Waiters kneeling down at the table

[Pan]

I don't think touching customers is a New York thing, but I had a West Indian waitress yesterday who called me "Darlin'," (as in "Have you decided on your order, Darlin'?", "How is everything, Darlin'?") and I thought that was very nice.

[Hest88]

Oh yeah, NO TOUCHING! Nullo, I just can't stand it when people initiate contact without my consent.

[jgm]

I'm not crazy about kneeling waiters. However here are a couple of reasons why the guy may be doing it:

1. Habit. Perhaps a previous restaurant at which he worked had large, low-hanging lamps over the tables, and if he didn't kneel, he had a hard time seeing customers' faces and hearing their orders. I can think of a couple of restaurants we go to where it's just plain necessary for waitstaff to kneel. But if they're doing it to appear friendly and approachable, forget it. As a customer, I want my order to be right. But I don't need for the waiter to become my new best friend.

2. I don't know how to put this. If a waitperson must lean over for a significant period of time, to hear the customer's order, that means his or her rear end may be ummmmmm, too prominently displayed in the view of another diner, depending on how close together the tables are placed. I'm not crazy about kneeling waiters, but I'm even less crazy about looking up from my plate and somebody's butt is the most prominent thing within my field of vision. If it's just for a second or two, I don't care, but if for some reason it's a bit longer than that, I'd rather the waiter would kneel.

I think you should just tell him that you don't think kneeling is appropriate in your restaurant. It's an informal action that just doesn't work well in some places. The waiter can keep his tips up by getting it right.

[jglazer75]

I find it really interesting to see how so many of you here so vehemently opposed to the contact, is there a particular reason for that?  I've never known it to be a big deal, and in the case of a waitress with male diners, or a waiter with female, amongst many people I associate with, friends, peers, etc, it seems to even be encouraged ... There is a delightful little (well, pretty big actually) diner in West Hollywood called The French Quarter.  Almost all of the waitstaff there are gay men, and if you go in as a man, they have a delightful habit of fawning over you and placing hands along your neck or back as they take orders/bring drinks, etc. 

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Californians are WEIRD. Try this in Chicago or New York. I dare you. Even in Boy's Town you're likely to get your hand ripped off.

[nwyles]

This habit is called "Biffing"

It is a dated thing that I have seen from waiters from a rural setting. It is from the 70's

Here is the set up

Big cheesy moustache , shirt open revealing gold chain etc - you know the type. and the intro line goes like this while down on one knee

" Hi, I'm Biff and I will be your waiter tonight ! "

Just tell them it is a dated habit and although you are fine with them doing it, people are laughing behind your back. That should take care of that !

[Dani Mc]

My very first job waiting tables was in a chain restaurant. We were told to kneel. I wouldn't do it. I think its condescending. As for touching...I didn't put up with that shit from customers, I'd expect them to feel the same.

And if you draw a happy face on my check, I'll vomit.

*edited to put the apostrophe in its correct place.

Edited January 4, 2005 by Dani Mc (log)

[Neal J. Brown]

As a chef, under no cicumstances is the server to ever kneel down to get to eye level with the guest. If I ever see a server actually sit down at a table without being asked....he/she is gone!

[winegeek]

I still have to give the waiter the benefit of the doubt and consider all of the issues which might make this occur ... hearing properly, as I said, is high among the reasons in my opinion ...

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I'm a server who is hard of hearing (I now wear hearing aids, and no, I'm not old ) and I have NEVER knelt beside a table, unless I've been asked to by my guests.

[winesonoma]

If you kneel down at my table you better have a big diamond and a proposal or are you suggesting a sexual act? Baring those I will pat you on the head, scratch you under the chin and throw the tennis ball I carry.

[Daddy-A]

This habit is called "Biffing"

It is a dated thing that I have seen from waiters from a rural setting. It is from the 70's

Here is the set up

Big cheesy moustache , shirt open revealing gold chain etc - you know the type. and the intro line goes like this while down on one knee

" Hi, I'm Biff and I will be your waiter tonight ! "

Exact situation, late 70's, Keg 'n Cleaver in Kelowna, BC ... except Biff's name was Dave & his hand was on my mom's knee. Dad got up, pushed Dave and we never ate at the Keg in Kelowna again.

So, I'm against kneeling/Biffing. Too many painful memories .

A.

[Toliver]

As a chef, under no cicumstances is the server to ever kneel down to get to eye level with the guest.  If I ever see a server actually sit down at a table without being asked....he/she is gone!

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Don't go to Corvette Diner in San Diego. It's kind of like Ed Debevik's (sp?). Sometimes the waiters or waitresses will sit down with the customers as part of their "in-character schtick":

"Haul it over, honey, my dogs are barkin' and Mama needs to sit."

Or something like that...

[Jaymes]

"Biffing...."  Big cheesy moustache , shirt open revealing gold chain etc - you know the type. and the intro line goes like this while down on one knee...

Exact situation, late 70's, Keg 'n Cleaver in Kelowna, BC ... except Biff's name was Dave & his hand was on my mom's knee. Dad got up, pushed Dave and we never ate at the Keg in Kelowna again.

That's a great story. I love it. I only wish I could have been there to see Dave on his can deciding never to do that again.

Edited January 5, 2005 by Jaymes (log)

[Andrew Fenton]

If you kneel down at my table you better have a big diamond and a proposal or are you suggesting a sexual act?

