milk, poultry shake, dredge like Alton's, but then cook it like "Cooks". I've also experimented with a double dredge. Pesonally, I think the double dregde version had too much coating. It yielded a very thick, hard shell. Still good. But just maybe a bit too much.

I need to experiment more with getting more spice into my chicken. I LOVE Popeye's chicken and would really like to get something close to that. I think the next step is to add some hot sauce to the buttermilk soak. And to crak up the spice in the poultry shake.

[Toliver]

←

The amount of oil in that skillet scares me. I've always gone by the rule that your oil should never come up the side of the pan more than half way to help reduce the risk of it boiling up and over.

It looks like that chicken leg is floating. Or is that an illusion?

[kbjesq]

I need to experiment more with getting more spice into my chicken. I LOVE Popeye's chicken and would really like to get something close to that.  I think the next step is to add some hot sauce to the buttermilk soak. And to crak up the spice in the poultry shake.

←

I think that you will be pleasantly surprised by the flavor imparted if you use a generous amount of hot sauce in the buttermilk and a good, long soak (24 hours is perfect). For example, I use one whole bottle of Crystal, Frank's Red Hot, or Louisiana (whatever's in the house) per quart of buttermilk. With all of that flavor going on, I find that I don't need anything more than salt and lots of freshly, coarsely ground black pepper in AP flour for the dredging.

I, too, have made Alton's recipe with success. When I can bring myself to buy and use Crisco, it does make a very good fried chicken. (I live in a small town, and I'm always afraid that I'm going to see someone that I know when I'm at the checkout with 20 lbs of Crisco! )

[demiglace]

Thanks kbjesq..that means a lot

Toliver..it was ok..maybe just a bit too much oil..it was half way up when started and I never left its side. I made sure not to overcrowd the pan..I'll try less next time. The leg wasn't floating..just an illusion

Thanks for the imput David Ross.

[Special K]

I watched Tyler Florence cook his Ultimate Fried Chicken Saturday morning and had to try it, with a few twists of my own (which I hope makes this OK to post). I brined the chicken for about half an hour, and then dipped it in buttermilk laced with hot sauce, then coated it with seasoned flour (paprika, chili powder, cayenne powder - I left out his onion and garlic flours), then *back* into the buttermilk, and then back into the seasoned flour. Then it sat while the oil (he uses peanut, I used corn) temp came up to 375 degrees (the temp will go down to 350 once the chicken goes in) about 3 1/2 inches deep in a stock pot (yep, it's deep-fried.) The oil was flavored with aromatics (I used a cut-up onion, a couple of cloves of garlic, and a handful of rosemary). Out came the aromatics (TF garnishes the chicken platter with them, but I thought they'd given their all so I gave them a decent burial in the garbage) and the chicken went in in batches. Then it drained on a paper bag while the subsequent batches cooked up. All I had was boneless, skinless thighs, which didn't take very long (about 8 - 9 minutes a batch) and were so good and easy to eat that I think I'm going to stick to using them.

Just about the only similarity to my usual method of frying chicken (which I thought was authentic, given that I am Deep-South born and raised) is the paper bag!! I used to soak the chicken overnight in the buttermilk, coat in egg and seasoned flour (one dip in each), and fry it in a cast iron skillet, turning a few times. This was way less work with *much* better results (sorry, Mom)! It was wonderful hot, and - the "ultimate" test for me - perfect this morning (yep, we had it for breakfast). Crisp crust, not at all greasy, tender, flavorful meat . . . mmmmmmm!

I'm converted. Also, I guess I need that cookbook. (I had a lot of fun earlier, reading the "Tyler's Ultimate TV show" thread from '03. I think the show I watched was new - he's in that lovely green basement kitchen - no wimminfolk around at all )

Next time I'll take pictures - If I'm fast enough!

K

[jsmeeker]

Here is my most recent batch of fried chicken.

