Marlene's Kitchen Renovation

[GordonCooks]

Given the scope of the project and the existing set-up, I'd consult a kitchen designer or architect for advice. Yabu Pushelberg and IIxIV are up your way.

[winesonoma]

Yes it is the finishing the granite. Round overs, polishing, etc. Cutting is easy with a diamond blade grinder.

[Marlene]

It's 5 weeks until we move into this house. I met with the contractor last week who did this kitchen. (He happens to be the current owners son, which doesn't hurt)

We're going to do one of two things. I'll either leave the 30 inch cooktop in place and remove the drawers below to put in a wall oven. Or we'll take the cooktop, drawers out, cut the granite and put in a slide in range. We've determined that gas is too much of a problem to get to where I need it.

Over where the table is currently, we've determined that we can build a 4x6 island there with power. The power will come from an outlet on the wall, and we'll run it under the tiles to the island, so we don't have to go through the ceiling to do so. The drawers from over near the cook top will be reused in the island.

I should have the actual plans for this today or tomorrow.

[snowangel]

Are you going to wait until you've moved in and cooked on the cooktop before you make a decision about replacing it with a slide-in?

[Marlene]

No, I'll need to decide before I move. That way, all the work will be done by the time I move in. Even if I keep an electric cooktop there, I'd change out the one that's currently there. It's very worn, so I'd replace it with a new one. The problem with the 30 inch Miele cooktop is that the burners are kind of small, just like that Miele wall oven is on the small side.

The only concern I have about putting a slide in range in is spoiling the line of the kitchen were everything else is built in. I believe the slide in will sit a little higher than the countertop and will protude past the cabinets a bit. Yes, I can live with it, but then again, I'm picky that way.

[Safran]

No, I'll need to decide before I move.  That way, all the work will be done by the time I move in.  Even if I keep an electric cooktop there, I'd change out the one that's currently there.  It's very worn, so I'd replace it with a new one.  The problem with the 30 inch Miele cooktop is that the burners are kind of small, just like that Miele wall oven is on the small side.

The only concern I have about putting a slide in range in is spoiling the line of the kitchen were everything else is built in.  I believe the slide in will sit a little higher than the countertop and will protude past the cabinets a bit. Yes, I can live with it, but then again, I'm picky that way.

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Marlene, you're quite right about doing the changes before moving in. As for Miele...well...

Here in Ottawa there is an excellent appliance store offering high end stuff. I'm sure there must be something similar where you are. Go in with your measurements and have them give you a hand. You are opting for electric - remember that not all electric cooktops are equal. Some are stronger than others, some have the bridge element (nice for fish poachers and roasting pans). These high end appliances also can be adjusted more readily. You do not want something jutting out - your eye will set on it constantly. Happy shopping, you lucky girl!!!!

Had you thought of removing the Miele and micro and having a double oven installed there? Your microwave could perhaps be put in the island??

Edited February 22, 2005 by Safran (log)

[snowangel]

No, I'll need to decide before I move.  That way, all the work will be done by the time I move in.  Even if I keep an electric cooktop there, I'd change out the one that's currently there.  It's very worn, so I'd replace it with a new one.  The problem with the 30 inch Miele cooktop is that the burners are kind of small, just like that Miele wall oven is on the small side.

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Oh, Marlene, you're taking all of the fun out of it. Move, rennovate, hold down and job and maintain a family life all at the same time, like I did.

Can the contractor go with you when you go appliance shopping?

[Marlene]

So here's where I'm at:

The island will be 6 X 4 1/2 . On one side will be a utility drawer, two pot drawers and a pull out bar.

the other side will have 4 utility drawers and two cupboard. The island will have power.

We are still tossing the slide in vs wall oven option around. The problem with the wall oven is two fold.

1) the transformer box for the cooktop is against the wall and is quite large. I'd have to relocate that somehow. There's also a breaker panel there which all the appliances are wired to. With a wall oven, I'd have to unscrew the thing everytime to be able to pull it out if I needed to get at that box. With a slide in, I'd just have to pull the range out.

Now if I could just get over my aversion to having things stick out, i'd just bite the bullet and go with the slide in. The contractor is pricing it both ways for me, and that will probably decide it for me.

