"Chocolate Desserts" by Pierre Herme (Part 1)

[kthull]

We must all be really busy...this thread has grown quiet. I still plan on making the caramels (especially after drooling over all the great looking caramels on this thread), but haven't had the time. May not even get there until after the holidays...we'll see.

But for any of you who managed to get Herme's pro book, I'm going to attempt the pine cone cake for my Christmas Eve/Christmas day dinners. I'll try to post a pic from the book later on. I don't remember any more who gave the link for L'Epicerie but THANKS! I just ordered 3kg of Vahlrona Guanaja feves.

I'll post pics of the final cakes for sure. I'll also try to take some in-progress pics too.

[SethG]

I'm planning to make something this weekend, and I was toying with the Savarin, but then I was thinking about making something lemony from Sherry Yard instead. I could be convinced to go with Pierre, though. Anybody else?

[momlovestocook]

I made the chocolate covered caramel almonds yesterday. I also made the same recipe using peanuts and milk chocolate. It was my first attempt at tempering chocolate. I bought a digital thermometer so hopefully got the temps right for the chocolate. Whether or not the chocolate was perfectly tempered, they taste pretty good. They are Christmas presents for my dd's bus driver so hopefully she will like them(goody bag includes, hot chocolate mix, homemade marshmallows, nuts and just made some caramel popcorn).

Not sure what I'll try next. Next baking project is probably a gingerbread house to make with the kids next week.

okay, I'll try to add some pictures

First is the caramelized almonds

and then covered with chocolate

Sandra

ps we are going to two different meals for Christmas and no one wants me to bring anything-really wanted to make something from the book to WOW my relatives. May just have to make the Faubourg Pave anyway.

Edited December 16, 2004 by momlovestocook (log)

[SethG]

I made the chocolate covered caramel almonds yesterday.  I also made the same recipe using peanuts and milk chocolate... 

←

Let's see a pic, mom! (Edit: Thanks for the pics! Those look tasty.)

...  ps we are going to two different meals for Christmas and no one wants me to bring anything-really wanted to make something from the book to WOW my relatives.  May just have to make the Faubourg Pave anyway.

←

I thought about making the Pave this weekend, too, but I don't have the right loaf pan and need to mail-order it. I might do it with an 8x4 pan and have a slightly squatter Pave. What do you pastry geniuses think? Will that work okay?

Edited December 16, 2004 by SethG (log)

[Dorie Greenspan]

I'm so sorry to be so late adding my praise to that of the many others who've viewed this thread, but as they've all said, "You're amazing!" To a cookie, what you've baked has looked sensational and it's a thrill for me to see these pictures and to hear how happy you've been with Pierre's recipes.

I'm also sorry not to have come onto the thread earlier so that I could have clarified a few points at the start. Not that you really needed me -- you seem to have figured everything out correctly for yourselves.

Working under the better-late-than-never assumption, here are comments on a couple of topics you raised:

o CHOCOLATE PERCENTAGES AND CHOCOLATE CHOICES:

Pierre has preferences for certain brands of chocolate and strong ideas about what chocolates taste best in specific desserts or with particular ingredients. In order to have the recipes in CDBPH produce desserts that come as close as possible to the desserts Pierre produces in Paris, we tested the recipes with -- and specified -- the exact chocolates Pierre uses in his shop. However, the success of a recipe doesn't depend on using the precise chocolate. In fact, you might not even like the chocolate Pierre proposes. Knowing this, Pierre fully expected that home bakers would use the chocolates they liked best, the chocolates they could get and the chocolates that were most affordable. Yes, the desserts made with these chocolates won't be exactly the same as PH's, but if you get the spirit AND you get the taste you like, then all is well with the world.

A final word on chocolate (at least for this post): Just because two chocolates have the same percentage of cocoa solids doesn't mean they are the same chocolate. With chocolate, so much depends on the type of cocoa bean, its quality, drying, roasting and finishing, that just substituting one 70% chocolate for another might not give you the results you want. The best general rule is to use chocolate that has a flavor you like. After all, in most deeply chocolatey chocolate desserts, there is little to interfere with the taste of the chocolate.

o COCOA POWDER

When Albiston made the chocolate loaf with apricots and ginger the question came up about whether the cake looked paler than the cake in the book because of the cocoa. The answer is yes. Valrhona cocoa is very, very dark -- darker than most other cocoas on the market.

