Moroccan Tagine Cooking

[Adam Balic]

Yah, I know what you mean. What I might do next time is to add some of the spices after the pressure cooking as I reckon something is lost during the process (he says waving his hands about).

Lets see ~1 hour total cooking time for a dish that I was 80% happy with. If I had made a fish tagine I could have made it in a "traditional" manner in the same amount of time and got a dish I was much more happy with (no that I have ever been happy with anything I have cooked).

Still I now have the option of been lazy and not planning a meal, rather then getting up and catching a bus for 15-20 minutes to the fish-monger then walking an extra 30 minutes to work. Damn my standards are slipping in old age.

[rancho_gordo]

Pressure cooking is fast but doing it well isn't that easy. One trick I learned from Deborah Madison is to cook beans (unsoaked) for 20 minutes and then do a release and finish them in the open for another 20 minutes or so. You can cook them at a higher heat to burn off some of the liquid, if needed. Also, the food doesn't have that pressure cooker taste: fully cooked but not fully developed. I'm thinking you could add this theory to cuts of meat as well. Cook them under pressure until almost done, release, add vegetables and flavors and then simmer stovetop until complete.

In the case of beans, you still have beans in under an hour without planning.

I like the pressure cooker but find it really changes the texture of some things. Being on a clay pot kick, I haven't used mine for a year.

[Adam Balic]

Don't get me wrong, I love the pressure cooker (is there a thread on this I wonder). It is very interesting to see how it works and find its limits. I have been making chicken stock in it, one day with a supermarket organic free-range blah blah chicken that cost £8 and the next day using an old cock from the Chinese grocer (£3). The former was reduced to a pulp, whereas the old cock was still tough as buggery. Good stock but.

I haven't tried it yet, but the advise from the manufacturer say pre-soaked beans can be cooked in 20 minutes..... We shall see.

[chefzadi]

if conserving electricity/fuel is not an issue, I think a crock pot is really a better way to go for "convenience" for some dishes.

You can start it in the morning and have it ready for dinner. Or the night before, then put it in the frigo, re-heat for dinner. Some dishes even taste better this way. Again it depends on the dish and contect. I made "steamed" chicken in a crock pot, by laying the chicken pieces on a bed of vegetables with just a little liquid and the results were very good. The chicken retained it's shape but was falling off the bone tender without well falling off the bone. It looked nice for presentation purposes as well.

My own feeling at a certain point with "short cuts" or "convenience" techniques is that once they go too far in taking away from the flavor save the preparation for the weekend, make something else like a fish tagine for instance.

[Rafe]

I have a question about unglazed tagines. I have been told that unglazed will produce better and more authentic results, but you have to use an unglazed tagine frequently, or they will go "bad." Could I please get comments about the accuracy of any and all of this.

Thanks

[Wolfert]

I have heard the same thing. I was told if you don't use your unglazed tagine often you should soak the two parts in a bath of water with plenty of baking soda to remove any off smells and any possible mold.

[k43]

Well, what do you know.  We seem to be part of a fad, or perhaps eGullet is more a trendsetter than I'd realized. Crate & Barrel now offers a new, improved  tagine made from French Burgundy clay.  It says here that the glaze is "exceptionally heat resistant, making it possible to cook directly over the flame", suggesting that the others can't. (How's that for marketing?  )  It's dishwasher-, microwave-, oven- and broiler-safe, too. 

First Le Creuset, now Crate & Barrel.  Who's next?

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The C&B tagine appears to be glazed inside and out. Has anyone bought or seen one? Paula Wolfert has written about the virtues of unglazed....

[Wolfert]

A very interesting piece in today's Times by Florence Fabricant on comparing some of the new tagines versus a traditional unglazed one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/29/dining/29kitc.html

She is absolutely correct that you need far less liquid when preparing a tagine in an unglazed pot.

[Blanche Davidian]

The latest issue of Cook's Illustrated has a recipe for Moroccan Chicken with a little side article that addresses tagines. Their conclusion was that a dutch oven was fine/better than a tagine for producing a long-simmered stew.

[Richard Kilgore]

A very interesting piece in today's Times by Florence Fabricant on comparing some of the new tagines versus a traditional unglazed one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/29/dining/29kitc.html

She is absolutely correct that you need far less liquid when preparing a tagine in an unglazed pot.

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From the article:

Perhaps it was the use over time that has so beautifully seasoned my Moroccan tagine, but there was no doubt at the "dinner of the four tagines," as my husband called it, that the results in my old-fashioned pottery one had far more intensity and richness than the others. Each produced chicken that was nicely moist and flavorful. But the sauce from my humble tagine was the best. It even had a somewhat deeper color.

[Adam Balic]

Even with my glazed tagine, I don't actually add any liquid to lamb dishes. With chicken a tiny amount has to be added.

