Homemade Macaroni and Cheese: The Topic

[GordonCooks]

I add shredded carrots, onion, celery, & a hint of garlic & nutmeg to my white sauce and...toasted & lightly buttered bread crumbs & parmesan (roughly 1:1) to the mix.

...I should just take advantage of some culinary re-location act and move to the mid-west?

Sounds to me like you've turned the glorious, but simple and humble, mac & cheese into some sort of fancy-ass midwestern casserole.

Indeed, a relocation to Ohio might be in order. Perhaps there is a culinary witness protection program to which you can apply.

←

I agree ( I can hear General Lee rolling over in his grave) - vegetables have no place in good ole' Mac & Cheese

[takomabaker]

2 cents from another Florida Cracker (7th Generation):

Crackers: The term "Cracker," while now more widely known as a derogatory term for rural whites, has a more specific--and less insulting--definition in Florida. The Florida Crackers are whites of Celtic descent who first settled South Florida around the mid-eighteenth century. Crackers usually migrated to the Florida Everglades from Alabama, Georgia, and the Carolinas, drawn to the fertile land for ranching and farming, and to the peninsula's plentiful resources for fishing.

And in my grandmother's house, macaroni and cheese is melted Velveeta and cheap macaroni (no semolina in there) topped with shredded cheddar cheese and baked.

[Jaymes]

...the bread crumbs (sometimes replaced by saltine crumbs) were put on top of the casserole to absorb the excess oils from the butter.

...southerners topping m&c with bread dust to "absorb excess oils from the butter" is akin to research showing mint leaves were applied to juleps to absorb excess bourbon.

Jess - have I told you lately that I love you?

[maggiethecat]

...the bread crumbs (sometimes replaced by saltine crumbs) were put on top of the casserole to absorb the excess oils from the butter.

...southerners topping m&c with bread dust to "absorb excess oils from the butter" is akin to research showing mint leaves were applied to juleps to absorb excess bourbon.

Jess - have I told you lately that I love you?

←

Have I told both of you recently that I love you?

That said, I am a proponent of fancy-ass Midwestern mac and cheese. In my recent travels south of the Mason-Dixon I have been severely underwhelmed by what is one of my top ten favourite foods. Orange, heavy and thick. And, as I snarfed every bite, I wondered why it seems bland and dull. Yes, dull. Martha Stewart does it better.

I am not only a Yankee, but a Canadian, so probably I shouldn't even be addressing this topic. And yes, maybe I haven't eaten the best m and c the Southland has to offer. But I say: bring on the white cheddar from the Northland, the crispy cracker layer, and the sauciness; I like the crispy/saucy contrast

I will soon be entering the witness protection program. I know this is heresy.

[Jaymes]

Well, hell, as most folks could probably guess from looking at me, I'll have to fess up...

The truth is...I like it all.

[browniebaker]

I don't know whether it's because I grew up in the South, and I know the breadcrumb-proponents will get me for this, but if I bite down on anything crunchy that interferes with the pure creaminess of my mac and cheese, I may as well be biting on fingernail clippings.

edit: typo

Edited March 11, 2005 by browniebaker (log)

[Toliver]

I am not only a Yankee, but a Canadian, so probably I shouldn't even be addressing this topic.

←

Are you, at least, a southern Canandian?

[M. Lucia]

My intial thought was that, of course, mac and cheese has breadcrumbs. In my house that crispy crunchy topping was always the most coveted part. However, when I consulted with my (Tennesseean) mom, she said that when she said that in her experience traditional southern mac and cheese did not have breadcrumbs. It was something she picked up while in Baltimore (shhh).

Now that I think about it, most of my southern mac and cheese memories involve a homogenous creamy concoction, breadcrumb free. Of course, a lot of these memories involve southern restaurants and cafeterias where the mac and cheese may have been made in big quantities (which I enjoyed as part of a veggie combo plate involving collards and glazed carrots and cornbread).

Eitherway, my southern family, when making mac and cheese at home, loves us some buttery crumbs.

