Dave the Cook's Kitchen Reno On the Cheap

[forever_young_ca]

So here's a dumb question. If you chop things on butcher block, don't you get knife grooves in the surface?

Yes, I suppose you do, although they are not really that noticable. If they get so they bother you a very light sanding and oiling will take them out. However, I must admint that my current butcher block has been in use for 14 years and it has never had a sanding!

[Toliver]

The more I think about it, the stranger this ceiling thing seems. For instance:

-- the top of the light "box" is finished in that "cottage cheese" (andiesenji's term; Usually I hear it called "popcorn") style. Why do that if you're going to cover it up with a dropped grid?

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It sounds like the ceiling was a two-part job. That they sprayed ceiling "popcorn" on the light box indicates to me that it was exposed to the room at one point and they wanted to make it look "pretty" .

And other than opening a hole in the ceiling and looking inside the nether regions to see what's in there, I'd go with a portable X-ray or MRI machine.

And as long as you're going to open a hole in the ceiling to take a peek, I say rip it all down. If there are pipes or ductwork, paint it white or red and be done with it (It looks like there will be some sort of duct work since there's a duct plate/register in the ceiling. But it mave been added when the ceiling was lowered and can be 86'd and put back like it was before).

It will be interesting to see what kind of wiring they did on the fan.

[patti]

I vote for red laminate counters and butcher block on the work station you're creating with your found piece.

However, my opinion is suspect.

[fifi]

fifi finally checking in here...

First, the ceiling. Given the way construction was/is done, I seriously doubt that there is anything above that dropped ceiling than the original ceiling. When building condo's they wouldn't have gotten "cute" or done anything overly complicated. The way I see it, you can either leave it alone and maybe replace the tubes with those new ones that have a warmer light. Or you can take it down and do something else, track lights maybe. With general lighting around the perimeter, maybe. A trip to a lighting store is probably in order. You might have to do something with the popcorn stuff and that would be messy but cheap.

Counters...

I have heard all of the wild praise for granite. I just don't get it. Even though I can afford it, I... Just... Can't... Spend... That... Much... Money. I feel the same way about the Corian and Silestone and that ilk. And I really don't like the look. I find it somewhat cold. I know it is practical. It is just a personal thing and I can see how some folks would love it. (I have a lot of friends that have those things.)

I have had butcher block and really liked it. I am not sure I would do a whole kitchen with it though. I don't mind the "lived in" look it aquires. I just don't go for too much of the look. That is just a personal thing.

I lived with my sister one time and she had tile. We liked it. A swipe with some clorox took care of all sorts of stains, including elderberry. The price is certainly right.

I have mostly had laminate and actually love it. The way I work in a kitchen, I have never wrecked it. I really don't cut on it or sit hot pots where they don't belong. I am probably going to stick with it for the new kitchen. I will have a marble inset in the island, though. The design possibilies are endless and that is a lot of bang for the buck. I like bang for the buck. That is what keeps me going back to it.

[fifi]

I vote for red laminate counters and butcher block on the work station you're creating with your found piece.

However, my opinion is suspect.

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I don't think your opinion is suspect at all. I kinda like it.

[winesonoma]

Beware of popcorn sprayed on ceilings. The older ones contain asbestos. They can be easily removed by spraying with water from a garden sprayer, the pump up type. get it wet then scrape it off with a wide drywall taper's knife. Very messy job but easy. Then refinish.

[andiesenji]

My thoughts on kitchen surfaces:

I WANT CORIAN My next counter in my current kitchen is going to be a soft white (bone) Corian with one big integrated sink. I know some of you think that Corian stains, but I was recently in someone's home that had a 4-year old Corian counter, and I thought it looked fine. She had few scuffs and scratches-that's all. I want a surface that looks as clean as my white laminate countertop-and I want that integrated sink-so this gets my vote for surface worth spending a lot for. It will fade into the background & you'll notice other things in the kitchen.