I'm not sure of the point of comparing a tagine to a Dutch oven, they produce such different results.

The problem with these debates is that you look like an appologist for whatever cause you support. I have gone to some effor to buy various ethnic earthenware 'stewing' pots and own several Dutch ovens. The thing is that they produce different results. So I could not use my straight sided earthenware daube to produce the same result as the tagine (they require different amounts of liquid) or visa versa, the Dutch oven is an excellent allround cooking vessel and the one I use the most, but it requires more liquid top up. When I was in Morocco I observed people making 'taigine' in a whole range of vessels, ranging from traditional terracotta to aluminium cooking pots to pressure cookers. There is nothing wrong or 'in-authentic' about using different vessels to produce the same dish, but the result will be different.

However, I still find this requirement to find 'the best' to be deeply depressing and quite frankly misses the point in many cases. "Stew" covers such a wide description of cooking techniques, that it is almost useless as a precise term. What were they trying to achieve other then a test of their personal preferences based on a subjective tasting?

[Abra]

In looking for a tagine here, I find it hard to know which one to buy. Any preferences among those of you that already have one or another?

[Wolfert]

The riffi and the souss tagines are personal favorites.

[andiesenji]

The riffi and the souss tagines are personal favorites.

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I agree and I give a slight edge to the larger Rifi because it holds enough to serve 6-8 people.

When I combine chicken with vegetables I never have to add any liquid. The ingredients start out "dry" and by the time the cooking is done, they are swimming in liquid. I posted a photo on another thread which shows this.

[Anna N]

I THINK I am finally getting it! It is the unglazed surface of the tagine that makes all the difference! It would absorb excess liquid rather than let it drip back into the ingredients. At least that is what I get from the linked article. Having said that, I simply cannot spare storage space for one.

It still puzzles me that my clay baker can withstand oven temperature of 450F (after a long soak in water) but cannot be used on the stove top and the tagine which can be used on the stove top but will only withstand oven temps up to 350F - ah the mystery of clay.

[Wolfert]

This is what I think is the difference :

The tagine is used for simmering meat, poultry, and vegetables to incredible tenderness with very little liquid. The conical top with its porous interior remains cool and recycles the slow producing steam from the contents below.

The baker, on the other hand, is soaked for 15 minutes before each use. It is great for baking bread, roasting chicken and meat. The special quality of romertopf cooking comes from water stored in the pores of the pot, which is slowly released during baking, resulting in tender, moist food. Browning develops after the moisture is 'used up,"

[Abra]

I'm ordering the rifi, because it's so cute and funny-looking, and because bigger is better. 12-16 weeks is a long time to wait, but hey, I've waited all my life so far.

I'm with Anna on the oven/stovetop confusion, and eagerly await any light that might be shed on that. But I never soak my clay stuff in water, just to add to the morass of inconsistencies.

Edited March 29, 2006 by Abra (log)

[Smithy]

I'm ordering the rifi, because it's so cute and funny-looking, and because bigger is better.  12-16 weeks is a long time to wait, but hey, I've waited all my life so far.

I'm with Anna on the oven/stovetop confusion, and eagerly await any light that might be shed on that.  But I never soak my clay stuff in water, just to add to the morass of inconsistencies.

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You may not have to wait so long for your rifi. Mine, and Fifi's, both were supposed to be that long but they only took a week.

Speaking of Fifi: I've been hoping Madame Materials Scientist would make an appearance here to shed light on the oven/stovetop confusion. I guess I'll have to start this.

Three determining factors for whether something can go on the stovetop include:

* how much it expands when heated (thermal expansion),

* how fast it transmits heat (thermal conduction), and

* how intense and localized (okay, maybe that's 4 factors) the heat source is.

If you have something that expands quickly when heated, but doesn't conduct heat well, then it won't do well on the stovetop with high heat. Why not? Because the stove flame (or coil) will heat a small area of the pot - maybe the entire bottom but not the rim, or maybe just a small portion of the bottom - too quickly for the rest of the pot to keep up. The heated portion will expand, but it won't do a good job of transmitting the heat to the adjoining clay on the sides so that clay will start to heat too. If the heat is too intense then the heated portion will expand too quickly; the unheated portion will still be cool and not expanding, and you'll get a crack. (This could also happen, by the way, with a thick pot that heats up too quickly on the outside for the inside to keep up.) How do you get around that? Lower the heat source so that the pot can heat up fairly uniformly, or else put the pot in the oven so the whole thing gets even heating.

Pots that transmit heat quickly - good conductors - will be less prone to cracking on the stovetop because the heat at the base will be transmitted quickly to the unheated sides. Corning Ware is a good example.