[Jennifer Brizzi]

My Arkansawyer mother made macaroni and cheese with shell pasta, grated cheddar and milk rather than white sauce, some sautéed onions, dried mustard, and cayenne, with fresh whole wheat breadcrumbs and butter on top. I do not know if this was an Arkansas thing or her own embellishments, but I do know that it was damn good. When she made it I would sit at the table long after everyone else had left, having thirds, and fourths, and ...

One of the best versions I ever had was in Barbados. It was called macaroni pie and I think it had a little ketchup in it.

Suffice it to say, it is one of my most favorite dishes and when my lactose-intolerant husband is out of town, I make some and pig out.

[phaelon56]

My dad's mother, who was hardly known for her cooking (apart from her excellent baked beans) always baked it not only with bread crumbs on top but with a small peeled white or yellow onion baked in the center. We're talking Northeastern US so it's hardly applicable but some friends I have up here in NY state who are from southern families or spent time their during their youth have an interesting twist.

It won't rest easily with many but they have a practice of adding a packet of the yellow powder cheese sauce mix from Kraft Mac ' n Cheese into the bechamel sauce and grated cheddar. I'll have to admit - it does give a certain tang and a burst of yellow color that is often missing on some preparations of this dish.

If you ever go to a church supper or a potluck where soul food is being served and there's a mac 'n cheese that's very yellow and has lots of tang - that might be how it got that way. It also adds a significant measure of economy to the dish as it keeps the cheesy aspect but allows one to reduce the amount of cheddar.

[Kevin Weeks]

"I do not like your macaroni & cheese.  You put bread crumbs in yours and no self-respecting Southerner would ever put bread crumbs in their macaroni & cheese" she huffed.

←

I've had it with bread crumbs, saltines and Ritz crackers, French's fried onions, and potato chips, but it's getting damned hard to find a properly baked mac-n-cheese anywhere.

Personally, I prefer adding extra cheese to the top where it browns and get's crusty. I have one other innovation, as well. I grease the casserole with Crisco and then dust it (as for a cake or souffle) with finely ground parmesan. This creates a wonderfully crisp crust all around the dish -- and makes cleanup a tad easier.

[Kevin Weeks]

Suffice it to say, it is one of my most favorite dishes and when my lactose-intolerant husband is out of town, I make some and pig out.

←

According to Harold McGee most people who are lactose intolerant can nevertheless consume up to a cup of milk a day (there's much less than that in a serving) without problems and cheese is almost completely lactose-free. If you used milk treated with Aspergillus (the enzme that breaks down lactose) your husband could eat it without any worries and you wouldn't have to eat an entire casserole of mac-n-cheese by yourself... Oh... Never mind.

Kevin

[Brad Ballinger]

When looking at recipes for macaroni and cheese, and many egg dishes that are baked (such as a strata), more often than not mustard is called for either in wet or dry form.

Why?

Does it impart a flavor that just cannot be left out of these dishes? Is there another reason.

I'm not a big fan of mustard. I'll eat it to be polite. I'm fine with it in salad dressing. If I have to, I can do brown, Dijon, or creole over the yucky prepared stuff. But why, oh why, is it an ingredient in so many of these recipes?

[Really Nice!]

Perhaps to act as a foil against the rich cheese. Mustard has a tanginess that can help add breadth or dimension to a dish. This is another reason (besides taste) as to why it goes so well with charcuterie or braised rabbit, for example; it cuts into the richness of the dish.

[joey madison]

I've also heard that in egg dishes or oil applicaitons (like salad dressing) that the mustard in some ways aids in the emulsification process.

[andiesenji]

I've also heard that in egg dishes or oil applicaitons (like salad dressing) that the mustard in some ways aids in the emulsification process.

←

Exactly right.

It is the reason dry mustard is included in homemade mayonnaise. It helps to keep the emulsion smooth, the oil and egg in suspension so it won't separate.

In dairy/cheese dishes it keep the cheese from releasing oil.

[eje]

I'm not a big fan of mustard.  I'll eat it to be polite.  I'm fine with it in salad dressing.

←

Stick with beer or cider with mustard heavy dishes and you will be happier.

I don't know the chemistry; but, mustard is a wine destroyer. They just don't go together. Funny since vinaigrette is nothing but oil, vinegar, and mustard.

