Café Gray - Closed Now, But 2009...

[Fat Guy]

Fat Guy, who is Tony Fortuna?

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Tony Fortuna was the Maitre d' and manager at Lespinasse when it first opened, and is now a restaurateur in his own right (Lenox, on the Upper East Side). He's also a close friend of Gray Kunz. He told the New York Times recently, "I kept telling him [Kunz] to do something, like Jean-Georges did with Jo Jo when he left Lafayette."

More about Tony Fortuna: http://www.lenoxroom.com/fortuna.html

[Pan]

Thanks, FG! "Tip well and prosper." Nice slogan! Seems like he cares about his employees (or at least wants people to think he does).

[oakapple]

A friend and I had dinner at Café Gray Friday night. It was a 5:30pm pre-theatre dinner, but we reserved only on Monday. Even when we left at around 7:00pm, the restaurant was not yet full.

At first, we were seated near a family with young children. (I can't comprehend taking small children to such a place, but one sees it all the time.) They were well enough behaved, but to be on the safe side we asked to be moved. The staff offered us a nice table for two right next to the kitchen area, and this worked out perfectly. Service overall was top-notch.

So many people have recommended the mushroom risotto and the braised short ribs, so I ordered them. These dishes are indeed delicious, but they are also the most expensive items on the menu. After each of us had had a martini, a glass of wine, an appetizer, an entrée, and a cup of coffee, the bill had come to over $200 with tax and tip. This is not an unreasonable sum to pay for dinner at a nice restaurant in New York, but the city has better bets for that amount of money.

Some people love the space at Café Gray, and others hate it. After reading so many of the "hate it" posts, I'd expected something a lot worse. Café Gray is lovely, although the point of exposing the kitchen still eludes me. We had a nice time, but we were not transported. Putting such an elaborate place in the middle of a shopping mall looks like a gamble, and I'm not yet prepared to say whether it has paid off.

[Fat Guy]

The risotto is the most expensive appetizer at $19, the reason being that it's the one dish with a significant truffle kick (as well as all those wild mushrooms). Appetizers begin at $11 for oxtail consomme with sherry and raviolini, $12 for the Cafe Gray salad, and $13 for lobster chowder with mussels, crabmeat, and lovage oil (a wonderful dish). The short rib is tied for most expensive entree at $34 (same as the warm lobster salad). It has a high food cost because as I understand it it's an entire set of short ribs with all the bones, sinew, etc., carefully removed, that is then shaped around a single bone so as to give the appearance of a single paleolithic short rib. Entrees begin at $24 for rice-crusted fluke with spinach and preserved lemons (based loosely on the red-rice crusted snapper that was often on the Lespinasse menu). A conservative food order -- not the cheapest, but economy-oriented -- of lobster chowder ($13), fluke ($24), and apple croustade for dessert ($13) gets you a very strong three course meal for $50. If you aim at the high end of the menu and go for risotto ($19), short rib ($34), and cheese ($16) you're talking about $69 as the ceiling for three courses from the menu -- still cheaper than, say, Gramercy Tavern at $72 prix fixe for three courses (plus $8-$10 supplement if you want lobster or foie gras). What you do with alcohol and such is of course going to make a big difference to the bottom line, at most any restaurant.

[robert40]

New York Magazine.

Link below to review.

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/food/r...0511/index.html

[jeffperez62]

In New York Magazine a few months ago there was an article about the equipment they use to clean the kitchen, in particular, a small "buffing" machine to clean the griddles, flattops , stoves and other stainless steel equipment. Does anyone recall or have this article still? I'm trying to remember the name of that little buffer. And if I recall, they said it could be found at home depot.

[alanamoana]

the actual "buffer" is a sander. it's just your regular makita brand sander.

[nick.kokonas]

also, that article, or one very similar, appeared in Gourmet.

And it is just a normal sander...