Soaked in buttermilk and hot sauce over night (used Frank's). Out of the buttermilk, and then splinked with a poultry seasoning shake I make and keep on hand. Them coated in flour (used a paper bag this time instead of a food storage container for shaking). Let rest for a very brief period as the oil (peanut) came up to the final temp in the the skillet. Into the skillet skin side down. Then flipped. That's it. Then, they were plated up and served with some mashed potatoes and green beans

[dockhl]

Geez, that looks good ! Were your potatoes really that yellow? Yukon Golds?

[jsmeeker]

Geez, that looks good ! Were your potatoes really that yellow? Yukon Golds?

←

yeah.. Yukon Golds. I normally use russets, but this time just decided to use the yukons instead. A bit of butter in there helped out the color, too.

[ChefCrash]

We made Popeye's Chicken.

Chicken marinating in lots of Cajun spices.

Chicken went into flour/water batter on the left, then into plain flour on the right.

The result

[kbjesq]

We made Popeye's Chicken.

The result

←

Whoa, that looks fantastic! Did you deep fry or pan fry, and what temp was your oil? Also, what kind of chicken pieces did you use?

[jsmeeker]

I love Popeye's chicken and that's my "target" for making fried chicken at home when it comes to the flavor and spice level. What exactly are you using for "cajun spices".

[CaliPoutine]

*sigh* I just can't seem to get fried chicken down. It never comes out right.

Robin has finally said " you dont have to bother making this anymore". Sad eh!!!

[ChefCrash]

These were chicken wings, deep fried, 8 pieces at a time in 1.5 qts corn oil in a 9.5" wide pot for about 10 minutes. Starting temperature 375*.

I have yet to find a way to deep fry whole chicken pieces without poaching them first so they wouldn't turn too dark in the fryer.

jsmeeker

You can buy cajun seasoning (sometimes labeled as Blackening) such as Zaatarain's.

I find those loaded with salt.

This is my last recipe:

2 T Spanish Paprika

1 tsp dried Oregano

1 tsp ground Thyme

1 tsp Cayenne

1 tsp Black Pepper

1/2 tsp granulated Garlic

I like to add salt separately.

[kbjesq]

I have yet to find a way to deep fry whole chicken pieces without poaching them first so they wouldn't turn too dark in the fryer.

←

Chefcrash, I seem to recall something on this topic on an episode of "Good Eats". AB suggested that over-browning results from too much seasoning in the flour, yolk in the egg wash (if you use egg wash), or from the type of oil. He recommended solid shortening for optimum results. I tried his method one time using Crisco and I would have to agree that it does work, i.e., you can cook rather large pieces without over-browning by the time they are done.

Now I've got to go and find me some fried chicken, this thread is really making me very hungry.

PS Thanks for the wings info!

[Sher.eats]

Hi all, got challenged by my sister to make the 'perfect fried chicken', I have these optimum seeking questions which need your help answering...

Chicken:

Size/Age - younger the more tender but the older the more flavor

Free Range vs Cage - Free range ones have great flavour but the leg meats have more collogen that needs breaking down, cage chicken's meat are more tender but have blobs of yellow fat throughout the thigh.

Skin? - since the chicken will have a buttermilk/flour crust, the skin won't be crispy and the oil not "fried out", does it add any flavor or "protect" the meat to justify its oil content?

Bone-removed? - removing the bone will allow faster cooking making it easier to balance the colour of crust vs doneness of the chicken, but will removing the bone make the thigh/drumstick loose its structure and "loosen" during frying?

'trimming the end'? - if the bottom of the drumstick (where the feet attaches) is cut off, when its cooked the meat will "shrink" upwards. Is the presentation nicer shrinked w bone revealing nicer or not, also how does allowing the muscles to shrink affect the tenderness . also will the change of shape break the batter crust?