"Welcome to Lewinsky's! May I take your order?"

[ScorchedPalate]

Don't go to Corvette Diner in San Diego.  It's kind of like Ed Debevik's (sp?).  Sometimes the waiters or waitresses will sit down with the customers as part of their "in-character schtick":

"Haul it over, honey, my dogs are barkin' and Mama needs to sit."

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Ed Debevic's is more of a show than a meal. If you go there, you ought to be expecting it.

~A

[vancanjay]

Luckily, there are many different types of dining establishments.

We run a casual space where servers are encouraged to be real, service oriented people who develop strong repore with their customers. Part of that may include sitting down at the table. Each customer, like each server is made to feel comfortable in varying ways. One aspect of the talented server, is being an intuitive person who knows when to sit down & hang out and knows when to be polite, informative and consise. Having one rule, for all customers, in all environments, is insane.

Maybe I feel a little opinionated right this moment...

Being both an owner and someone who serves, It annoys the hell out of me when customers have a condesending approach to the staff that serve them. If you are uncomfortable with warmer styles of communication, stick to fine dining environments or counter service where staff are more than arms length away.

The casual approach we try to take, changes the role of a "server" to more of a location specific consultant that you the customer has hired for assistance with both menu and any other timely needs you may have during your stay. The more a customer feels at home with all their needs met the better the job we have done. That being said, I still value the concept of the customer is always (almost) right.

This gets back to us all having different expectations and we should train our staff to look for the visual indicators on what type of experience the customer is looking for.

[Eden]

Oh my god!

Usually I eat in good ethnic restauraunts or the occasional higher end place & avoid chain restaurants like the plague, so I don't normally see a lot of the behaviors discussed here, but tonight I got dragged into a Chili's and we had JUST been reading this thread before we left - it was SO funny.

I honestly think "Fernando" had a check list from the article mentioned above.

Not only did HE kneel down, but the girl he was training knelt too, to the point where WE actually had to look down at THEM! We got the upsell, the head nod, the fake smile(s), the positive comment on the weather, and probably would have gotten the hand on the shoulder if I hadn't looked WAY too dangerous to touch Every time they left the table we just about burst laughing.

Thank you all. without this thread I would have just been cranky & appalled. As it was I had a highly entertaining evening in spite of the food, ambience & obsequious service.

Eden

even if I am a food princess, I still don't want the waiter to kneel before me - at least not unless everyone else is kneeling too

[Pan]

[...]

The casual approach we try to take, changes the role of a "server" to more of a location specific consultant that you the customer has hired for assistance with both menu and any other timely needs you may have during your stay.[...]

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Holy jargon, Batman! (No offense.)

Yes, on occasion, the server can assist me by telling me where the bathroom is. I guess that's location specific. I suppose there's a cultural difference here; this New Yorker cannot imagine a server sitting down at my table unless they were either coming on to me or a really close friend based on something other than my being a mere regular at a diner or something. But in any case, if they're on their shift, they're usually too busy to hang around much. Otherwise, the whole idea of this just feels violently wrong to me in an establishment other than a strip bar, where not the waitresses but the strippers could be expected to come by the table and perhaps sit down with customers -- for a fee. Waiters/waitresses have a job to do, and that job does not involve sitting at my table, touching me, or, like, showing their tits. So I'm tempted to say: You run what type of establishment?

If you get where I'm coming from.

[stephenc]

Some old curmudgeons here, I see.

I really couldn't give two shits if a waiter kneels down to eye level or taps me on the shoulder while handing me the check. Hell, by kneeling down, it reduces the strain in my neck from having to look up at him.

All I care about is whether my water gets refilled on time and my food comes out properly.

[Mark Sommelier]

I thought sitting down at the table was peculiar to Outback Steakhouse.

[Chris Amirault]

Being both an owner and someone who serves, It annoys the hell out of me when customers have a condesending approach to the staff that serve them.  If you are uncomfortable with warmer styles of communication, stick to fine dining environments or counter service where staff are more than arms length away.

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Hold on a sec -- let's don't mix apples and ball bearings.

If I come to your restaurant and I don't want you sitting at my table with me and the other people with whom I actually have a relationship, how exactly does that make me "condescening"? I'd say it's quite the opposite: you have condescended to judge me based on your sense of superiority involving your belief in "warmer styles of communication," itself a presumption with which I disagree. It seems to me that someone practicing "warmer styles of communication" would seek to make me comfortable, instead of forcing uncomfortable interactions down my throat or showing me the door.

That being said, I still value the concept of the customer is always (almost) right. 

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But not, say, when they're uncomfortable with your warm servers?

Maybe I just don't get it. What kind of establishment do you run, vancanjay?

[chezcherie]

i say, if they sit at the table, they share in splitting the bill.

[stephenc]

I thought sitting down at the table was peculiar to Outback Steakhouse.

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Yeah, I hear that's what they do in Australia

[birder53]

No touching and no kneeling. It's blatantly manipulative! No tip for you!

[stephenc]

No touching and no kneeling.  It's blatantly manipulative!  No tip for you!

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That's okay. they already spit in your food too.

[birder53]

No touching and no kneeling.  It's blatantly manipulative!  No tip for you!

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That's okay. they already spit in your food too.

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