[Nathan]

Bruni reviews C.G. in a review that concentrates on the food (surprise!)...he gives it two stars and sounds like he thinks it should be three....couple great lines (Kunz is Terrence Mallick)

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/15/dining/15REST.html

Edited December 15, 2004 by Nathan (log)

[Fat Guy]

I'm surprised Frank Bruni fired so quickly with this review. The restaurant only opened in October and just opened for lunch about a week ago. He seemed to have few objections to the food, thinking much of it brilliant. His primary complaints seemed to be about service, and indeed the service needs work. In such a situation, the best move is to wait another month or two and see if service improves. Now a restaurant that is so clearly in the three-star genre is going to be saddled with the same two-star rating as Sripraphai for a year or more. It hardly seems right.

He's also just wrong about the crumble. It's a delightful dessert combining the silky lusciousness of chocolate with the crunch of oatmeal and the tartness of cranberry. The pastry department at Cafe Gray is one of the best in New York -- Chris Broberg, the unnamed (by Frank Bruni) pastry chef, probably receives more marriage proposals from customers (women and men) than any other guy in New York -- and he's okay looking but he's no Jude Law; it's all about the desserts. And you know, I have no problem if Frank Bruni doesn't like a dessert and can explain himself, but all he says is "the chocolate, cranberry and oatmeal crumble is to be avoided." Maybe a Craig Claiborne or a Mimi Sheraton has the stature and credibility to dismiss a dish in the pages of the New York Times without explanation, but Frank Bruni needs to work up to that for, at this rate, about fifty more years.

[foodexile]

He's also just wrong about the crumble. It's a delightful dessert combining the silky lusciousness of chocolate with the crunch of oatmeal and the tartness of cranberry. The pastry department at Cafe Gray is one of the best in New York -- Chris Broberg, the unnamed (by Frank Bruni) pastry chef, probably receives more marriage proposals from customers (women and men) than any other guy in New York -- and he's okay looking but he's no Jude Law; it's all about the desserts. And you know, I have no problem if Frank Bruni doesn't like a dessert and can explain himself, but all he says is "the chocolate, cranberry and oatmeal crumble is to be avoided." Maybe a Craig Claiborne or a Mimi Sheraton has the stature and credibility to dismiss a dish in the pages of the New York Times without explanation, but Frank Bruni needs to work up to that for, at this rate, about fifty more years.

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I understand what you're saying, but do you object to Bruni saying he just liked something without explaining why?

Just want to make sure you're not being unfair to Bruni simply because his assessment of CG differs from yours.

[Pan]

Foodexile, would it be inappropriate if Fat Guy or someone else were to argue that a critic has a greater obligation to explain his/her negative opinion than his/her positive opinion? Though, honestly, I wouldn't agree with that point of view.

Maybe we should discuss this more in the Bruni thread.

[Fat Guy]

do you object to Bruni saying he just liked something without explaining why?

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Of course. Just off the top of my head, I recall taking him to task for insufficient explanation of why he liked the steak at V. I also happened to agree with that assessment.

[oakapple]

Now a restaurant that is so clearly in the three-star genre is going to be saddled with the same two-star rating as Sripraphai for a year or more. It hardly seems right.

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I can't claim Fat Guy's expertise, and I've had only one visit to Café Gray, but two stars felt like the right rating.

One way of looking at it is by comparison to other restaurants in the genre. In the last several months, I've dined at Blue Hill Stone Barns, rm, Danube, Gotham Bar & Brill, Babbo, March, and Montrachet. All but Montrachet are currently carrying three stars, and Montrachet was at three until its controversial demotion earlier this year. I'd recommend any of the above restaurants over Café Gray. If they were correctly rated at three stars, Café Gray gets two in my book.

I'm not suggesting I didn't like Café Gray—indeed, I fully expect to be back. But what Gray Kunz is offering feels like a two-star experience, given what two stars used to mean before the Sripraphai review.

I'm sure Frank Bruni stands by the two stars he awarded Sripraphai, but we need to view that rating as both an anomaly and a grievous error, rather than using it as a measuring stick. Otherwise, any restaurant that is clearly better than Sripraphai would have to get three or four stars, which would be ridiculous.