One week to close.

[winesonoma]

So here's where I'm at:

The island will be 6 X 4 1/2 .  On one side will be a utility drawer, two pot drawers and a pull out bar.

the other side will have 4 utility drawers and two cupboard.  The island will have power.

We are still tossing the slide in vs wall oven option around.  The problem with the wall oven is two fold. 

1) the transformer box for the cooktop is against the wall and is quite large.  I'd have to relocate that somehow.  There's also a breaker panel there which all the appliances are wired to.  With a wall oven, I'd have to unscrew the thing everytime to be able to pull it out if I needed to get at that box.    With a slide in, I'd just have to pull the range out. 

Now if I could just get over my aversion to having things stick out, i'd just bite the bullet and go with the slide in.  The contractor is pricing it both ways for me, and that will probably decide it for me.

One week to close.

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Don't know the code in your area but here you can't cover that box. Must always be accessable at all times. Extreme fire hazard if you can't get to it. What do you say Daddy-A

[Daddy-A]

Now if I could just get over my aversion to having things stick out, i'd just bite the bullet and go with the slide in. 

Build a bridge and get over it Marlene!

This is the range I have. It's a slide-in and the "intrusion" into the kitchen is minimal. You also typically get a bigger oven with a range than with a wall oven ... unless of course the wall oven is wider, like 36". (duh!)

Re: the sub-panel for the cooktop. Can it be moved into a neighbouring cabinet? That's usually how I plan it ... makes it simpler down the road. Keep in mind that pulling out a slide-in range is no simple task either. Not as difficult as a wall oven, but challenging nonetheless.

A.

[Marlene]

Now if I could just get over my aversion to having things stick out, i'd just bite the bullet and go with the slide in. 

Build a bridge and get over it Marlene!

This is the range I have. It's a slide-in and the "intrusion" into the kitchen is minimal. You also typically get a bigger oven with a range than with a wall oven ... unless of course the wall oven is wider, like 36". (duh!)

Re: the sub-panel for the cooktop. Can it be moved into a neighbouring cabinet? That's usually how I plan it ... makes it simpler down the road. Keep in mind that pulling out a slide-in range is no simple task either. Not as difficult as a wall oven, but challenging nonetheless.

A.

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It could be Arne. There are reach in cabinets to the right of the cooktop and drawers as you're looking at it. There is a space of 18 inches between the wall and where the cabinet starts, so it could go there,but then I'd have a hole in my cabinet back wall. yeah, yeah, no one else will see it but me.

[Marlene]

Here's a question my husband raised that I don't know the answer to. Besides moving the cooktop transformer box for the cooktop, I'm under the impression from the contractor that the subpanel for the rest of the kitchen could stay where it is if I go with a slide in range. The question Don wants to know is, why would it matter whether it's a wall oven or slide in range. Won't it be too hot regardless, and should the subpanel be moved for safety reasons?

[Daddy-A]

Here's a question my husband raised that I don't know the answer to.  Besides moving the cooktop transformer box for the cooktop, I'm under the impression from the contractor that the subpanel for the rest of the kitchen could stay where it is if I go with a slide in range.  The question Don wants to know is, why would it matter whether it's a wall oven or slide in range.  Won't it be too hot regardless, and should the subpanel be moved for safety reasons?

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Good question Don ... and the answer is no The reason the sub-panel would be moved (in the case of the wall-oven) has nothing to do with heat ... it's access, and in some cases space. Ovens and Ranges are well-insulated enough that what little heat escapes them isn't enough to do any dammage to a subpanel.

I'm guessing that the contractor's logic is that removing a wall oven requires undoing screws, removing the oven door (optional, but your back will thank you) and then lifting the oven out of the opening and onto a protective surface.

Most slide-in ranges will simply slide out like a regular free-standing range. Provided the subpanel fits bhind the slide-in range without interfering, the contractor may be concluding that it's simple enough to move the range if need be.

A.

[Marlene]

Thanks Arne. Yes, that's exactly the rationale my subcontractor is giving me

[Marlene]

Thoughts on this range? Dacor

[Daddy-A]

Thoughts on this range?  Dacor

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That's the Millenum Electric right? Full disclosure: I own a Dacor range, and really like their product all-round. While I don't sell it, I often recommend it to my clients.