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My best friend Carol wanted Corian and got it when she had her kitchen remodeled 3 years ago.

It is beautiful. However, 2 months after the remodel was finished she had a Christmas party.

She has a lot of Holiday decorations, including pottery cookie jars shaped like santa, snowmen, trees, etc.

Unfortunately a lot of these have a rough surface on the bottom or in a ring around the bottom and this is to Corian as a diamond is to glass. As they were pushed around on the long counter between her kitchen and family room they dug into the surface and in places it was so deep that it could not be refinished on site.

The entire counter had to be removed, taken to a shop and wet sanded, polished and sealed. The cost was pretty steep, almost as much as simply replacing it would have been.

Now she has glass cutting boards, not for cutting, but for placing casseroles, clay bakers, or anything that has a rough bottom, anytime she is going to be cooking. It kind of spoils the overall look which was the reason she wanted it to begin with. She says that had she known about this problem she would have opted for granite. She thought the Corian would be "warmer".

Oh yes, it will stain, particularly if a ripe tomato happens to roll behind the blender, out of sight and remains there for several days until a general cleaning occurs, during which it has broken down a bit and imparted its color to the Corian. Fortunately the blender lives in that spot on a permanent basis and covers the spot.

I plop hot pans down wherever I happen to be or want the pan to be so I need something that will tolerate hot cast iron or whatever.

[andiesenji]

Incidentally, very late last night on House Hunters on HGTV they showed people looking at a 1950s built house that they eventually purchased.

It had a dropped ceiling with metal grid and plastic diffusion panels with florescent lights above it in the kitchen and family room that had been installed in the 1970s. Since the man buying the house was quite tall, (and the ceiling was too low for his comfort) he lifted one of the panels and looked to see what was above it and saw that there was a solid ceiling from which the lights and the ceiling grid was hung. The agent said that it would be simple to remove the grid and lights so they made an offer on the house.

When they showed the house three months after the couple had moved in, they had removed the grid and light fixtures and installed neat track lighting that was 12 volt, very economical, some on the track itself and some suspended from a single cable from the tracks. The tracks were not straight, they were undulating and looked like they were modular in sections so they could probably be configured in any position. In one section that extended into the family room over a C-shaped counter they had installed, the trac was in an arc that followed the shape of the C.

He mentioned that although florescent lighting is inexpensive to operate, the 12 volt system is even less and his wife likes having the pendent lights over the areas where she does much of her work.

(They had also installed the same type of lighting in the bathrooms to replace the outmoded "can in the ceiling" spots. He mentioned that the electrician showed him places where those old recessed lights had actually scorched the surrounding material because someone had put in light bulbs that were too high a wattage.)

I know this particular episode has aired before but I didn't pay much attention to the ceiling the first time. Just thought the overall look was very spiffy.

[andiesenji]

I found this link on the HGTV site

12 volt track lighting

[fifi]

Beware of popcorn sprayed on ceilings. The older ones contain asbestos. They can be easily removed by spraying with water from a garden sprayer, the pump up type. get it wet then scrape it off with a wide drywall taper's knife. Very messy job but easy. Then refinish.

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Good point. However, if the place was built in '78, asbestos is pretty unlikely. Asbestos was phased out around '72 or earlier, even in industrial applications. Anyway, using a wet removal method is a good idea anyway. You don't want to be breathing that stuff.

[Fat Guy]

Dave, can you give us another measurement on that space where you're going to put the worktable, as compared to the size of the worktable?

[marie-louise]

I don't think your opinion is suspect at all. I kinda like it.

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That's what I'd do, too. Or... white counters & red appliances-like a new KitchenAid mixer.

PS The suspense is killing me about this ceiling!

[andiesenji]

Regarding the counter tops. Dave, how tall are you?

Scroll down to the bottom of this page for

butcher block counters at Lumber Liquidators.