Edited December 16, 2004 by oakapple (log)

[RobinsonCuisine]

I also agree with the rating from Mr. (today's word is "skews") Bruni, although I had considered that it might get only one.

From talking to and reading of others who have dined at Cafe Grey, there seems to be a direct correlation to the dining experience that depends on knowing Kunz personally or of him knowing that you are a member of the restaurant profession, i.e. those whom he has taken a personal interest in come away with glowing reports while those who are "regular Joes" leave disapointed and its a huge gulf between the known and unknown. This is the fault of Kunz, certainly, but mostly his front of house. I believe he is making changes to correct this, but it is a problem that was apparent before the doors opened and should have been fixed at that time.

I enjoyed the food at Cafe Grey for the most part, but not my dining experience. I expected much more considering the extensive/exhaustive training period the staff had gone through prior to opening, the reputation of the management and Kunz's background.

[Pan]

[...]

From talking to and reading of others who have dined at Cafe Grey, there seems to be a direct correlation to the dining experience that depends on knowing Kunz personally or of him knowing that you are a member of the restaurant profession, i.e. those whom he has taken a personal interest in come away with glowing reports while those who are "regular Joes" leave disapointed and its a huge gulf between the known and unknown.[...]

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If that's true, that's despicable and inexcusable.

[RobinsonCuisine]

[...]

From talking to and reading of others who have dined at Cafe Grey, there seems to be a direct correlation to the dining experience that depends on knowing Kunz personally or of him knowing that you are a member of the restaurant profession, i.e. those whom he has taken a personal interest in come away with glowing reports while those who are "regular Joes" leave disapointed and its a huge gulf between the known and unknown.[...]

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If that's true, that's despicable and inexcusable.

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I don't believe it is done on purpose and certainly don't want to infer that Kunz would sanction it. Its a case where the front of house management aren't doing their job to insure that every guest is treated well so that those who are receiving special treatment (i.e Kunz personally taking charge of the table), don't stick out and every guest leaves feeling they were appreciated not just for their money, but for their company.

Another way of looking at it is that no guest should feel like they have to demand Kunz himself come to their table to insure that they receive the dining experience he wants all his guests to enjoy.

[Fat Guy]

Kunz wasn't at Cafe Gray the night I dined there, and we ordered regular three-course meals from the regular menu. I'm sure we were in the computer as VIPs, but since the service we received wasn't particularly good I doubt we benefited terrifically from special status (although we did receive some extra desserts). But in evaluating Cafe Gray by the standards of a two-month-old restaurant at this scale and level of ambition, I would hardly call the service anything but "about what I'd expect, maybe a little worse."

The food, on the other hand, is superb, resting somewhere between three and four star food on an aggregate basis (we already know a couple of things on the menu are, historically, "four-star dishes," and there are several other items at that level as well). What Frank Bruni should have done in that situation -- and it seems he felt the same way about the food as I do -- is write a "Diner's Journal" piece saying "fabulous food, service needs work" and then do the review in a couple of months, at which point if the service kinks aren't worked out it's entirely reasonable to dock the place a star (the clear baseline for Cafe Gray being three stars). But to run a review when the restaurant has been open for lunch for like a week and still isn't serving hot food at breakfast -- and to run that review, apparently, based on visits that never even included lunch -- is premature. New York Times reviews aren't dynamic. The star rating Cafe Gray received this week will be an albatross for, most likely, a minimum of a year.

I'm sorry to say that, at most every restaurant in the world above the level of a McDonald's, there is "a direct correlation to the dining experience that depends on knowing [the chef] personally or of him knowing that you are a member of the restaurant profession . . . ." That being said, I think RobinsonCuisine overstates the case when he declares categorically that "those whom he has taken a personal interest in come away with glowing reports while those who are 'regular Joes' leave disappointed and its a huge gulf between the known and unknown." I have not seen a body of evidence to support such a damning claim.