o THE 7 1/2-INCH LOAF PAN AND PICTURES OF SKINNY LOAVES

Seth wondered why I didn't adapt PH's recipes that use 7 1/2-inch loaf pans so they would use pans of a more usual size. If I had known it was so difficult to find that size pan I would have made an adaptation. But, because I owned pans that size and had seen them when I was working on The Cook's Catalog, I assumed they were easily findable -- sorry. In general, the hardest recipes to adapt were the loaf cakes because, as K8 noticed in the photos, French loaf pans are thinner and relatively longer than our American pans. While plain loaf cakes are among my favorite sweets, I dreaded each loaf cake that came along because of the difficulty of converting pan size and figuring out how much batter to make.

o MINI CAKES IN DESSERTS BY PIERRE HERME

KTHull said she thought the desserts photographed in DBPH looked like mini versions and, in many cases, she's right. The photographs were done in Paris and the photographer and stylist convinced the art people that the desserts would look best scaled down. And, they do look adorable. But it's a problem for the reader/baker, which is why everyone working on Chocolate was given specific instructions to keep things "real" -- and they did.

Someone said he or she would have liked to have seen all the desserts photographed whole, rather than in wedges or in production, and yet, we've had people tell us they would prefer that none of the desserts be photographed whole because they look too daunting that way. One reader even said she didn't want to see finished photographs because they cramped her decorating style.

I love the photos in the Chocolate book and I love the process by which they were done. All of the desserts were made in the photographer's studio in Paris. Whenever the photographer saw something he liked -- whether it was chocolate being poured or a tart coming off a butter-spattered baking dish -- he'd stop the action and shoot. While we chose which desserts we wanted photographed, we rarely chose how they would be shot. This was the photographer's decision and it was most often made in the heat of the kitchen when inspiration struck.

I'll be traveling in France for the next couple of weeks, so I don't know what my internet availability will be. But I will try to follow the thread and, if there are any questions you think I might be able to answer for you, I'd be happy to try.

Again -- BRAVO!!!

[Richard Kilgore]

Thanks for the clarifications, Dorie. The book is beautiful, and I am looking forward to doing a few pieces over the next month now that I have aquired most of the chocolate needed.

[SethG]

Always a treat to see you stop by, Dorie.

[FoodMan]

Ok, After reading through this thread I had to get me a copy of the Chocolate Desserts book. Just ordered it and I should have it in a few days. Hopefully I will join in the fun soon.

Elie

[lemon curd]

Wow! This is one of the neatest things about eGullet - having feedback right from the source. Thank you so much Dorie for taking the time to read and contribute.

My next project from this book is the Black Forest Cake. I'm planning to serve it mid next week. I'll likely bake the cocoa cake this weekend, freeze it, and finish the rest of the recipe on the day of 'consumption'. I just have to find a good source for the sour cherries.

I've been working from a borrowed copied of 'Chocolate Desserts' but my own copy will arrive in the mail any day now.

BTW - thanks tan319 for the Balaguer website.

Edited December 17, 2004 by lemon curd (log)

[kthull]

How cool! Thanks for the background Dorie! And thank you for bringing Pierre's work to the masses. I owe so much of what I've learned to the Desserts book and am only just starting to have fun with the Chocolate book. (And I hope Santa brings me Paris Sweets!) Enjoy your travels.

Lemon curd, I've been dying to make the Black Forest Cake. I'm at this very moment kicking myself because I was at Trader Joe's today (a long enough trip making it a too infrequent journey for me) and was eyeing the morello cherries and going back and forth on whether to grab some. Alas, I didn't. Oh well, next time. My Mom's birthday is mid-January. Perhaps that'll be the occasion for it.

I spent a good amount of time tonight looking for the decorations to try to mimic those used in the picture for the pine cone cake in "Patisserie". The whole cake is sprayed with chocolate...I've been looking for a reason to use the little Badger 250 I bought almost 3 years ago based on Wendy's recommendation.

Edited December 17, 2004 by kthull (log)

[albiston]

Dorie,

thanks for taking the time to answer our questions and clear our doubts. Your and Pierre's book has become one of my favorite, since I've started trying out the recipes. Now I always ask myself why other dessert books lack the thorough care you put in those recipes and explanations .

lemon curd: Black forest cake sounds great, though I probably won't be making it before New Year's Eve. I've had to take a pause following a few complains from my wife on the constant presence of chocolate desserts at home and what it is doing to her waistline .