As to why dishes have mustard, remember, before the discovery of the new world, the most exciting thing you could put in your mouth was pretty much either brassicas (mustard, horseradish, etcetera) or black pepper. I think the reason for mustard in those recipes is similar to the reason for chiles. It is exciting and wakes up your taste buds. Probably it also has some sort of preservative property. Or at least covers over the taste of rot.

Anyway, you'll have to let your own taste and common sense decide; but, I don't think it's all that necessary in Macaroni and Cheese. However, I can't imagine making fish pie without colman's mustard.

[Really Nice!]

I don't know the chemistry; but, mustard is a wine destroyer.  They just don't go together.

←

Really?! How does Dijon, in the heart of Burgundy, deal with all that wine and mustard?

[Marco_Polo]

I don't know the chemistry; but, mustard is a wine destroyer.  They just don't go together.

←

Really?! How does Dijon, in the heart of Burgundy, deal with all that wine and mustard?

←

Traditionally Dijon mustard was made from finely ground mustard seed mixed with verjus - thin, acidic, unfermented grape juice. This, I imagine, would have milder than mustards today that gain their tartness from industrially produced vinegars. It's the acidic tartness that kills wine, not the heat from the mustard.

[touaregsand]

I don't know the chemistry; but, mustard is a wine destroyer.  They just don't go together.

←

Really?! How does Dijon, in the heart of Burgundy, deal with all that wine and mustard?

←

They deal with it by making mustard cream sauce which starts off with a white wine reduction.

[Khadija]

Perhaps because it's one of the first things I learned to cook, I have always been obsessed with macaroni and cheese. I have tried making it lots of different ways, some more successful than others. However, I still haven't stopped searching for the "perfect" macaroni and cheese, and I would like others' input on this topic.

As I understand, there are three basic ways to make macaroni and cheese:

1. The first, and more popular version, involves a bechamel sauce to which cheese is added (I believe this is called a "Mornay" sauce) and pasta. The pasta and cheese sauce mixture is placed in a casserole and topped with grated cheese or a crumb topping and then baked until the top forms a crust. One can also just eat the cheese sauce and pasta, without baking. I think the macaroni and cheese texture is usually perfect at this stage, but I want the crust too.

3. The second version has a "custard" base. The pasta is mixed with cheese and eggs and milk. I am less familiar with this method. I have tried a couple versions, though not recently. One, which involved evaporated milk was very tasty, but extremely heavy -- I found it difficult to eat more than a few mouthfuls without feeling sick. I have also noticed that "cafeteria" versions of macaroni and cheese sometimes seem to have what I think of as "scrambled egg residue". This is not very appealing to me.

4. The third version simply involves layering or mixing pasta and grated cheese in a casserole and baking. There might be an addition of milk and/or butter, and other seasonings. This method is not very interesting, but it is almost impossible to screw up.

I tend to follow the first method. Lately, when I make the white sauce, I heat the milk slowly with carrot, celery, onion, garlic, sometimes pear and sometimes a chili pepper. I then strain the "infused" milk into some roux, and whisk it to form the white sauce. Some people might think the pear sounds strange, but it adds a mild sweet and tangy flavour that I think goes well with cheese. I then add nutmeg and sometimes mustard to the white sauce. Then I stir in grated cheese. I usually use mainly old white cheddar and I always add some parmesan. Sometimes I reserve some of the cheese, and mix it into the noodle-cheese sauce mixture or layer it between the noodle-cheese sauce mixture. I have also tried layering mozarella (not the fresh kind) with the noodle-cheese sauce mixture, in order to produce a stringy-cheese texture. Sometimes, this has seemed like a bit much. I usually top the casserole with Panko and bits of butter. When I boil the pasta, I leave it very underdone, because I find it cooks so much in the oven. I find that when cooked to just "al dente," the pasta gets very overdone in the oven.