Cooking:

Sous-vide? - If the pieces is already cooked till tendon-breakdown temperature, and rested back to room temp to allow the collagen to jelly-up, when frying only the colour of the crust is a variable, no under cooking. But will the time to crunch the crust be more than heating the chicken to >70C, i.e. to brown the crust the chicken will be overheated?

Resting? After frying how long to rest the pieces before serving, what's the constrains? Lowering the surface temp from 300F to 100F to not burn the tongue, allowing more moisture to evaporate to further crisp the crust? Allowing the "steam" built up in the meat to cool down to moisture for better texture? How to balance these factors?

Many of these factors are related, a relative older chicken (+ flavour - tender) but brine then sous vide (+ flavour + tender), not remove bone (no fear of undercooking) but keep skin (prevent overcooking) vs spring chicken (-flavour + tender), bone off, skin off, brine? If sous vided the frying time can't be too long so the crust can't be too thick, so the latter solution has another plus?

any ideas?

thanks!!

[JimH]

All I can say is that fried chicken without the skin is just plain wrong, it would be like beer without carbonation.

[Lilija]

I have not much to add, besides this:

If you take the skin and bone off of fried chicken, you are left with a stunted, flavorless chunk which most people think of as a nugget. Which doesn't even count when referring to fried chicken.

There's a cook off about fried chicken around here somewhere, if you do a search and read through it, you can gain tons of tried and true wisdom for your quest for the perfect fried chicken.

[KennethT]

I've found that a great fried chicken comes out if you cook it sous-vide first - without the breading of course.... I've tried with and without the buttermilk soak, then cook to 140F (hold for an extra 40 min or so once core temp is reached to pasteurize) then shock in an ice bath and keep in the refrig... will keep in the vacuum bag for up to a week with no problems (potentially even longer, but I've never tried it - but certainly up to 6 days with no fear of botulism)... I find that you don't need to cook extra long time to tenderize unless you're using a rooster haha... I find almost any chicken cooked to 140 (the dark meat is still slightly rare - but safe) is tender and juicy.

When ready to serve, remove from the bag, do the whole dredging, etc. and fry (I've found 375-380 works pretty good) until golden... since the chicken is starting from 34-37 degrees (I keep my refrig. cold), it comes out perfectly cooked and juicy while the coating is crisp.

If you try it, let me know how it works out!

Ken

[Sher.eats]

JimH & Lilija - When the skin is directly heated (roasted, pan fried) it 1) traps moisture released by the meat, 2) releases fat to further 'moister' the meat, 3) diffuses the heat into the meat evenly and 4) becomes thin crispy and not fatty at the end. But when coated in rather thick flour crust, does those benefits still stand? It would still trap moister from the meat (chicken is brined so it would have high water content) and stop the crust going soggy. But since the chicken is brined the fat released by the skin (if any) is not needed. The batter already diffuses the heat so skin also not needed, lastly the skin will not be thin and crispy and not fatty...

so Keep crust crispy by having meat separated w crust + (if sous vided)allow crust to go brown without overheating meat vs (if fried raw) increased cooking time maybe crust over browned + "unrendered" fat tissue...

As for the bone, similar conflicting goals, bone on more flavour and shape, good if sous vided, boneless is good if not sous vided?

If I do debone the pieces, could I make a jus from the bones then add it to the brine so less flavour wastage?...

KennethT - 140F is 60C, isn't that lower than both the red meat cooking temp and the tendon-breaking temp? do you prefer 60C vs 73C? haha

i have 2 new questions

Brine vs Buttermilk soak - Brine improves chicken flavour, tenderizes meat and increases moisture. Is further buttermilk soak needed if using a buttermilk dredge?

Oil frying temp - If my flour mixture has all purpose flour, garlic powder, onion powder, cayenne pepper and buttermilk, whats the range of browning temperatures? Say (random guess) the flour browns at 170C and the milk proteins at 140C should the oil be 140C or 170C?.....

THANKS EVERYONE! haha