[SethG]

That "pineapple" looks INSANE. Before I read your post, Kevin, I assumed you'd made it. Can't wait to see yours. (Edit: I see the photo's gone-- anyway, it looked INSANE when I could see it.)

Okay, so I'm undecided. No one seemed at all turned on by my savarin suggestion. I don't think I want to make the Black Forest Cake. We have some friends coming over Sunday, but the Black Forest Cake seems a bit too much of a production for a friendly visit on a Sunday afternoon. So I'm back to the Pave, or (and this just occurred to me) the Tarte Grenobloise.

I'm now thinking I could divide the Pave dough among an 8 x 4 pan, and one or two little mini-loaf pans (little 5-inchers). That way my 8 x 4 Pave won't be too squat. I may have to bake it a touch longer, but everything else should work, right?

Somebody decide for me, please.

Edited December 17, 2004 by SethG (log)

[Richard Kilgore]

Actually I do plan on making the Savarin sometime in the next couple of weeks. I have done nothing yet, because of time constraints and having to pull together tools, pans and chocolate supplies. I had been hunting for the size Savarin mold called for in the book, and finally found one last weekend.

[Patrick S]

Okay, so I'm undecided.  No one seemed at all turned on by my savarin suggestion.  I don't think I want to make the Black Forest Cake.  We have some friends coming over Sunday, but the Black Forest Cake seems a bit too much of a production for a friendly visit on a Sunday afternoon.  So I'm back to the Pave, or (and this just occurred to me) the Tarte Grenobloise.

I'm now thinking I could divide the Pave dough among an 8 x 4 pan, and one or two little mini-loaf pans (little 5-inchers).  That way my 8 x 4 Pave won't be too squat.  I may have to bake it a touch longer, but everything else should work, right?

Somebody decide for me, please.

←

I vote for the Pave. I don't think there's any reason why you couldn't use 8x4 pans in the place of 7.5x3.5. I'd put a bit more than half of your batter in the 8x4.

The only thing I will do differently next time I make it is use more of the caramel soaking syrup. I probably only used half of the syrup I made because I was afraid of making the cocoa cake mushy, but the cake turned out not at all mushy and I wish I had used even more for a bigger caramel taste in the cake.

[kthull]

That "pineapple" looks INSANE.  Before I read your post, Kevin, I assumed you'd made it.  Can't wait to see yours.  (Edit:  I see the photo's gone--  anyway, it looked INSANE when I could see it.)

Okay, so I'm undecided.  No one seemed at all turned on by my savarin suggestion.  I don't think I want to make the Black Forest Cake.  We have some friends coming over Sunday, but the Black Forest Cake seems a bit too much of a production for a friendly visit on a Sunday afternoon.  So I'm back to the Pave, or (and this just occurred to me) the Tarte Grenobloise.

I'm now thinking I could divide the Pave dough among an 8 x 4 pan, and one or two little mini-loaf pans (little 5-inchers).  That way my 8 x 4 Pave won't be too squat.  I may have to bake it a touch longer, but everything else should work, right?

Somebody decide for me, please.

←

Seth, since that photo was from the book (not mine) I wasn't supposed to post it...sorry for the confusion everyone.

Of course my vote is for the Grenobloise!

[lemon curd]

Both the Pave and Grenobloise are something I could try in January. I am savarin moldless so I'll pass on the savarin for now.

I'm not quite sure how I'll finish decorating my Black Forest Cake, I don't have a block of dark chocolate - only pistoles, so shavings for the top decoration like the picture might be difficult. I may pipe some dark chocolate decorations for the top (called run outs I think?), and reserve some of the whipping cream as described in the recipe.

I'm interested some time in making the cookies - kthull your hazelnut sables looked awesome! The viennese sables are another type that I'd be interested in baking.

Edited December 17, 2004 by lemon curd (log)

[Richard Kilgore]

What we won't do! I spent at least a couple of hours tonight hunting and gathering the dried stem ginger in syrup. I bought three eight ounce jars, since I think I'll make this cake more than once.

Edited to say, oops! That's enough ginger for about 25 cakes.

Edited December 18, 2004 by Richard Kilgore (log)

[Richard Kilgore]

I made the apricot-ginger cake this morning, and overbaked it noticeably. Not burned, but still overbaked. All or part of that was just lack of experience. I kept tasting for doneness with a knife and it kept on coming out moist and chocolaty. After baking it at least 20 minutes longer than I expected to, I realized (duh) that I must be sticking the knife into a chunk of chocolate. I moved the knife an inch and a half, tried again and it came out clean.