I tend to like the flavour of my macaroni and cheese, though I am open to suggestiongs. My main questions about macaroni and cheese are mostly related to texture. I think it is fairly common to find that white-sauce based macaroni and cheese either has a "grainy" texture. This happens to me sometimes, but not always. I am not sure that the custard version would fare better, mostly because I am afraid of either excessive heaviness or the "scrambled egg residue." I would be interested in others' input on this issue, though. Anyhow, my more focussed questions are as follows:

1. How much does the type and quality of cheese matter? I make macaroni and cheese fairly often and it seems to me to require a lot of cheese. I am a graduate student and on a limited budget, so I try not to use very expensive cheese for this dish. Am I missing out? I read somewhere that cheddar tends to separate from the sauce and the best results come from using a combination of cheddar and colby. Has anyone tried this?

2. Most macaroni and cheese recipes suggest baking the casserole for a fairly long time. I have found that in this process the pasta seems to absorb a lot of the liquid in the sauce and the remaining sauce winds up grainy. For this reason, I bake the casserole for a short period of time (10 minutes) and use the broiler to brown the top of the casserole. Does anyone else use this method? Has anyone else had the same problem?

3. I find that the pasta always absorbs a lot of the cheese sauce. I used to always wind up with "dry" and grainy macaroni and cheese because too much liquid had been absorbed in the baking process. Now, I always make what initially looks like an excessive amount of cheese sauce. After it's baked, it's usually just right. However, sometimes I over do it, and there is just too much cheese sauce. What do people find is the right ratio of cheese sauce to pasta?

I realise that I've probably written too much here. I guess I really am obsessed with macaroni and cheese.

[Viola da gamba]

I've only had the texture go wrong when I didn't have a scale handy. We've always made the bechamel version - so the proportions are pretty basic - for a dinner for 2 - equal amounts pasta & cheese (8 or 9 oz), and a sauce made with 1 tbsp flour, 1 pint milk - increase as required.

Sorry about this, but the type & quality of cheese are hugely important. We usually make a cheese sauce using a combination of 3 or 4, but if you're just using cheddar (which I've never had a problem with in terms of sauce separation, provided the proportions are right) - get the best you can afford - it really does make a difference.

Edited May 13, 2005 by Viola da gamba (log)

[divalasvegas]

Perhaps because it's one of the first things I learned to cook, I have always been obsessed with macaroni and cheese.  I have tried making it lots of different ways, some more successful than others.  However, I still haven't stopped searching for the "perfect" macaroni and cheese, and I would like others' input on this topic.

As I understand, there are three basic ways to make macaroni and cheese:

1.  The first, and more popular version, involves a bechamel sauce to which cheese is added (I believe this is called a "Mornay" sauce) and pasta.  The pasta and cheese sauce mixture is placed in a casserole and topped with grated cheese or a crumb topping and then baked until the top forms a crust.  One can also just eat the cheese sauce and pasta, without baking.  I think the macaroni and cheese texture is usually perfect at this stage, but I want the crust too.

3.  The second version has a "custard" base.  The pasta is mixed with cheese and eggs and milk.  I am less familiar with this method.  I have tried a couple versions, though not recently. One, which involved evaporated milk was very tasty, but extremely heavy -- I found it difficult to eat more than a few mouthfuls without feeling sick.  I have also noticed that "cafeteria" versions of macaroni and cheese sometimes seem to have what I think of as "scrambled egg residue".  This is not very appealing to me.

4.  The third version simply involves layering or mixing pasta and grated cheese in a casserole and baking.  There might be an addition of milk and/or butter, and other seasonings.  This method is not very interesting, but it is almost impossible to screw up.

I tend to follow the first method.  Lately, when I make the white sauce, I heat the milk slowly with carrot, celery, onion, garlic, sometimes pear and sometimes a chili pepper.  I then strain the "infused" milk into some roux, and whisk it to form the white sauce.  Some people might think the pear sounds strange, but it adds a mild sweet and tangy flavour that I think goes well with cheese.  I then add nutmeg and sometimes mustard to the white sauce.  Then I stir in grated cheese.  I usually use mainly old white cheddar and I always add some parmesan.  Sometimes I reserve some of the cheese, and mix it into the noodle-cheese sauce mixture or layer it between the noodle-cheese sauce mixture.  I have also tried layering mozarella (not the fresh kind) with the noodle-cheese sauce mixture, in order to produce a stringy-cheese texture.  Sometimes, this has seemed like a bit much.  I usually top the casserole with Panko and bits of butter.  When I boil the pasta, I leave it very underdone, because I find it cooks so much in the oven.  I find that when cooked to just "al dente," the pasta gets very overdone in the oven.