The difference between the Milleneum & the Preference IIRC is cosmetic. Dacor has a great convection, and my clients tell me they like the Ceran top.

Good choice.

A.

[Marlene]

Yes that's the millenia. Although I'm now told by my contractor I could get gas to the area so I'd get the Dacor Dual Fuel range if I went that route this one dacor dual fuel

[Daddy-A]

Yes that's the millenia.  Although I'm now told by my contractor I could get gas to the area so I'd get the Dacor Dual Fuel range if I went that route  this one dacor dual fuel

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That's a no-brainer Marlene. If you gan get gas ... dual fuel all the way!

A.

[Marlene]

I like this duel fuel one, particularly as it has a gas broiler, something most other duel ranges don't seem to offer.

Hmmm. I can't tell from the website whether this is a slide in model or whether it's available as a slide in. Based on that question, I think I may have decided!

[andiesenji]

Here where I live, the electrical panels have to be a "minimum of 6 feet from ANY heat source or water source and that includes any appliances such as range, oven, cooktop, microwave, dishwasher, refrigerator, washer and dryer, water heater, furnace and similar installations.

Failure to comply will result in citation and requirement that the violation be rectified within 10 days. If the violation is not remedied and emergency equipment is required for any reason the homeowner will be billed for costs and cited."

In addition any insurance coverage will be voided.

Mine was relocated from the near end of the pantry (external wall) to the far end when the oven was located 4 feet from the wall and the panel was on the other side within the 6-foot range.

When the inspector showed up he did indeed check the distances to make sure the new (tankless) water heater was more than 6 feet away from the panel.

The thing I was wondering, is, if the stove is hot, how are you going to move it in an emergency to get at the panel.

This is generally when emergencies happen and I would be concerned about it.

[Marlene]

The thing I was wondering, is, if the stove is hot, how are you going to move it in an emergency to get at the panel. 

This is generally when emergencies happen and I would be concerned about it.

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This is an excellent point.

[Daddy-A]

Hmmm.  I can't tell from the website whether this is a slide in model or whether it's available as a slide in.  Based on that question, I think I may have decided!

The 30" Epicure is definitely a slide-in. They refer to it as "self-rimming" in the specs. All the other Epicure Ranges are Free-standing (i.e. NOT slide-in). I did a training seminar with the Infrared Ceramic Gas Broiler. Sweet! That's the only regret I have with the Preference range I have. Stupid electric broiler

The thing I was wondering, is, if the stove is hot, how are you going to move it in an emergency to get at the panel. 

This is generally when emergencies happen and I would be concerned about it.

You'd simply go to the "main" panel rather than the "sub-panel" and turn it off. Regardless, in any electrical "emergency", the circuit breakers would have already blown, thus shutting of the power to the range. Emergency over. Just wait for the range to cool down and move it ... but like I said, most of the newer ranges are so well insulated that they could be moved even when running.

A.

[Marlene]

Hmmm.   I can't tell from the website whether this is a slide in model or whether it's available as a slide in.  Based on that question, I think I may have decided!

The 30" Epicure is definitely a slide-in. They refer to it as "self-rimming" in the specs. All the other Epicure Ranges are Free-standing (i.e. NOT slide-in). I did a training seminar with the Infrared Ceramic Gas Broiler. Sweet! That's the only regret I have with the Preference range I have. Stupid electric broiler

A.

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Excellent. We have a winner.

[Marlene]

Moving right along. Gas is a done deal. It's only going to be $450 to run the gas line, so gas is a given. We are going to flip the subpanel to the opposite wall just because I feel better about doing it that way.

If I order the range tomorrow, it should be here within a week.

The island will take about a month to build and install.

(all I have to do now is tell my husband how much that range costs)

[Safran]

Moving right along.  Gas is a done deal.  It's only going to be $450 to run the gas line, so gas is a given.  We are going to flip the subpanel to the opposite wall just because I feel better about doing it that way. 

If I order the range tomorrow, it should be here within a week.

The island will take about a month to build and install. 

(all I have to do now is tell my husband how much that range costs)

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Awsome, Marlene! That range is beautiful!!! When are you moving in?