[sammy]

Asimov did a Diners Journal piece in October.

Bruni has reviewed several other restaurants after being open only a few months, why should Cafe Gray be different?

My guess is that if Bruni really thought Cafe Gray had the potential you speak of, he would have waited a bit longer.

[Jinmyo]

I think Bruni should have waited in those cases as well.

[R Washburn]

New York Times reviews aren't dynamic. The star rating Cafe Gray received this week will be an albatross for, most likely, a minimum of a year.

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I don't think 2-stars will hurt more than the Chef's pride. The unfair 3-star review of Daniel certainly didn't hurt business there, although it crushed Boulud. I am sure Kunz will get his 3-stars at some future date.

In my personal estimation, Cafe Gray is one of the best restaurants in NY at it's particular pricepoint. I am surprised to read so many negative reports. Is the kitchen really inconsistent, or is it just a matter of taste?

[Fat Guy]

Thanks for pointing to that "Diner's Journal" piece by Asimov, Sammy. I either missed it when it came out or, worse, forgot it!

Although I haven't plotted a graph of when restaurants have opened and been reviewed, I don't think it would be particularly relevant anyway. Every restaurant is different and deserves to be taken on its own terms and in its context. Some places get up to speed very quickly on the service front; others take longer. Some have kitchens that start slowly, whereas others are impressive out of the gate. No successful restaurant, however, is as good in its first few months as it is going to be after a year, so there is an element of timing that is relevant to the choice of when to launch a review. I think, in particular, when a critic thinks the food at a restaurant is terrific (and I think there can be no serious question that the review in question implies plenty of three-star food) but also thinks that the overall dining experience is not up to snuff, that's the time to say "they need a little more time." And while no chef should be allowed to rest on his laurels, I do think some benefit of the doubt is appropriate when dealing with a chef who has a track record. You can't wait forever, of course, because eventually you have to recognize when a temporary condition is becoming a chronic one, but we're not talking about months and months here -- we're talking about approximately two months (I think October 7 was the opening date maybe?).

[Pan]

[excerpt] I'm sorry to say that, at most every restaurant in the world above the level of a McDonald's, there is "a direct correlation to the dining experience that depends on knowing [the chef] personally or of him knowing that you are a member of the restaurant profession . . . ."

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Acknowledged, but I think RobinsonCuisine's point is that the extras for friends of the house and such should be over and above already terrific service. And it was in response to the allegation that "regular Joes" are being treated like chopped liver that I reacted as I did. Now, why people wouldn't treat chopped liver with loving appreciation is another question.

[robyn]

I'm sorry to say that, at most every restaurant in the world above the level of a McDonald's, there is "a direct correlation to the dining experience that depends on knowing [the chef] personally or of him knowing that you are a member of the restaurant profession . . . ."

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I don't think that statement is a universal truth. And - in my experience - in great places - it's more the exception than the general rule. As for those places where it is the truth (and I've had the bad luck to dine in a few of those places) - well those places simply aren't great places. We're talking for the most part here about "destination restaurants" - and if the only people those places treat well are a small percentage of customers - well they shouldn't be in anyone's book of "destinations". If a high-class chef doesn't want to treat all of his customers very well - he should open a catering service instead of a restaurant. Robyn

[RobinsonCuisine]

I'm sorry to say that, at most every restaurant in the world above the level of a McDonald's, there is "a direct correlation to the dining experience that depends on knowing [the chef] personally or of him knowing that you are a member of the restaurant profession . . . ."

Agreed. But it shouldn't be obvious. Every guest wants to feel that they are just as important to the owner as the next.

Again, I don't think Kunz wants the service at his restaurant to be so disproportionate.

CG had gone through months of private parties and several weeks of friends and family before the official opening. Service has been confused and irratic with no sign of improvement during the entire process.

The Times routinely reviews new restaurants after two-three months from the official opening. It may be unfair to review so soon, but it would be more unfair to give extra time to some and less to others before taking them to task.