I tend to like the flavour of my macaroni and cheese, though I am open to suggestiongs.  My main questions about macaroni and cheese are mostly related to texture.  I think it is fairly common to find that white-sauce based macaroni and cheese either has a "grainy" texture.  This happens to me sometimes, but not always.  I am not sure that the custard version would fare better, mostly because I am afraid of either excessive heaviness or the "scrambled egg residue."  I would be interested in others' input on this issue, though.  Anyhow, my more focussed questions are as follows:

1.  How much does the type and quality of cheese matter?  I make macaroni and cheese fairly often and it seems to me to require a lot of cheese. I am a graduate student and on a limited budget, so I try not to use very expensive cheese for this dish.  Am I missing out?  I read somewhere that cheddar tends to separate from the sauce and the best results come from using a combination of cheddar and colby.  Has anyone tried this?

2.  Most macaroni and cheese recipes suggest baking the casserole for a fairly long time.  I have found that in this process the pasta seems to absorb a lot of the liquid in the sauce and the remaining sauce winds up grainy.  For this reason, I bake the casserole for a short period of time (10 minutes) and use the broiler to brown the top of the casserole.  Does anyone else use this method?  Has anyone else had the same problem?

3.  I find that the pasta always absorbs a lot of the cheese sauce.  I used to always wind up with "dry" and grainy macaroni and cheese because too much liquid had been absorbed in the baking process. Now, I always make what initially looks like an excessive amount of cheese sauce.  After it's baked, it's usually just right.  However, sometimes I over do it, and there is just too much cheese sauce.  What do people find is the right ratio of cheese sauce to pasta?

I realise that I've probably written too much here.  I guess I really am obsessed with macaroni and cheese.

←

Hello Khadija,

I too am pretty obsessed with macaroni and cheese. So much so that I have been trying to duplicate the dish as purchased from a little carryout--no longer there--on Dupont Circle in DC. The carryout's chef was great at making all kinds of down-home, delicious stuff: meatloaf, collard greens, bbq ribs (well, not really bbq since they were cooked in an oven) and so on. But the one thing he cooked that just blew everyone away was macaroni and cheese. If you didn't get there by 11:30, 11:45 at the latest for lunch to buy it, it was gone and he only made one huge pan of it a day. I begged him for the recipe and he would just tease me or smile. He was a really nice guy.

The cheese part of his mac and cheese was like a cross between a sauce and a custard. The pasta was essentially suspended in this divine cheesey dish. I have tried every method, included your method #1, except I beat egg yolks into the bechamel, sort of a combination of your first and second methods. Still didn't work. Like you, my final results also turn out a little grainy to me.

As for the chef, unfortunately, I went to the carryout one day for lunch and he wasn't there. I asked the kitchen crew where he was and they all looked somewhat uncomfortable. One of them finally told me that not only was he dead, but he'd been shot. A dear sweet man he was and he took that recipe, literally, to his grave.

Sorry I don't have a solution, only more questions. I just wanted you to know that you are not the only macaroni and cheese obsessed person on the planet. You see I ate this man's mac and cheese IN 1985 and have been trying to duplicate it ever since.

THAT'S OBSESSION!

[silentbob]

"Truffled macaroni and cheese" simply means adding truffle oil, right?

If so, which is better, incorporating the truffle oil as part of the bechamel/cheese mixture, or drizzling the oil at the end?

[eje]

If you don't like the texture the bechamel gives your Mac & Cheese, but still want to make from scratch, you could always use another starch to thicken your cheese sauce. Of course you'd also want to use Velveeta and maybe condensed or dry milk.

Potato, tapioca, or arrowroot starch would probably give it that gelatinous campbell's soup texture. I think corn starch would probably break in the oven.

I usually use a roux based sauce with half milk and half chicken stock. I saute any additions on the side and add them when I mix with the pasta. I agree with the upstream poster who said that many recipes call for you to bake the casserole for too long. Really, you're just giving the flavors a chance to combine and bringing to a bare simmer. Better off getting your crust quickly under the broiler.