Their prices are way below any other place. note that instead of pricing by the square foot, they have it in 8 ft and 12 ft lengths, and $286.00 for 12 feet of counter top is a bargain, even if it is unfinished.

The wood is thick enough that you can drill into it to take large dowels then glue two blocks together with a bar clamp to make a wider table. That is how they did my center island.

If you need smaller pieces, you can check their "Odd Lot Specials" as they sell pieces left over from larger jobs.

Of course you might be able to get a similar deal at a local place but go armed with a printout from this place and you might get a better deal if they want to keep your business local.

Anyway, its worth a shot.

[Marlene]

Regarding the counter tops.  Dave, how tall are you?

Scroll down to the bottom of this page for

butcher block counters at Lumber Liquidators.

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I belive our Dave is 6 ft tall.

[Mayhaw Man]

If he had hair he would be 6'1".

Edited to say that if my local Lumber Liquidators (there is one in New Orleans) has a chunk of that countertop, I am there. I can work around some things at that price.

Also, to agree with Flheat-if you shop carefully and use what you can find with some style you can get much done in the kitchen remodel dept. without breaking the bank. I looks like we are far enough under budget with ours that I am going to be able to get a new oven, and I thought that I would have to wait awhile. But, of course, at the pace I am progressing I have to wait a while anyway.

[FL Heat]

I haven't said much, because I feel like a total dweeb, as we're still mid-remodel on our kitchen (on the cheap, and a first house to boot). We chose tile for the countertops, because there is so. much. wood. in the house already and I couldn't find butcherblock that didn't make me cringe when put in the same room with oak hardwood floors and red cedar trim.

We were working from less than nothing, though--to save money, the former owner bought the kitchen from a mobile home and cut it to fit in the house. The laminate might (?) have been white at one point, but it was just yellow by the time we got to it, and had been torn in enough places that the thin wood underlayment had begun warping. The cabinets were barely cabinets. . .anyway, enough.

We shopped around and looked at everything and everywhere we could think of. The countertop tile was purchased from a tile closeout place. . .very nice-looking, neutral stuff for less than $1/sq ft. We've already laid tile in the bathroom, and haven't had much of an issue with laying it in the kitchen (other than a lack of time). I'll just put a link up, since I don't want to clutter this thread with pictures of another kitchen, of what it looked like as the tile was going down and what it looked like when sorta set up to see if everything still fit.

We left a space for a cutting board where I was doing most of the work, and you aren't able to see a second work area on the other side of the sink. You can't see the ceiling, either, mostly because I'm still a little embarrassed by it (it needs paint, badly).

At any rate, perhaps this will give you hope and encouragement--we've spent much less than $1,000 on the remodel (not including stove/microwave/fridge), mostly because we were willing to do it ourselves and because once the worst disasters had been fixed, we waited until the best possible deals came up.

And yet our half-finished kitchen is where everyone ends up sitting & talking every time people come over. Go figure.

Diana

[andiesenji]

I don't know why you think you are a dweeb. I think your cabinets and counter look nifty.

I certainly understand about the overwhelming effect of too much wood. However it does work because there are trims and edges to point up the difference.

It looks like you are doing a great job.

[snowangel]

And yet our half-finished kitchen is where everyone ends up sitting & talking every time people come over.  Go figure.

Diana

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When we moved into our former house (18 years before we sold it), a friend gave me, as a housewarming gift, a cross stitched thing that says "No matter where I serve my guests, they seem to like my kitchen best." Sort of says it all, doesn't it?

So, Dave, have you torn down the suspended ceiling yet or do I need to come down some morning after I have the kids on the bus to do it for you?

[fifi]

So, Dave, have you torn down the suspended ceiling yet or do I need to come down some morning after I have the kids on the bus to do it for you?

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Heh... I was rooting around in a storage closet while ago and spied my hacksaw in my tool carrier. I was thinking of Dave's ceiling as I carressed it lovingly.