I've been surprised at the things I can cook on the stovetop, now that I've started playing with this concept. I've risked a ceramic casserole dish that is emphatically not intended for stovetop, and it's done just fine. Still, I'm cautious with the idea: can you imagine the mess I'll have if a stew pot ever cracks on the stove? Yow!

The other thing to remember about clay pots is that the reverse - localized quick cooling - can be just as disastrous as localized high heat. Add liquids slowly. Don't add cold liquid to a hot pan. I heat my liquid somewhat (what little I seem to need), and I add it at first by pouring it slowly onto something else in the pot (meat, for instance). It warms slightly as it dribbles through the meat down onto the pot, and then as I add more the entire pot bottom cools, more or less evenly.

Does that help?

[Anna N]

I'm ordering the rifi, because it's so cute and funny-looking, and because bigger is better.  12-16 weeks is a long time to wait, but hey, I've waited all my life so far.

I'm with Anna on the oven/stovetop confusion, and eagerly await any light that might be shed on that.  But I never soak my clay stuff in water, just to add to the morass of inconsistencies.

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...

Does that help?

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Thank you. It helps somewhat but since we are discussing two vessels both made of the same (similar?) material - unglazed clay - only somewhat.

[Smithy]

I can see why it would only be somewhat helpful. I'll add some questions for you to answer. First: how much bigger than your burner is your clay baker? If it's a small baker - the same size as the burner - then you might be able to use it over low heat. However, if its sides are tall relative to the base, then they might not warm up fast enough to prevent cracking. If the baker is oblong and parts of it would overhang the burner, that could also cause uneven heating with consequent cracking. Second: I don't recall reading a temperature restriction on the rifi tagine in the oven, although I know the cone isn't supposed to go into the oven. Are you sure the pot part of the tagine can't go into the oven at high temperatures? I think I've done that with mine.

Finally, I should note that not all clays are the same - even if they're unglazed. My Egyptian clay pots are much more porous than, say, a terra cotta planter. Somewhere in one of these clay pot threads Paula Wolfert reported that the pottery cure of coating a pot with molasses and cooking it didn't work on terra cotta planters because their pores were too fine. However, the molasses coat is the only curing method I heard (until recently) for Egyptian clay cooking pots. In other words, different clays will have different heat conduction and expansion behaviors. Sorry if the Corning Ware seemed extraneous.

[peanutgirl]

Thanks for bumping this up .

I just had to order a large tagra and an Ourika Tagine to go along with the rifi I already have. Plus I made 2 jars of preserved lemons this morning !

Question about the lemons:

I did one jar the 30 day recipe... and one 7 day. My question is how long will the 7 day method stay usable ? They won't last as long as the 30 day ones (right?) , but why? After all, they are both lemons, juice and salt. What makes them more, um, perishable?

[Wolfert]

Thanks for bumping this up  .

I  just had to order a large tagra and an Ourika Tagine to go along with the rifi I already have. Plus I made 2 jars of preserved lemons this morning !

Question about the lemons:

I did one jar the 30 day recipe... and one 7 day. My question is how long will the 7 day method stay usable ? They won't last as long as the 30 day ones (right?) , but why? After all, they are both lemons, juice and salt. What makes them more, um, perishable?

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The seven day lemons are cooked. If you try to store them longer than a week they will rot.

[peanutgirl]

Paula,

Thanks for the response. Could you please explain to me how the 7 day preserved lemons are cooked? I followed the recipe in SMK on pg.303. Sliced the lemons, did the salt and juice and they are now sitting at room temp. Did I miss something???

Edited March 31, 2006 by peanutgirl (log)

[Wolfert]

I'm ordering the rifi, because it's so cute and funny-looking, and because bigger is better.  12-16 weeks is a long time to wait, but hey, I've waited all my life so far.

I'm with Anna on the oven/stovetop confusion, and eagerly await any light that might be shed on that.  But I never soak my clay stuff in water, just to add to the morass of inconsistencies.

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Perhaps the following will help:

1. The unglazed baker aka romertopfs is never used on top of the stove. It is always soaked before using.

2. Chinese sandpots and South American black pots can be used on top of the stove or in the oven. They need only to be soaked once----before first time use..

3. Unglazed Moroccan tagines, Turkish comleks, and Egyptian briams are all treated to an oil rub and a slow bake in the oven before first time use.Adding molasses, ash or honey is, in my opinion, cosmetic. Moroccan tagines are traditionally used directly over heat. Turkish comleks and Egyptian briams are used in the oven.

Edited March 31, 2006 by Wolfert (log)

[Richard Kilgore]

I'm ordering the rifi, because it's so cute and funny-looking, and because bigger is better.  12-16 weeks is a long time to wait, but hey, I've waited all my life so far.

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I suggest waiting even a little longer...long enough to do the oil and ash aging treatment that Paula recommends. My rifi now looks like a 25- 50 year old pot. (I think there's a photo on this thread somewhere.)