I did it in an Emile Henry earthenware loaf pan that was a little smaller (8 1/2 X 4 1/2) than called for, so I was able to also do a mini-loaf pan. Given how rich this recipe is, the small slices might work very well with a dab of whipped cream, ice cream, creme fraiche or what have you.

I'll post a photo later. I did this recipe by the book (except for the overbaking) and it is dark, dark, dark. Next I'll do Suzy's cake; the one I probably should have tried first.

[SethG]

Sorry about your cake, Richard.

I decided to make the Grenobloise tomorrow. I'll make the Pave when I get the right pan.

[lemon curd]

I just finished baking the cocoa cake for my Black Forest Cake. I used a tall 8" spring form pan and will end up putting my cake together in it as well. As my pan is slightly smaller than the suggested 8 3/4" diameter, I needed to bake the cake for longer than the recommended time.

I had one minor dilemma when making the cake (heads-up to the Pave makers as you'll find the same problem when you go to make the cocoa cake). There appears to be an error in the conversion between volume and weight for the sugar. The recipe calls for 1 1/4 cups or 150 grams of sugar (which I assumed to be granulated sugar). 1 1/4 of granulated sugar weighs closer to 250 grams. I checked a few other recipes for similar type cakes and I thought that the 250 gram amount of sugar was reasonable and it did seem to work fine. Another possibility is that the sugar type was confectioners sugar, but I checked and 1 1/4 cups of confectioners' sugar weighs closer to 130 grams. I'm curious to know what 'you' would (will?) do in this situation...

Edited December 19, 2004 by lemon curd (log)

[Richard Kilgore]

Sorry about your cake, Richard.

I decided to make the Grenobloise tomorrow.  I'll make the Pave when I get the right pan.

←

Don't feel too sorry. It's still quite good, and better today than yesterday. I'll look forward to seeing your Grenobloise.

[SethG]

I thought the Grenobloise was really sensational. It is an over-the-top dessert. The (really great) cocoa crust, plus the creamy ganache, plus the caramel-coated pecans add up to a dessert that is almost unbearably good. My wife found it too rich and couldn't eat more than a few bites. This is a problem I'll continue to face, I fear, as I continue to work my way through the book. I love desserts that showcase rich, dark chocolate-- but my wife is not as big a fan. She prefers things more toward the milk chocolate end of the spectrum.

Another problem I continue to struggle with is that I tend to snap some photos quickly, just as I'm about to serve dessert, and then I later discover that the pictures just don't do justice to the dish. Here's my best shot of the Grenobloise:

You'll have to take my word on this, but the caramel and nuts are covering a perfect, shiny ganache. I'm very happy with how that came out.

I'm inexperienced at making caramel, and I had a little trouble with it here, although it worked out fine. Dorie doesn't say anything in the recipe about the dangers of crystalization and how to avoid it. I had a couple lumpy caramel crystals at the end of the process but they were easy to remove, so it was no big deal. I also found that my sugar took a long time to melt, for some reason, and by the time it melted my cream had cooled enough that I had massive clumpage when I poured the cream into the hotter caramel. Dorie warns about this, and says all will smooth out as you heat and stir, but I found that this required quite a bit of effort and acutually took several minutes, not the seconds she predicts. Again, I think my ingredients were cooler than they should have been, although I don't know how it happened.

My caramel at the end was lighter in color than the caramel in the book. I'm guessing I should have browned it longer before I added the cream. But it tasted great, so whatever.

The caramel-covered toasted pecans are really a revelation. I think they could make a dessert all by themselves.

[Richard Kilgore]

That tart looks great, Seth. I'll have to try that.

Here's an image of the the Apricot-Ginger Cake from yesterday.

[kthull]

Seth, it does take practice to get your caramel groove. This recipe is one of the few caramels I've done that has worked very well for me. Others clump or crystallize badly on me and it can get really frustrating. Just the other day, I went through three batches of caramel on a cookie recipe before finally deciding to strain it and move on.

I'm glad you liked it. I share your opinion on the over-the-top-ness and have eaten loads of that topping plain. When I pre-slice the tart and then top it, I only go through about 3/4 of the caramel pecans. And I don't think there's a dessert out there that's too rich for me.

[Patrick S]

Seth and Richard, once again your creations look lovely. Hopefully after the holidays I can jump back in here!