[snowangel]

Heh... I was rooting around in a storage closet while ago and spied my hacksaw in my tool carrier. I was thinking of Dave's ceiling as I carressed it lovingly. 

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Now, fifi, really. Power tools. All the way. I ask for them, and receive them, as gifts from my beloved. My chainsaw is probably my favorite.

Paul has learned that I am of the JFDI school (just f****** do it). He no longer walks in the house and goes Oh, Shit when he sees something done past the point of no return. Good sport that he is, he just rolls up his sleeves, and starts the Menards (or Home Depot or Ace) list.

[FL Heat]

Sorry, I forget that the words in my head aren't always loud enough for everyone else to hear--I feel like a dweeb because you all have such wonderful fantastic ideas and every time I read this thread, I do a Homer Simpson "DOH!" at something that sounds like a great idea but can't be incorporated into the kitchen at this time. Some of those racks that all kinds of things can hang from are definitely on the list, though, thank you whoever it was waaaaaay upthread for the Stacks & Stacks link.

Should anyone else choose tile, though, Home Depot (and I'm sure some other fine retailers) now sell a "stain-proof" grout that isn't terribly expensive. We'll still seal it, but seeing "stain-proof" just made my heart skip a beat. The man in the orange apron explained that it's a bit thicker than other grouts, with fewer porous materials. . .blah blah blah, I stopped paying attention after that, honestly. He said there is no need to seal it. . .but that it shouldn't hurt anything if we do.

Diana

[andiesenji]

I'm trying to find a photo of my old kitchen from the late 60s and through the 70s.

My tile man was the first I ever saw that put powder dye into the grout and tested it, waiting till it was dry until he got the exact color he wanted. On the long counters on either side of the sink I had a tile that had a sort of pebbly texture on the surface in light sage green. He made the grout the color of terracotta which was the color of the mexican tile on the floor with sage green grout.

I had been solidly against tile on the counters but my dad convinced me that Bud, his tile guy, would do a bang-up job and so he did. The colored grout made all the different in the world, it never looked grungy the way so much does in a very short time.

That kitchen was even bigger than the one I have now, a total of 39 feet of counter space, a huge range,(photo in my public album), two refrigerators and an enormous round table on a pedestal that went through the floor into the ground with 8 seats that hung from the frame under the table itself. I loved that table, it was so easy to clean under it, (after evicting the great danes that thought it was the coolest place in the house to sleep) and if I had been able to get it out of the place I would have taken it with me when I sold the house. However the people who bought it also thought it was neat and it was one of the reasons they wanted the house.

They wanted my range too but I was not about to part with that.

Edited October 16, 2004 by andiesenji (log)

[marie-louise]

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Oh my God, this stove is beautiful. Do you still cook on this???

PS Where is Dave today? Tearing down that ceiling, I hope!

[fifi]

I had been solidly against tile on the counters but my dad convinced me that Bud, his tile guy, would do a bang-up job and so he did.  The colored grout made all the different in the world, it never looked grungy the way so much does in a very short time.

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I forgot to mention that the tile I am considering for the new house is the new stain resistant grout stuff with color added. I had that on my tile floors in the previous house and it was marvelous. I wouldn't hesitate to use tile in the new kitchen, but the look may not work and I will probably revert to laminate. I haven't gotten to those details with my designer yet.

[Mayhaw Man]

Andiesenji,

Is that an O'Keefe and Merritt or a Chambers? It's gorgeous. I am in the same boat as you. I can't part with it, but we have decided to add a swell electric oven to the mix. The oven in our old, but beautiful O'Keefe and Merritt (like # 7) works beautifully and fits both the old house and our style sensibilities perfectly. But it gets really hot in the summer and takes a very long time to cool down-hence the electric oven addition.

Edited to say that I would have just taken a shot of mine, but I am sure that you don't need to see it buried in construction debris. It looks very sad right now.